What do you think is holding up the Welker signing?

[Ivan]

Again, you're not understanding what I've been saying. Welker's a slot receiver yes..who's lining up more than he should be as a split end. Welker hasn't got the frame or speed to play split end, yet he lines out wide for much of the game matched up on bigger, more physical corners.

When we play aggressive and better defenses, this hurts us.

Now when you talk about replacing his production you look at who lines up in the slot and can the production over the middle be replaced or sustained? Well we have Gronkowski, Hernandez (and I do think Edelman could do a job for us when asked).....if you resign Branch as your veteran with experience and bring in a player that is a more legit down the field threat, then I think our offense would be absolutely fine.

The team's issue is all we have is the middle of the field! In that way, Welker's inability to go wide and play as a traditional split end isn't highlighted enough.

Randy Moss was one of the all time greats yet he could never do what Welker does. The issue isn't getting rid of Welker it is adding a downfield WR. they need both and getting rid of one just makes them worse. No other receiver can get open as quickly as Welker does, and that includes the great TE's, who we also need. Welker saves Brady from taking a beating by getting open instantly, and you guys simply don't understand how important that is, and you flat out refuse to acknowledge how good he is and keep insisting he can be replaced, it is ignorant.

 

[Ivan]

Ok sure...

I think you're the one who plays Madden, bro.

My arguments are legit...When has Welker run any routes that threaten the deep half of the field???

You pay wide receivers big money to play WIDE RECEIVER NOT INSIDE RECEIVER.

I have never played fantasy foootball or video games, both are irrelevant to real football.

You pay receivers to be productive, it doesn't matter where they line up, and there really aren't any receivers more productive than Welker, so you don't know what the hell you are talking about.



You want to see pissed off, take a look at the greatest QB to ever play the game if they get rid of his best receiver, he'll be furious and won't be quiet about it. And he knows one million times more about football than you idiots ever will.

 

[Ivan]

Ok sure...

I think you're the one who plays Madden, bro.

My arguments are legit...When has Welker run any routes that threaten the deep half of the field???

You pay wide receivers big money to play WIDE RECEIVER NOT INSIDE RECEIVER.

First you crap all over Gronkowski and now welker, you are a moron and the first person to go on my ignore list. I have no use for fantasy geeks.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I wonder if the Pats don't want to commit to Welker before seeing what they can do in Free Agency and that's what's holding up the process.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Getting a little out of hand don';t you think gents?

As I said, debate nicely...there are legit arguments both ways

 

[mgteich]

Branch, Gronk and Hernandez could "easily" add 120 catches and 1500 yards to their 2011 numbers? This is easily the worst analysis of the year.

Welker is a talented player...no doubt.

But those numbers could easily be replaced by Branch, Gronkowski, Hernandez in the middle of the field.

The design of the system allowed Welker or Hernandez or Gronk (one of them) to be open on picks, rubs, seams, and crossing routes 15 yards inside the numbers.

The system and Brady's accuracy has much to do with Welker's numbers.

 

[PatsFan2]

Randy Moss was one of the all time greats yet he could never do what Welker does. The issue isn't getting rid of Welker it is adding a downfield WR. they need both and getting rid of one just makes them worse. No other receiver can get open as quickly as Welker does, and that includes the great TE's, who we also need. Welker saves Brady from taking a beating by getting open instantly, and you guys simply don't understand how important that is, and you flat out refuse to acknowledge how good he is and keep insisting he can be replaced, it is ignorant.

As Great as Welker is in the Slot he can be taken away by Elite Cover CB's. The Ravens pretty much shut him down only 53 yards for a Top Slot Reciever??? Hernandez and Gronk had more yards than him in that game. It's obvious both of them can do what he does inside the numbers. I am sure BB is weighing those factors into consideration.

 

[JackBauer]

I wonder if the Pats don't want to commit to Welker before seeing what they can do in Free Agency and that's what's holding up the process.

Do we even know that the process is being held up?

 

[Deus Irae]

Welker is a talented player...no doubt.

But those numbers could easily be replaced by Branch, Gronkowski, Hernandez in the middle of the field.

Welker had 122 catches

Gronk had 90 catches
Hernandez had 79 catches
Branch had 51 catches

Exactly how are you going to divvy up the 122 catches among them, particularly with Branch fading at this point in his career?

 

[JackBauer]

As Great as Welker is in the Slot he can be taken away by Elite Cover CB's. The Ravens pretty much shut him down only 53 yards for a Top Slot Reciever??? Hernandez and Gronk had more yards than him in that game. It's obvious both of them can do what he does inside the numbers. I am sure BB is weighing those factors into consideration.

That's one way to look at it. Another way would be that elite defenses can shut him down because we don't have outside receivers worth a damn to prevent said defenses from keying in on Welker.

 

[Ivan]

Again, you're not understanding what I've been saying. Welker's a slot receiver yes..who's lining up more than he should be as a split end. Welker hasn't got the frame or speed to play split end, yet he lines out wide for much of the game matched up on bigger, more physical corners.

When we play aggressive and better defenses, this hurts us.

Now when you talk about replacing his production you look at who lines up in the slot and can the production over the middle be replaced or sustained? Well we have Gronkowski, Hernandez (and I do think Edelman could do a job for us when asked).....if you resign Branch as your veteran with experience and bring in a player that is a more legit down the field threat, then I think our offense would be absolutely fine.

The team's issue is all we have is the middle of the field! In that way, Welker's inability to go wide and play as a traditional split end isn't highlighted enough.

UK you could not be any more wrong about this, it is the more aggressive defenses where Welker matters the most as he is the safety valve for Brady against the blitz. His ability to get open instantly and burn defenses is the counter to aggressive defenses and it is when they play teams that sit back and play soft where he has less of an impact. Take Welker away and Brady is going to take a frigging beating, just as he did in 2006 before they got him. this was the main reason Belichik went after him and it has added years to Brady's career, losing him would hurt Brady and this team horribly.

Everyone wants to see them go after WR's who can help them spread and deepen the field, but getting rid of Welker hurts them regardless of who they bring in. he has a unique skill set that literally cannot be replaced, and suggesting that Garcon or Lloyd will offset that loss is foolish. they would help in other ways no doubt but it would come at a huge cost.

 

[Elijah T.]

Branch, Gronk and Hernandez could "easily" add 120 catches and 1500 yards to their 2011 numbers? This is easily the worst analysis of the year.

Why can't anyone tell me what Welker is doing that our tight ends can't do??

When has Welker beat press-man ??

Made a sideline catch 20 yards downfield??

The system is designed to free up an inside receiver...We understand this...We also understand that Welker is often the primary in the progression right??? His catches are almost always underneath (quick ins and outs, shallow crossers) or intermediate seam routes.

Seriously, why are all the arguments to my opinion, childish name calling or stats???

Why not tell me why Welker can't be replaced?? How does he threaten a defense in a way that Hernandez, Gronk, and Branch can't??

 

[Ivan]

Getting a little out of hand don';t you think gents?

As I said, debate nicely...there are legit arguments both ways

Sorry UK but the only legit argument is if Welker wants 100 million or 15 million a year, the arguments about him as player are ridiculous and have been proven so repeatedly. Despite his ungodly production and his exceptional value as a player on this team even I would agree they shouldn't pay him as the highest paid WR in football, but if he wants Holmes money then they should do it in a heartbeat because he has more than earned it and is worth it.

This is no different than those who insisted they should have kept Bledsoe, they were 100% wrong and so are those who suggest Welker shouldn't be kept.

 

[Elijah T.]

It hasn't occured to anybody that maybe BB was anticipating Welker leaving?

That maybe he has two good, young, tight ends doing exactly what Welker does?

I wan't Welker back too...for 6 million dollars at the most.

I'm a fan of the team, not one player. Welker isn't a complete receiver. He adds nothing to the deep passing game or even the intermediate outside passing game.

We have a bunch of good players doing the same exact thing.

I'd rather have both Gronk and Hernandez for the next five years than Welker...

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."- Mark Twain

 

[Ivan]

Elijah T.
This message is hidden because Elijah T. is on your ignore list.




..................................

 

[Ivan]

Getting a little out of hand don';t you think gents?

As I said, debate nicely...there are legit arguments both ways

This like saying there is a legit argument for replacing Brady with Hoyer.


Sometimes the arguments aren't legit, this is such a case. The only legit argument comes if Welker wants ridiculous money, and so far there is no evidence of that. Until there is there is no legit argument to be made for not keeping him. 5'10 isn't a legit argument it is stupidity and should be treated as such.

 

[Elijah T.]

Elijah T.
This message is hidden because Elijah T. is on your ignore list.




..................................

What is this daycare???

Am I supposed to be sad that you ignore me?

Ok, I'm sad.

 

[JackBauer]

I wan't Welker back too...for 6 million dollars at the most.

So you're willing to pay 6mm for 120-1500 production?

Please pass the grass.

 

[Ivan]

So you're willing to pay 6mm for 120-1500 production?

Please pass the grass.

Fortunately this argument will be settled pretty quickly as the Patriots will have to make a decision on tagging him. If they tag him it settles the question of whether or not he is worth 10 million. I'm sure the Maddenites will continue to argue otherwise and they will shriek about how many Madden Lombardis they are losing out on but those of us who love real football can take solace in the knowledge that their chance of returning to the Bowl next season are greatly enhanced by Welker's presence.

 

[Elijah T.]

Welker had 122 catches

Gronk had 90 catches
Hernandez had 79 catches
Branch had 51 catches

Exactly how are you going to divvy up the 122 catches among them, particularly with Branch fading at this point in his career?

The "effect" of those numbers can be replaced.

122 catches...How many of those were over 20 yards?

How many were outside the numbers?

These things matter to an offense. We need a player who can do more than make catches 15 yards inside the numbers.

The basis of my argument is value. How much value is Welker comparitevely to other players at his position making the same amount of money?

I'm not arguing Welkers numbers or ability. He's probably the best slot receiver in the league..But do we need to pay a slot receiver 9 million with our young tight ends?