8 Crazy Facts About Sunday's Massive Broncos-Patriots Game

[BradyManny]

You couldn't be much further from the truth. However, since I wasn't talking about the religious prejudices, I'm not going to bother with this.

What prejudices are we talking about then, running QB prejudices?

 

[Deus Irae]

What prejudices are we talking about then, running QB prejudices?

It's not just running QBs, really. It's anything outside the 'box'. Remember how Aaron Rodgers took heat and had all sorts of questions leading up to the draft because he was throwing the way Tedford had taught him?

And, really, it goes beyond the QB position, but QB is the glamour spot.

 

[robbomango]

Tebow has shown the ability to hit the short pass, the medium pass and the deep pass. What Tebow has not yet shown is the ability to do that consistently. This should come as a surprise to nobody, however. QBs generally adjust to the league, as opposed to coming out as finished products.

John Elway was at 47.5% his first year
Manning was at 56.7% as a rookie. His last 9 years have all been at 66% +
Drew Brees is 10% higher this season than in his first full year.
Michael Vick's first 8 games (2 starts) had him at 44.2%. He was 62.6% last season
Aaron Rodgers, another QB who's throwing was questioned, is 6% higher this season than in his first full year, and that's after sitting for 3 years


Brady was a bit of an exception, throwing for 63.9% in his first 'full' season. He wouldn't match that again for 6 years.

As I've said before, I don't really care about Tebow, and I don't know if he'll be able to stay in the league as a starting QB. I do find, however, that people's bashing of Tebow has tended to expose prejudices on their part.

.................................:ditto:

 

[robbomango]

This is like an episode of the twilight zone, colts fans circa 2001-2007 would approve of this thread

 

[BradyManny]

It's not just running QBs, really. It's anything outside the 'box'. Remember how Aaron Rodgers took heat and had all sorts of questions leading up to the draft because he was throwing the way Tedford had taught him?

And, really, it goes beyond the QB position, but QB is the glamour spot.

I feel like my reaction to Tebow is one that is widely held.
There's two sides to it:

I don't like Tim Tebow's game. If that makes me prejudiced against QBs that can't throw the ball, so be it. But I would say I have nothing against QBs that use other means to be effective, generally speaking.

The hype surrounding Tim Tebow annoys me. But I am adamant - the overwhelming and annoying support of Tebow existed BEFORE his detractors did. Detractors, like myself, are a reaction to the overhyped mania that is Tim Tebow.

 

[BradyManny]

This is like an episode of the twilight zone, colts fans circa 2001-2007 would approve of this thread

Right. Because Tim Tebow has already accomplished everything that Tom Brady had in that timeframe. Such as win 3 Super Bowls, win multiple SB MVPs, go to Pro Bowls, pass for over 60% completion rate, etc.

Honestly, you and everyone else in here who would make such a comment do a huge disservice to Tom Brady's ability to play quarterback and lend credence to Colts fans argument by even suggesting that Tim Tebow's level of play at all reminds you of Tom Brady's from that era. If you want to say Tebow is a winner, fine. But Brady was always a quality passer.

 

[sly24]

hold up.. it says "Tom Brady doesn't have a touchdown on a passing attempt of over 30 yards this season". What about Welker's 99 yard touchdown? Unless they are talking about the ball travelling 30 yards in the air..

 

[Deus Irae]

I feel like my reaction to Tebow is one that is widely held.
There's two sides to it:

I don't like Tim Tebow's game. If that makes me prejudiced against QBs that can't throw the ball, so be it. But I would say I have nothing against QBs that use other means to be effective, generally speaking.

The hype surrounding Tim Tebow annoys me. But I am adamant - the overwhelming and annoying support of Tebow existed BEFORE his detractors did. Detractors, like myself, are a reaction to the overhyped mania that is Tim Tebow.

The reaction to Rodgers was widely held, too.

You're likely prejudiced because of more than Tebow's style, as your misguided and incorrect rant against the openly religious seemed to show. However, the fact of your prejudice against the running/throwing aspects is what I was talking about. It's just ridiculous to take such an approach when the evidence in front of you has continued to prove you wrong time and again.

And that crap about the detractors being a reaction is just that.... crap. The detractors have been around since day 1.

 

[robbomango]

hold up.. it says "Tom Brady doesn't have a touchdown on a passing attempt of over 30 yards this season". What about Welker's 99 yard touchdown? Unless they are talking about the ball travelling 30 yards in the air..

They are talking about the ball traveling 30YDS but I thought he did connect for a 30+ pass even longer maybe or maybe not

 

[BradyManny]

The reaction to Rodgers was widely held, too.

You're likely prejudiced because of more than Tebow's style, as your misguided and incorrect rant against the openly religious seemed to show. However, the fact of your prejudice against the running/throwing aspects is what I was talking about. It's just ridiculous to take such an approach when the evidence in front of you has continued to prove you wrong time and again.

And that crap about the detractors is just that.... crap.

I would doubt that I have the prejudice you're referring to. Otherwise I'd have a hard time liking Tom Brady or Robert Kraft, two guys who are on the record as having faith being very important to them.

The fact that Tebow wears his spirituality on his sleeve so much is grating for me, but it's purely obnoxious out of repetition, as anything would be. Anyone talking about anything that much on a national stage gets old quick.

What evidence is there that the running/throwing thing isn't an issue? How many QBs who suck at throwing the football have won championships?

 

[Simkin]

hold up.. it says "Tom Brady doesn't have a touchdown on a passing attempt of over 30 yards this season". What about Welker's 99 yard touchdown? Unless they are talking about the ball travelling 30 yards in the air..

Brady is wrong ALWAYS. When he throws downfield to Moss/Stallworth = its so easy blablabla
When he destroys the opposite team in medium zones=boring
short passes=system guys

if passes for 4000 yards with Doug Gabriel and Heath Evans = Manning deserves more credit for playing with bad WR as Reggie Wayne Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark

 

[fatman]

Tebow's problem is the guy can't hit the simplest of NFL throws, not that he can't throw deep.

This is ludicrous.

Even Bill Belichick disagrees with you.

 

[Deus Irae]

I would doubt that I have the prejudice you're referring to. Otherwise I'd have a hard time liking Tom Brady or Robert Kraft, two guys who are on the record as having faith being very important to them.

The fact that Tebow wears his spirituality on his sleeve so much is grating for me, but it's purely obnoxious out of repetition, as anything would be. Anyone talking about anything that much on a national stage gets old quick.

How you miss the inherent contradiction in the above paragraphs is something for you to worry about. It doesn't really interest me. As far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to be as bigoted as you wish.

What evidence is there that the running/throwing thing isn't an issue?

1-4 v. 7-1 and 4-14 v. 8-3

How many QBs who suck at throwing the football have won championships?

That depends on how far back you go, and how you define "suck at throwing". It's also a loaded question, since it assumes essentially a 0% chance of any improvement.

 

[robbomango]

I feel like my reaction to Tebow is one that is widely held.
There's two sides to it:

I don't like Tim Tebow's game. If that makes me prejudiced against QBs that can't throw the ball, so be it. But I would say I have nothing against QBs that use other means to be effective, generally speaking.

The hype surrounding Tim Tebow annoys me. But I am adamant - the overwhelming and annoying support of Tebow existed BEFORE his detractors did. Detractors, like myself, are a reaction to the overhyped mania that is Tim Tebow.

You sound like old Brady critics whom loved to pick him to shreds using similar arguments, no offense. I keep hearing this stuff about Tebow and deja vu kicks in.

I don't want to preach but this particular area is one I thought pats fans would respect. The judgement of up and coming QB's that is.

said my peace, peace

 

[ivanvamp]

I don't think anyone has ever questioned Brady's accuracy as an NFL QB once he took over for Drew.

No, but the criticism of Brady was that all he could do was "dink and dunk". And that wasn't meant as a complement....it was meant to speak of his limitations as an NFL passer.

 

[BradyManny]

You sound like old Brady critics whom loved to pick him to shreds using similar arguments, no offense. I keep hearing this stuff about Tebow and deja vu kicks in.

I don't want to preach but this particular area is one I thought pats fans would respect. The judgement of up and coming QB's that is.

said my peace, peace

Um, no.

The critics of Brady said that he was a "system QB."

The critics of Tebow say he's a terrible passer who does other things well.

The two have nothing to do with each other.

People are really, really reaching here.

 

[neuronet]

People suggesting that reactions against Tebow are biased, while the frenzy of love is free of bias, are utterly deluded.

Would you respect him if he had 'Athena Number 1' on his wrist? No. It would be laughable. THe love and "respect" for this is because people have a pro-christian bias. Don't kid yourselves.

I treat it as I would if he were pointing up at Athena. He is just another superstitious person who happens to be really good at footballl. I respect and like his game, but his religious stuff? I think it is stupid in general, and I don't make an exception because he knows how to run an option.

There should be separation of church and football, and Tebow violates that nonsectarian pact.

 

[BradyManny]

How you miss the inherent contradiction in the above paragraphs is something for you to worry about. It doesn't really interest me. As far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to be as bigoted as you wish.

Wrong. I'd get just as annoyed with an NFL player if after every drive he pronounced his atheism. It has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with the broken record that is Tim Tebow and all discourse on him.

1-4 v. 7-1 and 4-14 v. 8-3

I've watched several of the Broncos' games. Tebow sucks at passing. He's skilled at other areas of football. My opinion on him has not changed. Nor do I think a team going 7-1 with a brutally easy schedule is indicative of a shift in what makes a successful QB in this game. Eventually, the sample size will catch up with Tebow. Notably, this Sunday.

That depends on how far back you go, and how you define "suck at throwing". It's also a loaded question, since it assumes essentially a 0% chance of any improvement.

If Tebow improves - fine. That doesn't change my point. The hype surrounding him is disproportionate to what he has achieved.

 

[robbomango]

Um, no.

The critics of Brady said that he was a "system QB."

The critics of Tebow say he's a terrible passer who does other things well.

The two have nothing to do with each other.

People are really, really reaching here.

Pounding one argument home again and again is what I meant by similar. Never ending tirade covering the same ground and what was Brady's biggest attribute by the way???? and still is?

Heart, attitude, work ethic, fierce competitive nature etc etc...

I guarantee you Tebow's similar to brady in that department as for QB skills I'm not a fan of these hybrids personally.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wrong. I'd get just as annoyed with an NFL player if after every drive he pronounced his atheism. It has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with the broken record that is Tim Tebow and all discourse on him.

I don't believe you, and your history on this topic doesn't back up your claim.

I've watched several of the Broncos' games. Tebow sucks at passing. He's skilled at other areas of football. My opinion on him has not changed. Nor do I think a team going 7-1 with a brutally easy schedule is indicative of a shift in what makes a successful QB in this game. Eventually, the sample size will catch up with Tebow. Notably, this Sunday.

Keep making my point by denigrating everything. It's as if you're constitutionally incapable of fighting such an ingrained prejudice. You asked for evidence, and I gave you the only evidence that supposed to matter, if the homers here are to be believed (and you're one of those homers, after all). Now, instead of just conceding the point, you go moving those goalposts.

If Tebow improves - fine. That doesn't change my point. The hype surrounding him is disproportionate to what he has achieved.

The kid's got the second best winning percentage in the NFL this season (of QBs with significant games played), and he was a kid that was being derided as not likely to be drafted high or drafted as a QB, as likely never to take a snap as an NFL QB, as likely never to start a game as an NFL QB, as being unable to win any games as an NFL QB. He's proven those people, and yourself, wrong time and again, and that's why he's getting the hype. It's been a building thing, as should be expected.

He's earned every bit of that hype and, if he gets that Broncos team to the playoffs, he'll earn even more. If he stumbles and the Broncos miss the playoffs, the hype will die down. That's how it works. The 2007 Patriots know that all too well.