Congrats to Josh McD

[BionicPatriot]

Which offensive coach? You mean the Offensive Coordinator? So he is the one who makes blocking adjustments? He changes the routes the receivers are running? He works with the backs on blitz pickups? He just does all that alone in a bubble? He charts all the plays called and their results? You use the bench? Does that mean Cassel plays in place of Brady because he is the reserve force player drilled in all the "wartime" contingency planning?

You know, your right. But your still letting him off the hook. Our coaching staff has not changed much, why did they get the job done better with Weis? Probably because beside the fact Weis could adjust his O better, he probably worked with them better. You have an extremely fair point, yet at the same time you yourself have no explanation for Daniels lack of adjustments still. It's not the other coaches job to change the gameplan, it's his.

NEM singles out one individual on the coaching staff and screeches his hatred, ignoring the fact that there is an entire offensive staff working on making adjustments. While people are complaining about the offensive coordinator, he is standing on the sideline looking at his play sheet and choosing the next play, he shouldn't be looking at the one being run because he needs to get the call in early enough for the team to line up and allow Brady to survey the defense. Just like in war, a General or Admiral uses a staff who are all working on the problems as they develop, often making decisions and implementing them before informing the General, if he ever is informed.

First off, a O coordinator should see the field. A team has almsot half a minute to run one play, that's plenty of time to call a play. Look, a D isn't gonna change on every play. A defense will attack you, you as an offensive coordinator use the bench to COMMUNICATE with your offense, and change the game plan. He dosent have to change it up every play, just know how to attack the defense.

Sunday the Patriots used 6 WRs, 4 RB/FBs, and 2 TEs in a passing attack - who coordinated the personnel changes? Dierdoof may not be the brightest bulb doing color commentary, but he has spent time on a football field and when he comments about the job the receiver's coach is doing shuttling substitutions in and out he just might know what was going on.[/QUOTE[

Did I say our O was bad in Jax? Not at all. But a few games dosent make him good.

That much maligned Offensive Coordinator isn't in the O-line huddle pointing out defensive alignments on the in-game photographs, and he isn't huddled with the WRs discussing routes, jamming, and coverages. If nobody's "home" while you are looking for an Offensive Coordinator to lynch, it's because the entire offensive staff put together and trained by the Head Coach are doing the adjustments and I think NEM and anybody else complaining about the Offensive Coordinator's in-game adjustments are speaking from blind ignorance or willful malice.

Ok, but all a QB does is call different coverages. He rarely calls an audible to change the play, and make no buts about it, I'm not piling on McDaniels. What I am doing however, is blaming the offense for causing us games. Brady is certainly part of it. But STILL, you continue to ignore that McDaniel's job is to come up with a good attack. He sits the O on the bench, and he tells them. If need be, he has liuke 15 minutes in halftime to do this. To talk to the whole offense, that's not hard to communicate to your starters.

Charlie Weis is suddenly and mysteriously being lauded for his play calling and in-game adjustments, something that rarely occured while he was here. I suppose Tom Brady is a tool of the coaching staff when he publicly called out the team telling them they should stop free-lancing and start listening to what the coach was saying - and he didn't mean just the Head Coach.

Rarely occurred? Where the hell have you been? After the Philly game, after so many games, you heard the Boston press applaud Weis for the right in-game adjustments. At the same time, you and I know nothing about that. Are players ******* up themselves, or is McDaniels calling the wrong play? We don't know.

This club is 11-4 and in the Playoffs, thanks as much to the Offensive Coordinator as anybody else on this TEAM. NEM is a troll, and you sir can't even describe to me a simplified version of the process for making an "in-game adjustment." You can't even articulate the title of the "offensive coach" whose "freaking job" is in-game adjustments as you perceive it. Just like war, arm chair generals rant and rave from a safe distance - "to the rear harch!"

This club is 11-4, mostly due to the defense. The offense has had many halfs where they amounted to nothing. I've explained it, your just ignoring it now.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

You know, your right. But your still letting him off the hook. Our coaching staff has not changed much, why did they get the job done better with Weis?
-----
This club is 11-4, mostly due to the defense. The offense has had many halfs where they amounted to nothing. I've explained it, your just ignoring it now.

Charlie Weis' first year as an Offensive Coordinator was his 20th year in coaching, his 10th year in the Pros, and he had been a position coach for RB, WRs, and TEs by that point in his career.
Source: http://und.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/weis_charlie00.html

Josh McDaniels' first year as an Offensive Coordinator was his 8th year in coaching, his 7th year in the pros, and he was a position coach for two years for QBs only.
Source: http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=24595

I don't know how anyone can be disappointed with McDaniels' development. If people must complain about it, the burden correctly belongs on Coach Belichick's shoulders because he is the man making the decision to develop his OC inside the Weis Offensive System and train him on the the job. You claim the recent game plans/play calling have been much improved - oddly enough just as the Patriots are preparing to enter the Post-Season.
This thread discusses speculation about BB and his Coordinators: http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=46953

If you choose to credit the defense with saving the season that's fine, but this offense has been developing on many different levels as the season progresses by Belichick's design, which means it was also his design to put the burden on the defense this year. That 11-4 may be because the defense kept games close, but the defense hasn't scored many points this season, the offense had to do that ready or not.

Josh McDaniels is developing into a good OC, people who complain knowing his background and looking at Belichick's intent probably expect 6th grade students to do differential calculus with no mentoring.

One further point, there were any number of stories in the past couple years about the size of the different coaching staffs - New Engands is one of the smallest and has been shrinking. The Offensive Coaching staff is actually smaller this season than last, Matt Patricia has gone over to defense.

Now bash away at McDaniels if that is what you need to do, but the kid doesn't deserve it.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Charlie Weis' first year as an Offensive Coordinator was his 20th year in coaching, his 10th year in the Pros, and he had been a position coach for RB, WRs, and TEs by that point in his career.
Source: http://und.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/weis_charlie00.html

Josh McDaniels' first year as an Offensive Coordinator was his 8th year in coaching, his 7th year in the pros, and he was a position coach for two years for QBs only.
Source: http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=24595

I don't know how anyone can be disappointed with McDaniels' development. If people must complain about it, the burden correctly belongs on Coach Belichick's shoulders because he is the man making the decision to develop his OC inside the Weis Offensive System and train him on the the job. You claim the recent game plans/play calling have been much improved - oddly enough just as the Patriots are preparing to enter the Post-Season.
This thread discusses speculation about BB and his Coordinators: http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=46953

If you choose to credit the defense with saving the season that's fine, but this offense has been developing on many different levels as the season progresses by Belichick's design, which means it was also his design to put the burden on the defense this year. That 11-4 may be because the defense kept games close, but the defense hasn't scored many points this season, the offense had to do that ready or not.

Josh McDaniels is developing into a good OC, people who complain knowing his background and looking at Belichick's intent probably expect 6th grade students to do differential calculus with no mentoring.

One further point, there were any number of stories in the past couple years about the size of the different coaching staffs - New Engands is one of the smallest and has been shrinking. The Offensive Coaching staff is actually smaller this season than last, Matt Patricia has gone over to defense.

Now bash away at McDaniels if that is what you need to do, but the kid doesn't deserve it.

So therte you have it. His inexperience has hurt us this season, agreed?

 

[FloridaPatsFan]

What kills me is that there are a ton of ways to use statistics to point out what a great job Josh is doing with the offense.

But can anyone say they have ever seen Brady as frustrated with the offense in the past 5 years as they have seen this year?

Forget what Brady has done. Look for yourself. If you have even a little sense of what an offense should look like with a HOF QB in his prime at the helm, you don't have to be a genius to know that this offense has rarely found its rhythm this year.

The mere fact that we are where we are is due entirely to Tom Brady.

Josh McDaniels has been the weak link on our team this year. He has not gotten our offense out of 1st gear. He calls the plays. He devises the game plans. He is responsible for getting the offense ready.

I know there are a lot of people out there who think he is doing a good job but I think that he has been failing more often that succeeding.

Have we had 2 good offensive games in row this year? Not even close.

 

[Garbanza]

What kills me is that there are a ton of ways to use statistics to point out what a great job Josh is doing with the offense.

But can anyone say they have ever seen Brady as frustrated with the offense in the past 5 years as they have seen this year?

Forget what Brady has done. Look for yourself. If you have even a little sense of what an offense should look like with a HOF QB in his prime at the helm, you don't have to be a genius to know that this offense has rarely found its rhythm this year.

The mere fact that we are where we are is due entirely to Tom Brady.

Josh McDaniels has been the weak link on our team this year. He has not gotten our offense out of 1st gear. He calls the plays. He devises the game plans. He is responsible for getting the offense ready.

I know there are a lot of people out there who think he is doing a good job but I think that he has been failing more often that succeeding.

Have we had 2 good offensive games in row this year? Not even close.

Nailed it! Thank Gawd, the voice of actual reason!

That said, is Josh improving? Yes.

And I am in no way excluding BB from the conversation. BB made Josh the OC - and I am quite sure that Josh is on a short leash. However, my biggest gripe is BB's complete blundering of the Branch negotiations. Although Deion is doing diddly-squat in Seattle - he'd be great here in NE. Caldwell would be a #2....and the offense would be far superior to what it is now because we would have a receiver that is actually FEARED.

Anyway, it is the playoff's - anything can happen. My expectations are not high - but I am hopeful. I keep wishing that Chad Jackson has been a disspointment on purpose - that somehow he will have a breakout game against Denver (I assume). I have mucho faith in the defense.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I keep wishing that Chad Jackson has been a disspointment on purpose - that somehow he will have a breakout game against Denver (I assume).

Yah, I can see BB thinking "Let's tank the bye week and HFA and hide Jackson".
As if.

 

[mgteich]

It seems that this is the conclusion that Box's post supports. I agree that Josh may develop into a good coordinator, when he has a lot more experience. Why bb has failed to bring in an OC in the last two years is a mystery. bb has chosen to play one coach short. Josh should have had a few more years at various position coaches before making him the OC. He should have had more years with a top OC to learn from.

So therte you have it. His inexperience has hurt us this season, agreed?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

So therte you have it. His inexperience has hurt us this season, agreed?

As opposed to which OC would have helped? Who did you think was going to be a better OC? Why should BB give a crap if NEM wants Mike Martz and an entirely new offensive system?

What makes any fan think they know more than the Head Coach who has given this fan base a team to be proud of? Why is it so important to point at Josh and say YOU ARE HURTING US? Who is "us?" I don't know about you, but my team, the Patriots, are in contention for the Superbowl - 20 other teams will be on the golf course.

This has been a successful season, except for all the biatching like Raiders' fans in just about every thread started. I don't agree that Josh McDaniels has hurt "us," he has been part of the winning team I enjoy watching and cheering about.

If he hurt you, well, maybe the Krafts will get some grandmothers and set up a bandaid and booboo kissing booth. Dang-it bubba, you talk tough about taking on the Donkeys head on in another thread, let's quite sniveling about McDaniels hurting you and just enjoy this wonderful team and the post-season opportunity they have created. BB hasn't hosed "us" with his team product yet.

 

[Deus Irae]

What kills me is that there are a ton of ways to use statistics to point out what a great job Josh is doing with the offense.

But can anyone say they have ever seen Brady as frustrated with the offense in the past 5 years as they have seen this year?

Forget what Brady has done. Look for yourself. If you have even a little sense of what an offense should look like with a HOF QB in his prime at the helm, you don't have to be a genius to know that this offense has rarely found its rhythm this year.

The mere fact that we are where we are is due entirely to Tom Brady.

Josh McDaniels has been the weak link on our team this year. He has not gotten our offense out of 1st gear. He calls the plays. He devises the game plans. He is responsible for getting the offense ready.

I know there are a lot of people out there who think he is doing a good job but I think that he has been failing more often that succeeding.

Have we had 2 good offensive games in row this year? Not even close.

1.) 2 good offensive games in a row? Texans/Jaguars, Buffalo/Minnesota.... one could even argue Chicago/Detroit depending on how you define "good" in this context

2.) How many times must it be pointed out that McDaniels is not alone in crafting the game plan? Brady and Belichick also get together on it. Brady, as we see week in and week out, is making all sorts of calls at the line.

3.) You can't whine about the Branch/Givens vs. current receivers situation, note the Watson, Graham, Jackson, Maroney and Dillon injuries, and then turn around and piss on the job being done by the O.C..

4.) I can't repeat this often enough: 11-4 is what has you people crying. Pathetic.

5.) Point totals put up by the 14-2 2003 team, game by game:

0,31,23,17,38,17,19,9,30,12,23,38,12,27,21,31

for a total of 348 points and a 21.75 ppg average



Point totals put up by the 11-4 2006 team, game by game:

19,24,7,38,20,28,31,20,14,35,17,28,0,40,24

for a total of 345 points and a 23.0 ppg average.

So, 2006 needs only to score more than a field goal to end up as a higher scoring team than the 14-2 2003 team. Furthermore, with one game to go this season, this year's team has already scored 20 or more points 10 times, the same number of times it was done in 2003.



Seriously, this nonsense about bashing the O.C. is just that: nonsense.

 

[BionicPatriot]

What kills me is that there are a ton of ways to use statistics to point out what a great job Josh is doing with the offense.

But can anyone say they have ever seen Brady as frustrated with the offense in the past 5 years as they have seen this year?

Forget what Brady has done. Look for yourself. If you have even a little sense of what an offense should look like with a HOF QB in his prime at the helm, you don't have to be a genius to know that this offense has rarely found its rhythm this year.

The mere fact that we are where we are is due entirely to Tom Brady.

Josh McDaniels has been the weak link on our team this year. He has not gotten our offense out of 1st gear. He calls the plays. He devises the game plans. He is responsible for getting the offense ready.

I know there are a lot of people out there who think he is doing a good job but I think that he has been failing more often that succeeding.

Have we had 2 good offensive games in row this year? Not even close.

B-but! We're 11-4! This offense HAS to be good!

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

B-but! We're 11-4! This offense HAS to be good!

It's such a comfort being a wanker, the kids are all born at 18 years old with vocational degrees so you don't even have to go to graduation. You never have to supervise anyone and help develop them. State agencies serve you chicken nuggets on golden plates and tuck you in at night with your "tedy" bear - no, he's too old and getting beat too often. I guess you get a Vinnie doll instead.

 

[Deus Irae]

Depends on what you consider to be "hurting us." Is winning a bunch of games by scores that were so close that they went down to the final moments of the games when instead, perhaps bettger play calling would have given the team a little more breathing room.

Or is having to wait for the defense to pull out the game at the end because our offense couldnt move the ball and get the clincher, the one to put it away.

Sure , we had 11 wins, and that is great. But "hurting us" means a lot more than losing the game. Hurting us means not adjusting when it is quite obvious that what we are doing is not working, (Denver and Jets games) or at the other extreme, to STOP doing what is working and go the other way (Colts Game)

Yeah, we won 11, and we are going to the playhoffs, but there are other ways that a coach, or a player, can HURT a team, and McDaniels was the biggest "hurter" this season....

Maybe he will improve and I certainly hope so, because this team can't rely on him, based on what he has done this season, to pull out games in the playoffs if our defense has a bad game. THAT IS HOW HE HURTS US.

Please list for me 10 teams in the past 30 years that would fit your criteria for excellence in this area.

 

[Deus Irae]

What has that got to do with this thread, and this post?

List them yourself, I havent got time for your agenda.

Let's be honest, NEM. You don't have 10 teams you could name.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why would I want to? It has no bearing on this thread, or the Pats, or Josh McDaniels.

Of course it does. Name 10 offenses over the past 30 years that meet your requirements for being great. That must include your adjustment requirements, the absence of a need for the defense to pull out games and no games that were close at the end.


Come on. Just name 10. With 30 years, you'll have over 600 teams to choose from.

 

[Deus Irae]

I am sure I could do it, if I decided to sit down and find them, but it has no bearing on the context of this thread, or the current situation with the Pats. Nice try though.

We are talking about THIS season, nothing else. If you want to expand it onto something else, be my guest.

No, NEM, you're just trying to avoid responding to the question. You're constantly pissing and moaning about the current Patriots O.C. (and the previous ones as well, I'm told). So, here's your chance to show that they've been bad. Pull up 10 offenses that show great O.C. work under your rubrick. No close games, no need for defenses to make plays, proper adjustments always made, etc...

Given that there's only been one undefeated team in history, and it falls outside the scope of the 30 years time frame, it should be fascinating to see the 10 teams you choose.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just thought I'd bump this thread. I still want to see those 10 examples of great offenses/great O.C. work.

 

[Digger44]

Just thought I'd bump this thread. I still want to see those 10 examples of great offenses/great O.C. work.

10??????? He can't do 2 let alone 10. Maybe the 1986 Pats!!!! Whover the OC was he stunk though.

 

[Digger44]

see dues i told ya so. the threats come next. don't worry they dont work either. i was supposed to be disposed of, but nothing has happened. if you ever need hot air fot your balloon go to AZ.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

So it's defined as 'baiting' to ask someone to suppport their ludicrous claims by citing factual examples?

 

[Deus Irae]

Look palsy walsy. Your post is baiting..It is looking to begin anaother war on this board. If I, or anyone else, wanted to take the time to answer your question, there are probably a hell of a lot more than 10 teams that would fit the bill. I, and anyone else, is NOT avoiding answering the question..It jhust has no damned bearing on this thread, this forum, or anything else.

The complains and criticism against Josh McDaniels has been about him, and no one else... and not one time in all the threads about McDaniels has it ever been suggested that there have been, or havent been, in the same category, etc...So, stop attempting to intimidate, and stop playing your damned little, childish games for your group. You are wasting my time, you are wasting your time, you are wasting the time of a lot of others here with posts that are for one thing, and one thing only....and have absolutely no bearing on the Patriots, at all.

Give it up. A lot of us here are wise to you and your little buddies..but, not to worry, not for much longer. Have a nice day.

Don't say that I'm baiting, because I'm not. You consistently tear down this O.C., so I'm giving you a perfect opportunity to name 10 O.C.'s who put great offenses on the field, per your stated parameters. You have refused to do so, using excuses like "This is about McDaniels", when you are the biggest thread hijacker I've ever seen.

So, basically, it seems to me that you are admitting that you can't come up with one example. In the past 30 years, you couldn't find 10 teams that fit the bill. I'm sure I'm not alone in interpreting your unwillingness to analyze something people usually can't get you to shut up about as just that sort of a tacit admission.