Congrats to Josh McD

[Fogbuster]

Congratulations, Josh, for reading this board !!!

 

[PATSNUTme]

Thre are certain people on this board that cannot give credit where credit is due. Their own ego's are bigger than their love for the Patriots.

Those "all seeng - all knowing" egotists don't see that Josh is never that far away from BB when calling plays. Charlie use to be in his own area when calling plays. So, if you want to keep taking shots a Josh then you are really taking shots at BB.

Yeterdays game was well planned and well executed againts a very good defensive team. Was it perfectly called and executed? No, but very few game plans are.

I use to feel sorry for people who can't help themselves but to be nit-pickers.But, now I just hold them in contempt.

If anyone thinks that this is directed at them, all I can say is, if the shoe fits wear it.

 

[Fogbuster]

Although your comment may, in fact, have some sarcasm to it, it may be more correct than you realize.
The one thing thaty drastically changed was the number of pases thrown on first downs, as opposed to the 5 out of 23 first down plays the previous week.

It made third down plays considerably easier to convert to first downs.

One way or another adjustments were made to the offense this week, adjustments in the form of better choices of plays, better mixing of the attack, better use of both the personnel on hand and the better use of variety to keep the opponents' D on their heels.

Very few teams possess the overwhelming talent on offense to run plays at will and simply blow out the opposing defense. The current Patriots are no exception. For the Pats to succeed on offense they need to be creative in both their designing and calling of plays and their use of the correct personnel to do the job.

Anybody who thinks the Pats play-calling has been flawless this year has been drinking too much high-sucrose soft drink. I have yet to hear even Tom Brady say: "Well, we sure kicked ass today and we are all set in our offensive set-up; no one can touch us." Ha!! Quite the opposite. Tom knows better than most that in order to win consistently in the NFL takes *constant* effort in both the creative design and the successful execution of that design. Failing either is a loss at the end of the game. "We need to work harder," is all I've ever heard Brady say.

 

[RayClay]

One way or another adjustments were made to the offense this week, adjustments in the form of better choices of plays, better mixing of the attack, better use of both the personnel on hand and the better use of variety to keep the opponents' D on their heels.

Very few teams possess the overwhelming talent on offense to run plays at will and simply blow out the opposing defense. The current Patriots are no exception. For the Pats to succeed on offense they need to be creative in both their designing and calling of plays and their use of the correct personnel to do the job.

Anybody who thinks the Pats play-calling has been flawless this year has been drinking too much high-sucrose soft drink. I have yet to hear even Tom Brady say: "Well, we sure kicked ass today and we are all set in our offensive set-up; no one can touch us." Ha!! Quite the opposite. Tom knows better than most that in order to win consistently in the NFL takes *constant* effort in both the creative design and the successful execution of that design. Failing either is a loss at the end of the game. "We need to work harder," is all I've ever heard Brady say.

The Patriots game plan every week on offense. Always have in the BB era.

Run against the Bengals, pass against the Vikings etc.

I would say they usually know what they want to do and the execution has been the problem.

Whatever it is they think they can do against Miami usually doesn't work and you'd think they'd have that defense figured out by now.

 

[Fogbuster]

Charlie use to be in his own area when calling plays. So, if you want to keep taking shots a Josh then you are really taking shots at BB.

I for one feel it is obvious from this year's (and last year's) offensive scheming and execution -- with the latter being in some part a factor of the former -- has been less creative or effective than it was under Charlie.

BB's history has been defense, and he has clearly shown himself to be a real genius on that side of the ball this past decade, and possibly longer. I do not think BB's offensive skills have been on the same level, although I think he has improved over time, especially in his use of personnel for specific types of plays.

I don't call that nit-picking; I call it tying to improve, which is a necessity in the NFL. I saw on the Colts' board, referenced by another poster on this board, that there are calls from Colts fans for Dungy's firing. That's what happens when a good coach doesn't make the needed adjustments to get the job done.

 

[BelichickFan]

Our offense is top ten in yards. And scoring. And Football Outsiders' ratings - despite losing all it's WR other than Brown. Why does McDaniels still suck for some of you ? I think he's done a really, really good job. And scoring 24 on a top five defense yesterday did nothing to change that.

 

[Fogbuster]

Nobody wants to discuss your crap later. Why would you want to savor this title, its not as if you are a fan who has pulled for it. IF you actually document calls that you don't like and then use them to make a point you are either sick or so caught up with yourself its ridiculous. Oh wait it's both.

Yes, yes I know you were a fan b4 I was born blah blah blah. Go fing the sleigh tracks on top of the nursing home.

Digger, that's not really necessary. If you don't agree with the man, you can say it without resorting to such negative ad hominem. Really, it drags down the whole atmosphere. NEM's got a point; he's an "old dude" who feels he's got a right to say it now because he may not be around to say it later. If you don't agree say so with civility and more people will tend to listen more to your point. Ad hom just weakens whatever good point you have to share.

 

[BelichickFan]

I for one feel it is obvious from this year's (and last year's) offensive scheming and execution -- with the latter being in some part a factor of the former -- has been less creative or effective than it was under Charlie.

I really that numbers mean nothing to most of you and "how it looks" is what matters but this is our best offense except for 2004 when everything was intact. The fact that this is the case with what happened at WR is impressive - the fact that the fans are disappointed with it is perplexing.

 

[RayClay]

One way or another adjustments were made to the offense this week, adjustments in the form of better choices of plays, better mixing of the attack, better use of both the personnel on hand and the better use of variety to keep the opponents' D on their heels.

Very few teams possess the overwhelming talent on offense to run plays at will and simply blow out the opposing defense. The current Patriots are no exception. For the Pats to succeed on offense they need to be creative in both their designing and calling of plays and their use of the correct personnel to do the job.

Anybody who thinks the Pats play-calling has been flawless this year has been drinking too much high-sucrose soft drink. I have yet to hear even Tom Brady say: "Well, we sure kicked ass today and we are all set in our offensive set-up; no one can touch us." Ha!! Quite the opposite. Tom knows better than most that in order to win consistently in the NFL takes *constant* effort in both the creative design and the successful execution of that design. Failing either is a loss at the end of the game. "We need to work harder," is all I've ever heard Brady say.

I vote for #2. Some teams run the same basic offense each week. You don't see 3 TEs, then 2 RBs, empty backfield etc.etc.etc.

The Patriots have a lot of new people on offense.

I think the Pats have tightened it up by simplifying some things and running more focused practices.

The game plan is formed during practice by BB Brady and the OC.

The extent to which the OC pulls some magical sequence of plays out of his ass during games is exaggerated to a ludicrous extent by some posters.

Neither is he at fault for lack of diligence in learning the game plan by the players.

If the players are dedicated now to keeping up with a very difficult learning curve week to week, the game plans will be there.

Considering that isn't definite yet, judging the relative creativity of McDaniels vs. Weis is still premature IMO.

 

[RayClay]

I really that numbers mean nothing to most of you and "how it looks" is what matters but this is our best offense except for 2004 when everything was intact. The fact that this is the case with what happened at WR is impressive - the fact that the fans are disappointed with it is perplexing.

"Obvious" on this board means I didn't want to bother checking .

 

[Fogbuster]

I really that numbers mean nothing to most of you and "how it looks" is what matters but this is our best offense except for 2004 when everything was intact. The fact that this is the case with what happened at WR is impressive - the fact that the fans are disappointed with it is perplexing.

OK, good point on WR production: it *has* had some excellent production considering the chaos at that position. Yet, there have been times when the play-calling was just not the best it could have been.

As for "fan disappointment" -- that's a product of the high bar of expectation this team has created. We expect the Pats will be great and keep getting better each year. What's wrong with that !! Keeps the air in my tires!

 

[borg]

Digger, that's not really necessary. If you don't agree with the man, you can say it without resorting to such negative ad hominem. Really, it drags down the whole atmosphere. NEM's got a point; he's an "old dude" who feels he's got a right to say it now because he may not be around to say it later. If you don't agree say so with civility and more people will tend to listen more to your point. Ad hom just weakens whatever good point you have to share.

Read the second post to this thread. In Nem's tiny world, any congrats to an OC that has put up 66 points in the last 2 games is seen as an attack upon an obsessed, single-minded... ... ...We know your position, Nem. The OCs have been terrible the last 6 years despite 5 AFC East championships and 3 SBs. You know better, your the best. Seventeen thousand posts rehashing the same old stick...it's all very illuminating. I can't wait for your 50 posts today...always fascinating stuff. Keep it coming. Can't wait for the post game breakdown...electric stuff.Save yourself some time and just refer us all to past post #s so we can reread it over for the 17000 time. How about you start a thread devoted to your thoughts only and just stay in there for all your posts so if other PatsFans members want to be illuminated by your years of wisdom, they will have ready access to your thoughts on a minute by minute basis. For those who seek fresh ideas, they can bypass your website within a website and go directly to new ideas.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Read the second post to this thread. In Nem's tiny world, any congrats to an OC that has put up 66 points in the last 2 games is seen as an attack upon an obsessed, single-minded... ... ...We know your position, Nem. The OCs have been terrible the last 6 years despite 5 AFC East championships and 3 SBs. You know better, your the best. Seventeen thousand posts rehashing the same old stick...it's all very illuminating. I can't wait for your 50 posts today...always fascinating stuff. Keep it coming. Can't wait for the post game breakdown...electric stuff.Save yourself some time and just refer us all to past post #s so we can reread it over for the 17000 time. How about you start a thread devoted to your thoughts only and just stay in there for all your posts so if other PatsFans members want to be illuminated by your years of wisdom, they will have ready access to your thoughts on a minute by minute basis. For those who seek fresh ideas, they can bypass your website within a website and go directly to new ideas.

Now this is a wonderful Christmas present, thank you kindly! :rocker:

Perhaps Ian could create the NEM forum where NEM can attack the Patriots and their fans to his pacemaker's desire.

 

[Fogbuster]

Read the second post to this thread. In Nem's tiny world, any congrats to an OC that has put up 66 points in the last 2 games is seen as an attack upon an obsessed, single-minded.

OK, I just re-read NEM's post on #2 of this thread. Yes, he does some ad hom of his own with his "baiting" comment, yet his point on the play-calling remains as something I am sure BB & Co. will review. And, I'll bet BB himself will say that they probably should have done something differently.

I guess there's a fine line between the criticism is "constructive" and when it becomes over-kill and thus, destructive. Point taken, thanks.


//

 

[Fogbuster]

I vote for #2. Some teams run the same basic offense each week. You don't see 3 TEs, then 2 RBs, empty backfield etc.etc.etc.

The Patriots have a lot of new people on offense.

I think the Pats have tightened it up by simplifying some things and running more focused practices.

The game plan is formed during practice by BB Brady and the OC.

The extent to which the OC pulls some magical sequence of plays out of his ass during games is exaggerated to a ludicrous extent by some posters.

Neither is he at fault for lack of diligence in learning the game plan by the players.

If the players are dedicated now to keeping up with a very difficult learning curve week to week, the game plans will be there.

Considering that isn't definite yet, judging the relative creativity of McDaniels vs. Weis is still premature IMO.

Points taken. Thanks for your perspective.


//

 

[RayClay]

Points taken. Thanks for your perspective.


//

You're so reasonable, you make me feel guilty about the "obvious" dig.

Here's my view in a nutshell. McDaniel is no Charlie Weis. Who would expect that? Weis is battle tested, loud and aggressive. But he deserved a shot and he's gone.

An OC is not a coach like the defensive co-ordinator is. He's kind of a specialist. Usually you bring in a new one and he installs his system.

David Carr's had a different system every year and he's basically schizophrenic by now.

To avoid this, BB's basically had this kid intern in the Charlie Weis , BB system.

Brady and BB have a lot more input now, I'm sure.

The other issue is we lost 2 receivers with 4 years experience with Brady.

Individually, we made sound decisions. Givens took a ridiculous offer and God bless him. It's likely the contract of his career.

Branch f****d us. Again, he left on his high note, not caring that it might have destroyed the team. Given that, a #1 is tremendous.

You can't replace the 8 years of every game experience with Brady.

But, you can cut players, intensify practice, trim game plans etc. and improve as you go, if you have the players and I think we do.

Compare that to the Colts. Do they have the physical ability to stop the run?

Teams that have looked great have weaknesses too, they just haven't been exploited yet.

Redmond and Wiggins didn't show much in 2001 before the playoffs and we have lots of potential playmakers.

But potential don't get it done, so let's play ball.

 

[Fogbuster]

You're so reasonable, you make me feel guilty about the "obvious" dig.

Here's my view in a nutshell. McDaniel is no Charlie Weis. Who would expect that? Weis is battle tested, loud and aggressive. But he deserved a shot and he's gone.

An OC is not a coach like the defensive co-ordinator is. He's kind of a specialist. Usually you bring in a new one and he installs his system.

David Carr's had a different system every year and he's basically schizophrenic by now.

To avoid this, BB's basically had this kid intern in the Charlie Weis , BB system.

Brady and BB have a lot more input now, I'm sure.

The other issue is we lost 2 receivers with 4 years experience with Brady.

Individually, we made sound decisions. Givens took a ridiculous offer and God bless him. It's likely the contract of his career.

Branch f****d us. Again, he left on his high note, not caring that it might have destroyed the team. Given that, a #1 is tremendous.

You can't replace the 8 years of every game experience with Brady.

But, you can cut players, intensify practice, trim game plans etc. and improve as you go, if you have the players and I think we do.

Compare that to the Colts. Do they have the physical ability to stop the run?

Teams that have looked great have weaknesses too, they just haven't been exploited yet.

Redmond and Wiggins didn't show much in 2001 before the playoffs and we have lots of potential playmakers.

But potential don't get it done, so let's play ball.

Yup, a lot of good points. The thing I'm concerned about with Josh is that he *is* a young whipper-snapper Might have all the potential in the world, but not a proven yet. Upon further review the offense does have a lot of creativity; must be the execution that is lagging at times.

As for Bill himself, I've got my reservations about his offensive capability. I might be doing him a disservice -- would love to be proven wrong -- just I sometimes stay awake all night and ... NO, just kidding

Let's just say the jury is still out, or at least this juror is still watching and considering. Hey, that's why we play the games!!

 

[BelichickFan]

Meanwhile, after the Jax game we moved up in Football Outsiders' efficiency rankings to 7th in the league offensively. And our passing game is 5th. This, despite a crappy know nothing OC and no WR.

 

[BelichickFan]

You still dont get it, do you.

No I don't. And I never will.

 

[BelichickFan]

BTW, we're 8th in points too. I know . . . doesn't matter.