Congrats to Josh McD

[Fogbuster]

Meanwhile, after the Jax game we moved up in Football Outsiders' efficiency rankings to 7th in the league offensively. And our passing game is 5th. This, despite a crappy know nothing OC and no WR.

There's saying: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. All about the same."

The only stat worth caring about is the W-L column.

Unless you're a Red Sox fan: Oh, look, Teddy's leading the league again!! Look, Pete Runnells is leading the league!! Oh, wow, Yaz is MVP. Whoopee-dee. The only real purpose of statistics is to keep fans whose teams suck from bagging the whole thing and taking up fishing or contract bridge. Hello!!

 

[borg]

You lstill dont get it, do you. Its not the rankings, its how individual games have been run, a couple of the losses should not have been, and could have been wins with changes and adjustments, and many of our victories were sweated out until the final moments of the games, and did not have to be if not for some really inept play calling during those wins...that is the entire point....

Has nothing to do with our rankings, etc...its game by game failures that made games more difficult than they could have been.

Hopefully, the changes that were made in the last game are the start of an awareness by McDaniels that he has made a lot of mistakes but has been fortunate, in many instances, to have the defense bail him out....

Be honest, on game day , you and your crew wheel into the Vine,the Staff sets you up in the most remote place in the building, and for 3 hours you yell at the TV, calling out plays you would run. Occasionally, the manager asks you to tone it down because you are disturbing the other early birders. My guess is that you have been asked to leave the premises on more than one occasion and you find a new hole with lower standards. If the Pats win, you congrat yourself for the OC listening to your wild rants, If the Pats lose, you fling your geritol jar at the TV...Am I close?

 

[BelichickFan]

There's saying: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. All about the same."

The only stat worth caring about is the W-L column.

OK, we're 11-4.

The two "stats" that matter are wins and points. And we're going fine (despite one TD and one Safety all season scored by the defense).

Why do I bring up the stats ? In an attempt to try to get through some of the thick heads around here that the offense is doing well. We're scoring more than the 2003 team. THAT'S MORE. Yes, less than 2004 but that's when everything was clicking with Branch, Givens and Dillon in their prime. Given our situation at WR, a comparison to 2003 with Antowain Smith at RB is more appropriate.

And our offense ranks high. Our passing game ranks high. Our points scored ranks high. And our record ranks high (although this is largely based on D/ST which is why W-L in NOT the only stat worth caring about on a thread about the offense).

If stats are meaningless then we're stuck with the NExpertsM's saying this call was bad and this design was bad but not being allowed to counter it with "it's working" - and it is working. Sorry to tell you that.

 

[Fogbuster]

OK, we're 11-4.

The two "stats" that matter are wins and points. And we're going fine (despite one TD and one Safety all season scored by the defense).

Why do I bring up the stats ? In an attempt to try to get through some of the thick heads around here that the offense is doing well. We're scoring more than the 2003 team. THAT'S MORE. Yes, less than 2004 but that's when everything was clicking with Branch, Givens and Dillon in their prime. Given our situation at WR, a comparison to 2003 with Antowain Smith at RB is more appropriate.

And our offense ranks high. Our passing game ranks high. Our points scored ranks high. And our record ranks high (although this is largely based on D/ST which is why W-L in NOT the only stat worth caring about on a thread about the offense).

If stats are meaningless then we're stuck with the NExpertsM's saying this call was bad and this design was bad but not being allowed to counter it with "it's working" - and it is working. Sorry to tell you that.

Hey! No apologies needed! None at all. I understand you're pride in what the team has done so far. Frankly, I'm surprised a bit, and proud, too. But what I want to know is: are they ready for the next one?? Are they wise to the fact that there is still work to be done?? Are they in fact working on it, or are they content to be 11-4?? It ain't over yet, son, not by a long shot.

//

 

[BelichickFan]

Hey! No apologies needed! None at all. I understand you're pride in what the team has done so far. Frankly, I'm surprised a bit, and proud, too. But what I want to know is: are they ready for the next one?? Are they wise to the fact that there is still work to be done?? Are they in fact working on it, or are they content to be 11-4?? It ain't over yet, son, not by a long shot.

There were no apologies offered. Of course Belichick and Pioli are getting ready for the offseason. The only thing we don't know is how they view the upside of Caldwell, Gaffney, Jackson because that determines how strong they go after a top WR this offseason.

 

[Fogbuster]

There were no apologies offered. Of course Belichick and Pioli are getting ready for the offseason. The only thing we don't know is how they view the upside of Caldwell, Gaffney, Jackson because that determines how strong they go after a top WR this offseason.

I see. When you said: "OK, we're 11-4. The two "stats" that matter are wins and points. And we're going fine ..." it seemed to indicate you are satisfied with everything. I, for one, am not.

And when you said: "If stats are meaningless then we're stuck with the NExpertsM's saying this call was bad and this design was bad but not being allowed to counter it with "it's working" - and it is working. Sorry to tell you that." It seemed to say you were "sorry" to tell me something. From now on I know when you say you're "sorry", you really are not. OK. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[frankiesfly]

yes, he did call a great game, and the pats executed well.

 

[Seneschal2]

The thing I'm concerned about with Josh is that he *is* a young whipper-snapper Might have all the potential in the world, but not a proven yet. Upon further review the offense does have a lot of creativity; must be the execution that is lagging at times.

Well, reaching the playoffs isn't too shabby an addition to his resume for his first official season. That aside, we need to remind ourselves this is still a team sport, and therefore accept the fact that the individual plays and overall gameplan are to be executed by the players. There lies the main shoulder of responsibility. And until that is consistently accomplished...

You lstill dont get it, do you. Its not the rankings, its how individual games have been run, a couple of the losses should not have been, and could have been wins with changes and adjustments, and many of our victories were sweated out until the final moments of the games, and did not have to be if not for some really inept play calling during those wins...that is the entire point....

Has nothing to do with our rankings, etc...its game by game failures that made games more difficult than they could have been.

Pats 20-17
Pats 32-29
Pats 24-21

Forget the style points. And I DO get it.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

You called an excellent game today. Congrats to your first AFCE Championship. Thanks for a job well done.

I think I'll congratulate Dean Pees, too for the same reasons you give.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'll indulge myself for once and repost a cut from another thread, Bremmer's excellent Tale of the Tape column becuase his salient observations about J McD are appropos here.

"The perfect example of how the Patriots adjust and adapt can come with the obvious — in the multitude of formations they’ve run this year — or the more subtle. Coming out of college, Maroney was thought to be a good fit for a zone running system. And that generally hasn’t been the Patriots’ way of playing offense, they’ve been more of a power running team. But it’s clear, again, that they’ll always adapt to their personnel, rather than the other way around. You won’t see as much of the outside zone runs (or stretch plays) with Maroney, because the Patriots’ offensive line isn’t built to do that consistently. But what was clear on Sunday was that when the rookie was in, the Patriots were dealing the Jags a heavy dose of inside zone runs, where the line influences the defense one way to create a backside cutback lane in the other direction. Though his touchdown came on what looked like a power off-tackle play, most of his other carries seemed to come on inside zone plays."

I did not know that. Good player coaching & good game plan by the OC.

"The bunch formations, out of the spread, that the Patriots ran made it tough for Jacksonville to matchup and the receivers did a good job of clearing out coverage for an underneath target. The Jaguars linebackers simply couldn’t break on the ball quick enough after recognizing where the receivers were going. So credit goes to Josh McDaniels, for creating those matchups with Jacksonville’s plodding ‘backers"

It's nice to read observations and critiques on the coaching and techniques by someone who has an understanding of football vs blatant repetitive noise by the self-annointed.

 

[Fogbuster]

I'll indulge myself for once and repost a cut from another thread, Bremmer's excellent Tale of the Tape column becuase his salient observations about J McD are appropos here.

"The perfect example of how the Patriots adjust and adapt can come with the obvious — in the multitude of formations they’ve run this year — or the more subtle. Coming out of college, Maroney was thought to be a good fit for a zone running system. And that generally hasn’t been the Patriots’ way of playing offense, they’ve been more of a power running team. But it’s clear, again, that they’ll always adapt to their personnel, rather than the other way around. You won’t see as much of the outside zone runs (or stretch plays) with Maroney, because the Patriots’ offensive line isn’t built to do that consistently. But what was clear on Sunday was that when the rookie was in, the Patriots were dealing the Jags a heavy dose of inside zone runs, where the line influences the defense one way to create a backside cutback lane in the other direction. Though his touchdown came on what looked like a power off-tackle play, most of his other carries seemed to come on inside zone plays."

I did not know that. Good player coaching & good game plan by the OC.

"The bunch formations, out of the spread, that the Patriots ran made it tough for Jacksonville to matchup and the receivers did a good job of clearing out coverage for an underneath target. The Jaguars linebackers simply couldn’t break on the ball quick enough after recognizing where the receivers were going. So credit goes to Josh McDaniels, for creating those matchups with Jacksonville’s plodding ‘backers"

It's nice to read observations and critiques on the coaching and techniques by someone who has an understanding of football vs blatant repetitive noise by the self-annointed.

Thanks for posting this. Good to know. Hang! I wish I could see more games !! I need to hijack a satellite hook-up or something. Any good crackers here send me a private note.


//

//

 

[RayClay]

Yup, a lot of good points. The thing I'm concerned about with Josh is that he *is* a young whipper-snapper Might have all the potential in the world, but not a proven yet. Upon further review the offense does have a lot of creativity; must be the execution that is lagging at times.

As for Bill himself, I've got my reservations about his offensive capability. I might be doing him a disservice -- would love to be proven wrong -- just I sometimes stay awake all night and ... NO, just kidding

Let's just say the jury is still out, or at least this juror is still watching and considering. Hey, that's why we play the games!!

You and me both. OC's are creative people first.

But it is what it is,as they say. It just doesn't seem you can get a top OC without a totally new system.

To me, once the game plan's set, (and that's largely the HC), game day is 90% execution and 10% play calling and I might be giving play calling too much emphasis.

The biggest loss with Weis was his "coaching" of Brady IMO.

 

[RayClay]

No I don't. And I never will.

If you do, don't tell me. I still think we're 11-4.

 

[RayClay]

Hey! No apologies needed! None at all. I understand you're pride in what the team has done so far. Frankly, I'm surprised a bit, and proud, too. But what I want to know is: are they ready for the next one?? Are they wise to the fact that there is still work to be done?? Are they in fact working on it, or are they content to be 11-4?? It ain't over yet, son, not by a long shot.

//

I'm sure you remember 2001. Will this team ever win?

What if we lost the franchise, (Bledslow) and our 7th pick 90 catch receiver, (12 more than branch ever, in his rookie year)?

My take is each year's Championship team develops a personality along the way, even with the exact same players.

I think last years team had the heart to go all the way, but their losses and stresses were too great.

This team is just starting to develop it's personality and it always comes from veterans.

Of course Brady pulled the sword from the stone in 2001, but the veterans embraced him because he out worked and out hustled Bledsoe.

Gabriel was probably better than what's left at receiver right now, but if he and Jackson were fighting the system or being lackadaisical, an example needed to be made.

Jackson's just a kid. He'll get a lot of pressure from the veteran core to pass initiation and Maroney's getting this too.

I don't think BB has a dog house as much as he has a trap door.

We're here to win, so start focusing on the units that are coming up big.

For instance, after that fluke play with Drew, I noticed every tackle after that looked like a wrestling hold. And TBC led the team.

Corrections and extra effort are the signs to look for.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

We're here to win, so start focusing on the units that are coming up big.

For instance, after that fluke play with Drew, I noticed every tackle after that looked like a wrestling hold. And TBC led the team.

Corrections and extra effort are the signs to look for.

When you start making salient points like this, it must be time for your medication. :rocker:

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

It seems to be all coming together just in time for the playoffs.

Spread formation is hopefully here to stay, mixed in a with a little bit of running.

Turnovers are down.

Players are getting healthy.

Rodney is back, Wilfork will be back soon.

There is some good depth with Wright, Green, and Sanders.

Thomas is coming around the past two weeks with production.

You have to be happy that things are looking good.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Be honest, on game day , you and your crew wheel into the Vine,the Staff sets you up in the most remote place in the building, and for 3 hours you yell at the TV, calling out plays you would run. Occasionally, the manager asks you to tone it down because you are disturbing the other early birders. My guess is that you have been asked to leave the premises on more than one occasion and you find a new hole with lower standards. If the Pats win, you congrat yourself for the OC listening to your wild rants, If the Pats lose, you fling your geritol jar at the TV...Am I close?

Borg,

That's not quite fair to NEM. He did organize the first Patriots' fan club and he is president emeritus at the Vine.

But if you think he has knock down drag out arguments on these pages, you ought to visit the Vine sometimes. Most attendees tend to ignore him and ignore his b***ching on every play successful or not. Smetimes we point out to him when we've had enough that he has his head up his ass, but mostly we humor the old coot.

Age does have it privileges. He is a fan, after all.

As Mark Twain said"... the definition of a Friend is he knows your warts and likes you nonetheless...". I thoroughly disagree with most of what NEM says, and believe me I tell him so, but every few games or so he actually pops out with a nugget of useful observation, amidst the tons old chaff and animosity toward any OC.

Be thankful, Can you imagine his diatribes against the QB or HC if they still called the offensive plays like they used to do in his formative years? I never knew NEM when Babe Parilli or Grogan played QB but it must have been awesome to see him ***** about them and their play calling.!

If he ever catches on that Belichick's OC is a puppet whose strings are pulled by Bill, you'd never get over his campaign to fire Belichick for the obvious inability to coach a Pop Warner team...

 

[FloridaPatsFan]

Josh is doing a little better.

But I refuse to forget that he ran up the middle repeatedly against Denver for NO GAIN and would not deviate from his game plan.

The Pats ran for over 100 yards in the 1st half of the Colts game against a FRESH Colts defense and abandoned it almost completely in the 2nd half.

But, he did have Brady throw a ton against the Vikings knowing they could not run on that D with much success.

He did almost the same last week against a tough Jags D with much success.

He's coming around but I can't help but think someone grabbing him by the ear and screaming at him "DO YOU GET IT YET?!!!!"

 

[Digger44]

Holy crap. I couldnt imagine watching a game with NEM. My greatest sympathy to those in AZ.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Holy crap. I couldnt imagine watching a game with NEM. My greatest sympathy to those in AZ.

Kudos to his hosting at the Vine, tix for fans, etc.
Not that it excuses the forum spamming & trolling.