Carlos Dunlap vs Jermaine Cunningham

[Ochmed Jones]

Will Cunningham dress for a game this year...so we can have stats to compare?

Way more to this game than stats, my friend.

 

[reflexblue]

Way more to this game than stats, my friend.

On a side note just read that Mt Cody is down to 335 lbs. from 400.

 

[patchick]

On a side note just read that Mt Cody is down to 335 lbs. from 400.

Are you taunting poor Ochmed? :nono:

 

[reflexblue]

Are you taunting poor Ochmed? :nono:

No, i was high on Cody too. I'm impressed that he shed that much weight i wish i could. Although If i lost 65 lbs i wouldn't have anything to wear. He really needed to drop the weight he looked like the Blob.

Check the guy in the back ground out, he looks like hes running from the Tsunami Cody is going to cause.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Are you taunting poor Ochmed? :nono:

Darn straight, little sister!

I still can't believe we passed on him. The Ravens spent a year getting Cody in shape and Cody helped the Ravens absolutely tool the Steelers last week. I think Mendenhall fumbled once just to avoid getting hit by Cody.

On the plus side, I think the Jets play the Ravens this year. Was that Mangold I saw scared stiff and crying like a baby in the corner of the Jets locker room.

I would love to see Mankins straight up on Cody. I gotta think Cody gets tooled.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Darn straight, little sister!

I still can't believe we passed on him. The Ravens spent a year getting Cody in shape and Cody helped the Ravens absolutely tool the Steelers last week. I think Mendenhall fumbled once just to avoid getting hit by Cody.

On the plus side, I think the Jets play the Ravens this year. Was that Mangold I saw scared stiff and crying like a baby in the corner of the Jets locker room.

I would love to see Mankins straight up on Cody. I gotta think Cody gets tooled.

Jets play Jax this week. Don't play Baltimore until wk 4.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

You must be one of those so called BB lovers who found many ways to defend Butler, maroney, chad jackson and so on. Cunningham would not have better number on the bengals because he's not a better player than dunlap. Cunningham is a jag. BB the coach is great, but BB the GM is average especially at drafting. I don't drink the coolaid on this board. BB doesn't know more football than everybody in the league like some fans would like us to believe. We have left too many good players on the board in recent years.

I'd say BB is one of the best at Drafting in the NFL.

The others being the Ravens, Steelers, Chargers, Packers.


Even those teams have their hits and misses.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I'd say BB is one of the best at Drafting in the NFL.

The others being the Ravens, Steelers, Chargers, Packers.


Even those teams have their hits and misses.

So it doesn't concern you that the best DE/OLB that Bill has ever drafted and developed is Tully Banta Cain?

He was handed McGinest and picked up Vrabel and got more out of him than he could have ever hoped for. Colvin and Adalius were FA pickups.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

So it doesn't concern you that the best DE/OLB that Bill has ever drafted and developed is Tully Banta Cain?

He was handed McGinest and picked up Vrabel and got more out of him than he could have ever hoped for. Colvin and Adalius were FA pickups.

Yes it bothers me. In an earlier thread I said that the #1 reason for our defenses decline and current putrid state was that BB will not draft pass rushers.

And even worse than not drafting hardly any early in the draft, except slow man Cunningham, BB has NOT developed anything even remotely resembling talent at that position. It is doubtful our current staff could coach up a young Lawrence Taylor. Of course we will never find out because BB will never draft any player that even remotely resembles a young Lawrence Taylor.

Something is really, really, really wrong when year after year everybody and their mother knows we need pass rush help and year after year BB ignores the position. Where is the local media? Are they that afraid of BB that they can not pursue this point more strenuously?

Others shouted me down on this topic, but I think it is the single biggest problem with our currently # 25 ranked defense by a mile. Asking DB's to cover for an hour or so while our pass rush staggers toward the QB is ridiculous and sadly BB knows it.

How can a man who watches hours and hours of tape not realize how important a pass rush is to HIS defense?

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Yes it bothers me. In an earlier thread I said that the #1 reason for our defenses decline and current putrid state was that BB will not draft pass rushers.

And even worse than not drafting hardly any early in the draft, except slow man Cunningham, BB has NOT developed anything even remotely resembling talent at that position. It is doubtful our current staff could coach up a young Lawrence Taylor. Of course we will never find out because BB will never draft any player that even remotely resembles a young Lawrence Taylor.

Something is really, really, really wrong when year after year everybody and their mother knows we need pass rush help and year after year BB ignores the position. Where is the local media? Are they that afraid of BB that they can not pursue this point more strenuously?

Others shouted me down on this topic, but I think it is the single biggest problem with our currently # 25 ranked defense by a mile. Asking DB's to cover for an hour or so while our pass rush staggers toward the QB is ridiculous and sadly BB knows it.

How can a man who watches hours and hours of tape not realize how important a pass rush is to HIS defense?

Exactly. Big difference between Belichick and Parcells was that Parcells emphasized spending high picks on top flight edge players like Ware, Abraham, McGinest.

I know Steve Young has said that Belichick likes to scheme his pass rush with coverage. That his coverages were so confusing/difficult to figure out and the defensive lineman would eventually get there. He said they no longer have the guys with the football intellect to carry things like that out (Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Law, etc.)

Belichick's refusal to draft pass rushers has been one of the reasons for the downfall of this defense. Even when Adalius Thomas was brought in, Bill talked about how great he was in coverage, not about how prolific of a pass rusher he is.

I don't understand how a guy that coached LT could be so against drafting pass rushers. Bill should take a page out of the Giants book. They are always drafting, developing, and signing front 4 players. You have Osi Umenyoria, Justin Tuck, and Matthias Kiwanuka, and you still take Pierre Paul in the first round, who is turning into a monster. Always collecting pass rushing defensive lineman.

The hallmark of these great defenses were elite playmakers in the front 7. Playmaking linebackers (Bruschi, McGinest, Vrabel) and difference makers up front (Seymour, Washington, Wilfork, Warren). Belichick's refusal/inability to replace these players has left the defense in poor shape. A LB corps with Spikes/Guyton/Ninkovich/Fletcher is not going to scare many teams.

I'm tired of trying to pay 75 cents on the dollar with guys like Cunningham and Crable. Go up and get an Orakpo. Go up and get a guy like Suggs. Imagine having a guy like Suggs on this team? He has single handedly taken over games and dominated.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Bill should take a page out of the Giants book. They are always drafting, developing, and signing front 4 players. You have Osi Umenyoria, Justin Tuck, and Matthias Kiwanuka, and you still take Pierre Paul in the first round, who is turning into a monster. Always collecting pass rushing defensive lineman.

Yeah, we should aspire to be like the NY Giants. LOL Who needs need ol and te's. We have Kiwanuka and Pierre Paul......LOL I'll take our team. Thank You very much. BB has built an offensive juggernaut around Tom Brady. We're going to live and die with them.

Sure, I'd like to get an elite pass rusher. Tuck was a great pick. I actually wanted us to take him. LT went 2nd overall. And, Ware was a high pick. The only top 10 picks Belichick has had he's taken Richard Seymour and J. Mayo. I think the switch to a 4-3 indicates that it's very hard to find the olb's who play his 3-4. In the future, you're going to see a 4-2-5 with two tackles. Two de's who can stand up and run and cover the flat rb's and te's.. Blitz lb's and db's. Not unlike what Rex Ryan is doing. I know I and all Pats fans can't stand the loudmouth. But, he's getting pressure with schemes not players too. I think we're going to see more of that.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Exactly. Big difference between Belichick and Parcells was that Parcells emphasized spending high picks on top flight edge players like Ware, Abraham, McGinest.

I know Steve Young has said that Belichick likes to scheme his pass rush with coverage. That his coverages were so confusing/difficult to figure out and the defensive lineman would eventually get there. He said they no longer have the guys with the football intellect to carry things like that out (Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Law, etc.)

Belichick's refusal to draft pass rushers has been one of the reasons for the downfall of this defense. Even when Adalius Thomas was brought in, Bill talked about how great he was in coverage, not about how prolific of a pass rusher he is.

I don't understand how a guy that coached LT could be so against drafting pass rushers. Bill should take a page out of the Giants book. They are always drafting, developing, and signing front 4 players. You have Osi Umenyoria, Justin Tuck, and Matthias Kiwanuka, and you still take Pierre Paul in the first round, who is turning into a monster. Always collecting pass rushing defensive lineman.

The hallmark of these great defenses were elite playmakers in the front 7. Playmaking linebackers (Bruschi, McGinest, Vrabel) and difference makers up front (Seymour, Washington, Wilfork, Warren). Belichick's refusal/inability to replace these players has left the defense in poor shape. A LB corps with Spikes/Guyton/Ninkovich/Fletcher is not going to scare many teams.

I'm tired of trying to pay 75 cents on the dollar with guys like Cunningham and Crable. Go up and get an Orakpo. Go up and get a guy like Suggs. Imagine having a guy like Suggs on this team? He has single handedly taken over games and dominated.

I would love it of BB could go back in time and get Orakpo instead of Brace and Butler, and while many here would love better rushers one problem with that is that we don’t know who will turn out to be a flop as opposed to a stud.

Cunningham actually did pretty well his rookie year despite playing a new position, even though he's been injured lately he's shown signs of being an impact player.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I would love it of BB could go back in time and get Orakpo instead of Brace and Butler, and while many here would love better rushers one problem with that is that we don’t know who will turn out to be a flop as opposed to a stud.

Cunningham actually did pretty well his rookie year despite playing a new position, even though he's been injured lately he's shown signs of being an impact player.

Orakpo was picked 13th. Our pick was 26. How were we supposed to pick him? Hindsight says we should have drafted Clay Matthews at 26 instead of trading down. But, BB didn't think he had the size to play olb in his scheme. And, without artificial assistance he probably doesn't. Some liked Matthews. Most of us didn't. We were wrong about that. You can criticize him for passing on a guy who was available when he picks, but not for one who wasn't.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Orakpo was picked 13th. Our pick was 26. How were we supposed to pick him? Hindsight says we should have drafted Clay Matthews at 26 instead of trading down. But, BB didn't think he had the size to play olb in his scheme. And, without artificial assistance he probably doesn't. Some liked Matthews. Most of us didn't. We were wrong about that. You can criticize him for passing on a guy who was available when he picks, but not for one who wasn't.

It's called trading up

 

[reflexblue]

Yeah, we should aspire to be like the NY Giants. LOL Who needs need ol and te's. We have Kiwanuka and Pierre Paul......LOL I'll take our team. Thank You very much. BB has built an offensive juggernaut around Tom Brady. We're going to live and die with them.
.

And he won his Super Bowls with Defense thank you very much. Don Shula fell into the same trap once he got Marino. He (Shula) won A LOT of games but never won another Super Bowl.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Orakpo was picked 13th. Our pick was 26. How were we supposed to pick him? Hindsight says we should have drafted Clay Matthews at 26 instead of trading down. But, BB didn't think he had the size to play olb in his scheme. And, without artificial assistance he probably doesn't. Some liked Matthews. Most of us didn't. We were wrong about that. You can criticize him for passing on a guy who was available when he picks, but not for one who wasn't.

Let's not forget two things here:

(1) There *were* legitimate question marks regarding Matthews (see: Cushing, Brian).

(2) Matthews v. GRONK—it's either/or.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Let's not forget two things here:

(1) There *were* legitimate question marks regarding Matthews (see: Cushing, Brian).

(2) Matthews v. GRONK—it's either/or.

The steroid issue was there. But, you can't ignore his bloodlines either. Uncle is in HOF and dad was a helluva player too. Grandfather played in the NFL. I wasn't high on Matthews and not complaining about the trade down. Just didn't work out this time. Sometimes you make the right moves with the extra picks. Sometimes you don't.

Gronk was drafted in 10. Matthews trade down happened in 09. That trade didn't acquire his pick.

 

[Sciz]

Gronk was drafted in 10. Matthews trade down happened in 09. That trade didn't acquire his pick.

1. Traded pick 26 and a 5th in 2009 to Packers for picks 41, 73, and 83 in 2009.
2. Traded 73 in 2009 to the Jags for pick 44 in 2010 and 232 in 2009.
3. Traded 44 and a 6th in 2010 for pick 42 in 2010, where they selected Gronkowski.

Now, the other pieces they got out of that were Butler, Tate, and Edelman. Of course, I'd take Gronkowski alone over the most overrated player in the NFL (Matthews).

 

[Ochmed Jones]

1. Traded pick 26 and a 5th in 2009 to Packers for picks 41, 73, and 83 in 2009.
2. Traded 73 in 2009 to the Jags for pick 44 in 2010 and 232 in 2009.
3. Traded 44 and a 6th in 2010 for pick 42 in 2010, where they selected Gronkowski.

Now, the other pieces they got out of that were Butler, Tate, and Edelman. Of course, I'd take Gronkowski alone over the most overrated player in the NFL (Matthews).

Wow that is a strong statement about Mathews.

Interesting against Carolina that when rushing the passer, Mathews ran upfield, causing Newton to scramble to the huge hole Mathews left behind and Newton would either throw for a mile downfield or run it.

When Mathews stopped doing that Newton started throwing picks.

 

[patchick]

Exactly. Big difference between Belichick and Parcells was that Parcells emphasized spending high picks on top flight edge players like Ware, Abraham, McGinest.

Ah, did you notice that the high picks you mentioned were all with different teams? Parcells could spend lots of high picks on shiny players because he never stuck around long enough to deal with drafting late year after year. Belichick, though, sticks with the Patriots. How can he "emphasize" spending top-10 picks any particular way when he's only had one in the past decade?

Granted, he didn't spend that one on a pass rusher but an ILB, which was a pretty glaring need at the time. But let's say he made it more of a priority and passed on Mayo...who could the Patriots have drafted at OLB/DE instead?

The answers are: Derrick Harvey and Lawrence Jackson, or with a trade up possibly Vernon Gholston. Not one of them managed to last out his rookie contract.

It's just really, really hard to find pass rushers even at the top of the draft, and that much harder later. (That's not to say they shouldn't at least be trying, though! I'd even like to see more cheap picks like Markell Carter, super-athletic guys who might turn into something. That was Cameron Wake once, after all.)