The official Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

[VJCPatriot]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

Thanks for stopping by. I think as far as the mental aspect of the game goes, that has to start up at the top with the coaching, then it has to be reinforced with veteran leadership from the players themselves. I'm not sure you'll ever have that with Norv Turner. He's a 'players coach' who always sees the glass as half full. He doesn't appear to have the personality to be critical and really get on guys to clean up errors and really focus in. I mean just listening to his postgame press conference he sounds kinda wishy washy and not like a guy who's mad and wants to tear things up and start again from scratch to make sure his team will have an edge to win their next game. Hell, Phillip Rivers sounds a lot more emotional about the loss than the coach. Where's the leadership and the passion, Norv?

The Chargers do have a talented team, I'll definitely give them credit for that, but like you said, if they ever want to hang with the elite top tier teams that compete for Superbowls every year like the Pats, the Packers, etc. then they have to do a total overhaul of their mental game. Whatever they are doing now, it's just not gonna cut it. You might be able to get away with making mental mistakes like that against lesser teams like Minnesota but not when you get to the good teams and the games where all the marbles are on the line. In the end, when it gets to playoff time it will come down to which team has grown the most and has the killer instinct and the razor edge that it takes to win the tough games. Enjoy your season, there's still a lot of football to be played.

Hey guys,

I'm a lurker over from the chargers forum, usually don't get too involved with the online message board stuff, but wanted to congratulate you guys on the win. It was very impressive to see the NE offense in action this year. It must be nice to be able to expect great things to happen around the clock because it's the norm, as opposed for me, where I'm on the edge of my seat wondering how we'll mess up this play pre-snap.

It just goes to show you how far apart our teams are in term of preparation and execution. While I do believe the game was closer than the score showed, we didn't execute when it mattered the most, and the mental errors of all those turnovers...well, it should be fairly obvious by now that if you expect to beat this 2011 Patriots team, you can't go around making those sort of dumb mistakes.

I'm certain a lot of that has to do with coaching, and I admire what BB has done with your guys. It's like one huge well oiled machine where any of your players will step up and execute if called upon to do so. I don't hate to admit that I wish our team could be a little bit more like yours in that aspect, as the mental aspect of our game has been missing for quite some time (or maybe we never had it.) Do I think we can get there? Yes, but the better question is how many of these lows and "growing pains" do we need to go through for it to click with all of our guys.

I want to say that it's been a fantastic rivalry. Hopefully we can squeeze a win or two down the line to show up as more than a blip on your regular season radar. Maybe we'll be able to make some noise later in the season if all the guys can get focused. Prob won't be back here again (unless we catch each other in the playoffs )

 

[pao]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

pao - ROLFMAO.. You've got to be kidding.. The D-linemen were all tied up with your O-linemen.. How can you say there was tripping?? That's just silliness on your part..

Watch this video, objectively...

NFL Videos: Patriots defense, fumble recovery

Now tell me, objectively, that it wasn't tripping. Tripping is a penalty of 10 yards.

It was clear that most of the calls were in the Chargers favor, though some of them were so blatant, that they had to be called as they were.

No sense arguing, we'll never agree. Who cares anyway, scoreboard is the only thing that matters. Patriots win, Chargers lose.

 

[pao]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

wrong.....he was tripped by his own lineman:bricks:

Here's the video.

NFL Videos: Patriots defense, fumble recovery

Again, no one can objectively say that Warren isn't tripping Tolbert.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

Here's the video.

NFL Videos: Patriots defense, fumble recovery

Again, no one can objectively say that Warren isn't tripping Tolbert.

One could argue intent, but there's no question that Warren's legs ended up wrapped around Tolbert's leg and brought him down. On the other hand, I think that any honest evaluation of the officiating in that game would agree that it was the Patriots that got screwed more often. Do we really need to discuss that ridiculous pass interference call that Gates got, for example?

 

[pao]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

One could argue intent, but there's no question that Warren's legs ended up wrapped around Tolbert's leg and brought him down. On the other hand, I think that any honest evaluation of the officiating in that game would agree that it was the Patriots that got screwed more often. Do we really need to discuss that ridiculous pass interference call that Gates got, for example?

We can go back and forth and talk about specific plays but there are two things to consider before going any further. One is who is objective enough to go through and evaluate the calls (you obviously don't think I am and I have doubts about you, even though I respect you as a poster.) and is willing to go through and watch the game again, this time noting and evaluating all calls and non calls. Second, and really most important, is the fact that the only thing that matters is Scoreboard. Who cares? Patriots won, Chargers lost, right?


EDIT: Btw, if you really want to argue intent, watch Warren's feet as he brings Tolbert down. Tell me he didn't intend to do it after watching that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

We can go back and forth and talk about specific plays but there are two things to consider before going any further. One is who is objective enough to go through and evaluate the calls (you obviously don't think I am and I have doubts about you, even though I respect you as a poster.). Second, and really most important, is the fact that the only thing that matters is Scoreboard. Who cares? Patriots won, Chargers lost, right?

I think you'd find that I'm about as fair and objective as you're going to be willing to admit anyone from another fan base is. Beyond that, I didn't knock your objectivity but, rather, disagreed with your take on the final tally. That could, perhaps, be changed with further viewing. If we sat down together and broke the officiating down, I expect you'd come around to the other side on a lot of the calls, as some of your fellow Chargers fans did during the game.

Also, while I think the final say in any particular game is the scoreboard, since it isn't going to be changed by the NFL, discussion about the games and issues in the overall game shouldn't just be dismissed. The officiating has been terrible around the league to this point. Just saying "scoreboard" allows the league to hide that fact. I don't want NFL officials becoming as bad as NBA officials, but that's where they seem to be heading.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

EDIT: Btw, if you really want to argue intent, watch Warren's feet as he brings Tolbert down. Tell me he didn't intend to do it after watching that.

I wasn't arguing it. I was noting that someone could. In the case at hand, I'd have called it a penalty.

 

[pao]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

I think you'd find that I'm about as fair and objective as you're going to be willing to admit anyone from another fan base is. Beyond that, I didn't knock your objectivity but, rather, disagreed with your take on the final tally. That could, perhaps, be changed with further viewing. If we sat down together and broke the officiating down, I expect you'd come around to the other side on a lot of the calls, as some of your fellow Chargers fans did during the game.

Great post.

Just to be clear, I definitely believe there were some bad calls against the Patriots. An offensive holding, a defensive holding, and another defensive holding off the top of my head. There was a non PI call that the refs missed against Jackson, also off the top of my head. Whatever, it didn't affect the outcome of the game either way, imo.

Also, while I think the final say in any particular game is the scoreboard, since it isn't going to be changed by the NFL, discussion about the games and issues in the overall game shouldn't just be dismissed. The officiating has been terrible around the league to this point. Just saying "scoreboard" allows the league to hide that fact. I don't want NFL officials becoming as bad as NBA officials, but that's where they seem to be heading.

The point I was making about "scoreboard", and doing a poor job of explaining it, was that I was not using poor officiating as an excuse for the Chargers losing. I agree about the officiating, btw.

Another note, off topic- I think whoever the player is that did the Illegal Block in the Back penalty on the Warren interception made a GREAT play. He kept Tolbert from having a chance at knocking the ball out of Warren's arms. That was a real heady play and I wonder if he is getting props for it. I think there's a good chance that Warren fumlbes that ball if he doesn't block him in the back.

 

[NEP4Life]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

Watch this video, objectively...

NFL Videos: Patriots defense, fumble recovery

Now tell me, objectively, that it wasn't tripping. Tripping is a penalty of 10 yards.

No sense arguing, we'll never agree. Who cares anyway, scoreboard is the only thing that matters. Patriots win, Chargers lose.

I see Wilfork #75 on that video. And he was held and dragged down by Chargers #61, which is a 10-yard penalty.

 

[pao]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

I see Wilfork #75 on that video. And he was held and dragged down by Chargers #61, which is a 10-yard penalty.

Irrelevent to what I posted about Wilfork. That is a whole other discussion. Funny though, I kept calling Wilfork, Warren. Sorry about that to all you Patriots fans.

 

[NEP4Life]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

Look, we're all friends here.

Let's admit that NFL officials are held to a higher standard.

Not your standard.

Certainly not my standard.

No, it's the unimpeachable standard of Las Vegas gambling insiders.

So let's set aside our quibbling over penalties, and recognize that NFL officials are held accountable to a much more stringent, kneecap-oriented constituency.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

Irrelevent to what I posted about Wilfork. That is a whole other discussion. Funny though, I kept calling Wilfork, Warren. Sorry about that to all you Patriots fans.

I didn't catch it either, even though Warren's not even on the team right now. No biggie.

 

[pao]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

I didn't catch it either, even though Warren's not even on the team right now. No biggie.

The player was #32 (McCourty sp?) and here's a link to the video...

NFL Videos: Patriots defense, INT

Great play by #32. Awesome play by Wilfork who started almost over center on the play.

 

[pao]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

I didn't catch it either, even though Warren's not even on the team right now. No biggie.

LOL. Blew that one. Did you see him talking smack to the SD bench after his "tackle" on the play Tolbert fumbled? Pretty hilarious.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

My primary objection to the officiating was the Chaagiz hunting for Patriots knees (Hernandez) and twice tackling Brady below the knees not "accidently". One play was a whisker from a season ender for Brady.

 

[NEP4Life]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

My primary objection to the officiating was the Chaagiz hunting for Patriots knees (Hernandez) and twice tackling Brady below the knees not "accidently". One play was a whisker from a season ender for Brady.

And what are your secondary, tertiary, and quaternary objections?

 

[captain stone]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

IF and this is a big if, this D can jell by working together (remember there's LOTS of newbies, vets and kids) and continue the culture of making big plays then they can begin to approach the kinds of Ds that BB put together 2001 and thereafter.

That's what we were hoping for last season, too.

But in the end, against the J-E-S-T & The Gay Blade, the numbers were:

Zero QBHs, Zero INTs, Zero FFs.

I'm not saying that it was all the defense's fault that we lost,
but when your success is almost exclusively predicated upon the also-paid, also-trained
opponent committing enough mistakes to mask your own deficiencies,
then you are going to eventually be disappointed, sooner or later.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

I see Wilfork #75 on that video. And he was held and dragged down by Chargers #61, which is a 10-yard penalty.

I agree with pao...upon further review, that looked like a really obvious trip by Wilfork, as much as I hate to say it. And no, it wasn't holding on #61, it was a good double-team and then takedown of Wilfork. You'll never ever get a holding call for that. But even if you *do* get the holding on #61, it's offsetting penalties, replay the down, San Diego retains possession.

So let's face it, the Pats were doubly fortunate on that play.

 

[PushnPencils]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

That's what we were hoping for last season, too.

But in the end, against the J-E-S-T & The Gay Blade, the numbers were:

Zero QBHs, Zero INTs, Zero FFs.

I'm not saying that it was all the defense's fault that we lost,
but when your success is almost exclusively predicated upon the also-paid, also-trained
opponent committing enough mistakes to mask your own deficiencies,
then you are going to eventually be disappointed, sooner or later.

I would like to give you greater accolades on this post, but before I do...I need to know how many football coaching books you've read. Only then will the credibility of your post be confirmed.

Until then, you're a [insert insult here], and have no qualifications to comment on anything you've observed.

 

[PushnPencils]

Re: The offficial Patriots Chargers POST game thread.

The things my zero football accumen mind is questioning are the following:

1. Talent on D. McCourty had a nice year in 2010, but I wonder whether 2010 is the abberation rather than this season. Like any other fans, we tend to overrate our players. Making a true comparison of our secondary against the league....where do we really rank?

2. Coaching. Do we have enough folks invested in teaching defense to our players. Teaching specifics and nuances of of being a DB. Are the coaches we have the best we can get.....or just the least "poachable" by other teams.