Rookie guarantees and why Solder isn't signed yet

[patfanken]

Re: The Solder Situation

Interesting that it was reported that Solder's agent is the same as Matt Light's - Can you spell "conflict of interest" boys and girls?

I WAS very frustrated because this really isn't a hold out over money or years. The fact that the Pats are WILLING to guarantee THREE years to start is quite a commitment to a guy who hasn't played a down in the league. That's probably over $6MM. I don't see the problem. There's an easy fix that's already been reported which is having the 4th year guaranteed a the start of the 4th year.

I don't know why this is even an issue. If the kid is even half what we hope he will be, he will NEVER play that forth year under his current contract. IF he's THAT good the Pats will most likely extend him in his 2nd or 3rd year. SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM.

The kid is either an Ahole, which doesn't seem to be the case, or he's getting and listening to some VERY bad advice.

 

[patriot lifer]

Re: The Solder Situation

Good info Mo thnx man. Like I said I know the situation, but at the same time I know so little about it when I see responses from ppl like Mo. I'm not going to pretend that I know something like this instane b/c I don't know all the details.



I don't get why we can't guarantee him 4 years?


what is the big deal Mo and other ppl?

It sets a precedent for future deals. First rounders (including Solder) could become busts, in which case teams prefer the flexibility in being able to cut those players. Guaranteed money creates a financial commitment.

 

[Shelterdog]

Re: The Solder Situation

Interesting that it was reported that Solder's agent is the same as Matt Light's - Can you spell "conflict of interest" boys and girls?

I WAS very frustrated because this really isn't a hold out over money or years. The fact that the Pats are WILLING to guarantee THREE years to start is quite a commitment to a guy who hasn't played a down in the league. That's probably over $6MM. I don't see the problem. There's an easy fix that's already been reported which is having the 4th year guaranteed a the start of the 4th year.

I don't know why this is even an issue. If the kid is even half what we hope he will be, he will NEVER play that forth year under his current contract. IF he's THAT good the Pats will most likely extend him in his 2nd or 3rd year. SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM.

The kid is either an Ahole, which doesn't seem to be the case, or he's getting and listening to some VERY bad advice.

And if he's bad or if he gets hurt and doesn't get the fourth year he lose a few million bucks. I'm not going to judge him on holding out for it. He'll sign it soon enough and now that Light's in camp Solder's not going to play much unless there are injuries.

 

[borg]

Re: The Solder Situation

#16 Ryan Kerrigan.....4 years....$8.72 mill.....guaranteeed

 

[BlueThunder]

Re: The Solder Situation

he's getting and listening to some very bad advice.

this................

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: The Solder Situation

Interesting that it was reported that Solder's agent is the same as Matt Light's - Can you spell "conflict of interest" boys and girls? I WAS very frustrated because this really isn't a hold out over money or years. The fact that the Pats are WILLING to guarantee THREE years to start is quite a commitment to a guy who hasn't played a down in the league. That's probably over $6MM. I don't see the problem. There's an easy fix that's already been reported which is having the 4th year guaranteed a the start of the 4th year. I don't know why this is even an issue. If the kid is even half what we hope he will be, he will NEVER play that forth year under his current contract. IF he's THAT good the Pats will most likely extend him in his 2nd or 3rd year. SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM. The kid is either an Ahole, which doesn't seem to be the case, or he's getting and listening to some VERY bad advice.

I'm not sure on that. I recall reading he changed agents during the lockout. I know it was someone's agent on the team and Light's name stuck. Can't confirm it. He was with Athletes First on draft day which is Dunn's agency (that also employs Kessler's son...).

You can't extend rookies until the after their 3rd season per the new CBA. And at that time you get to exercise the option for the 5th year at preset levels per position (average of top ten in their 3rd year for top eight and average of top 20 minus top 2 for players 9-32. Or something like that...I'm in no mood to look it up...

 

[TheSolderKing]

Re: The Solder Situation

It sets a precedent for future deals. First rounders (including Solder) could become busts, in which case teams prefer the flexibility in being able to cut those players. Guaranteed money creates a financial commitment.

I thought about this, but I find it hard to see Solder bust. If it is a precedent to make an example out of it why does Solder not get a little below Ryan Kerrigan $$$ the guy taken before him?

#16 Ryan Kerrigan.....4 years....$8.72 mill.....guarantied

 

[Snake Eyes]

Re: The Solder Situation

And if he's bad or if he gets hurt and doesn't get the fourth year he lose a few million bucks. I'm not going to judge him on holding out for it. He'll sign it soon enough and now that Light's in camp Solder's not going to play much unless there are injuries.

And if he's bad and get's Brady hurt, what then?

 

[PlainOldEd]

Re: The Solder Situation

guess that's why they signed light, this guy will be holding out for a good chunk of the season, maybe the whole season.

They still ahve a bunch of other OTs....center is what they need to develop.

Wow, you formulate a conclusion and jump right to it, huh?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: The Solder Situation

I thought about this, but I find it hard to see Solder bust. If it is a precedent to make an example out of it why does Solder not get a little below Ryan Kerrigan $$$ the guy taken before him?

What they get is pre determined in an allocation. That isn't what they are haggling over. It's the full 4 years guaranteed. Kerrigan got it. Teams would have preferred nobody did, but they did. Now they are hoping to draw the line at the top half of the round vs. the bottom half - which is what Solder represents the beginning of at #17.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: The Solder Situation

Wow, you formulate a conclusion and jump right to it, huh?

Always....

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: The Solder Situation

Pats' UDFA OTs are very happy that Solder is out stamping his feet. With Light back on the team I don't think BB is in a panic rush to sign Solder to a presedent setting deal quickly.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: The Solder Situation

I can't cut and paste the Chart. won't let me click link



9 Tyron Smith- 4yrs 12.5m guar.
17 Nate Solder unsigned
22 Castonzo Details undisclosed
29 Carimi 4yrs 7.06 nothing guar.
32 Sherrod 4yrs 6.6 nothing guar.


what really hurts us here are the undisclosed contracts and the distance between Sherrod 9 and Solder 17. Anthony Costonzo @ 22 everything is undisclosed.
What is our deal not willing to guarantee the guy $$$ and his 4yrs? The hold up has to be on guaranteed money. Picks 29 and 32 nothing is guaranteed and obviously a 17th overall pick deserves probably 7-9million guar. Smith is a top 10 selection and I hope solder is not expecting that kind of guaranteed $$$ of 12.5 m.



NFL.com news: Signing status of 2011 NFL Draft first-round picks

While the information is "undisclosed" to the public, team management has open access to it.

Also, it's been well noted (clearly you missed it) that the hand up is between having the 4th year guaranteed or not.

 

[NEPats1]

Re: The Solder Situation

Before Florio said it was about 4th year being guaranteed, now it's about money:

Last three first-round holdouts about money, not fourth-year guarantee | ProFootballTalk

 

[patriot lifer]

Re: The Solder Situation

I thought about this, but I find it hard to see Solder bust. If it is a precedent to make an example out of it why does Solder not get a little below Ryan Kerrigan $$$ the guy taken before him?

#16 Ryan Kerrigan.....4 years....$8.72 mill.....guarantied

Sure, we might not think him to be a bust. But teams run the risk every year of their high picks being a bust and the risk doesn't go away just because we're confident with our selections (Maroney looked good, even after his first season).

As for Kerrigan, who was picked at 16 per RotoWorld, this is the battle that agents and gm's are waging now. The agent says "this is the market" while the gm says "just because one team did that doesn't mean we are." This year is important for gm's to establish what the norm is. If they fold to everything being guaranteed this year, then it becomes an expectation. So while Kerrigan got a fully guaranteed amount, that isn't the end-all-be-all for determining what Solder should get in the eyes of the Pats front office.

 

[eom]

Re: The Solder Situation

Good info Mo thnx man. Like I said I know the situation, but at the same time I know so little about it when I see responses from ppl like Mo. I'm not going to pretend that I know something like this instane b/c I don't know all the details.



I don't get why we can't guarantee him 4 years?


what is the big deal Mo and other ppl?

Stop it.

I don't mean to sound like and a-hole but the last thing we need is a virtual al davis negotiating our contracts.
I'm much happier as a pats fan --- the nfl doesn't need another raiders or redskins.

 

[TheSolderKing]

Re: The Solder Situation

I understand make a line so


1-5 6-10

11-16 17-22 23-26 27-32



like something like this mo??? I intentionally put them into groups and I did make the groups up myself, but bI think this is fair and what the Pats want to see in terms of an individual with in a particular group. Agents probably categorize their own groups and state this player should get x b/c he is here.
When an agent overvalues his client then we are all at a cross roads. If I can make slots with in a whole sample size so can't agents

 

[TheSolderKing]

Re: The Solder Situation

Stop it.

I don't mean to sound like and a-hole but the last thing we need is a virtual al davis negotiating our contracts.
I'm much happier as a pats fan --- the nfl doesn't need another raiders or redskins.

this draft sets a precedent for future deals see my last post.

 

[Shelterdog]

Re: The Solder Situation

And if he's bad and get's Brady hurt, what then?

Are you trying to say that we should cave on the backup rookie LT's demands because if he has to play without a full camp than he might get Brady hurt? That's a lot of ifs. I'd rather he get in camp sooner rather than later but if it takes an extra week to pound out a four year deal, so be it.

 

[patsfan13]

Re: The Solder Situation

Guaranteed $$$ phucks w/ cap space correct? Are we letting our cap strategy best us here?


Is the Agent entirely responsible here is it the player? Or are the PATS using their own leverage as well b/c we know we have light. If the PATS are stubborn about this we lose more and more development time. This situation suc ks. I am no expert on this situation and if ppl know more than me about this plz step up

It sets a precedent that the team may not want to set. The reporting I have seen said the problem was started when Tampa Bay's new GM paid over the slot amount (taking the $$$ from other lower picks) for their #1 and guaranteeing all the $$$. The agents for the other players want the same sort of stupid deal.

The Patriots aren't competitive every year by making stupid Front Office moves. If he wants to sit out the year instead of accepting a fair deal that is his problem. It may also indicate that you don't want him on the team from an attitude POV time will tell.