Rookie guarantees and why Solder isn't signed yet

[Snake Eyes]

Re: The Solder Situation

Are you trying to say that we should cave on the backup rookie LT's demands because if he has to play without a full camp than he might get Brady hurt? That's a lot of ifs. I'd rather he get in camp sooner rather than later but if it takes an extra week to pound out a four year deal, so be it.

That couldnt be further from my position, I believe in pay for performence. Since Solder is a very RAW rookie, that would need a ton of coaching/training to get up to speed we certainly aren't getting 4yrs of value from him, why should he be paid for 4yrs? If he just takes off and exceeds expectations then I think he should be paid extra, but these his demands don't seem the slightest bit reasonable, especially when he's being offered 75% guaranteed right now.

Long story short, if someone wants money I think they should be prepared to EARN it.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Re: The Solder Situation

It sets a precedent that the team may not want to set. The reporting I have seen said the problem was started when Tampa Bay's new GM paid over the slot amount (taking the $$$ from other lower picks) for their #1 and guaranteeing all the $$$. The agents for the other players want the same sort of stupid deal.

The Patriots aren't competitive every year by making stupid Front Office moves. If he wants to sit out the year instead of accepting a fair deal that is his problem. It may also indicate that you don't want him on the team from an attitude POV time will tell.

If he continues his holdout I wonder how much we'd need from another team in order for it to make sense to ship him out.

 

[Shelterdog]

Re: The Solder Situation

If he continues his holdout I wonder how much we'd need from another team in order for it to make sense to ship him out.

If I remember correctly the new CBA has harsh penalties for rookie holdouts (huge fines or something); I assume once those kick in Solder will sign on the line that is dotted.

 

[Urgent]

Re: The Solder Situation

I didn't/won't read the ProFootball Talk article.

In Solder's case, as Mo Vaughn memorably said, it's not about the money.
In fact, by being the last pick unsigned, the money is determined. To the dollar. There is a rookie cap. If you are the first to sign (as Adrian Clayborn was with the Bucs) there is some latitude. If you are in the middle of chronological signings, there is a little. If you are last, there is none. The contract money has been determined.

The four-year guarantee thing is a real issue. It does set a precedent for future draft picks. Further, it starts to set a precedent for four-year contracts in the NFL. Baseball now essentially demands guaranteed contracts. Hence you see teams like the Red Sox put potential Hall-of-Famer's like Manny Ramirez on waivers to see if anyone wants to pick him and his guaranteed contract up, and teams trading players and agreeing to pay a large portion of their guaranteed contract, because their market value has slipped. The NFL would prefer to avoid that.

Two years from now, the argument "I don't think Solder will be a bust, so we will give him a guaranteed contract" won't work on a higher risk 17th pick. You see, number 17, we think you might be a bust.

At this point Solder and his agent pretty much know how many dollars there are. By waiting, even by only a couple weeks, he is constraining his ability to play in the first half of his rookie season. In the unique situation of the lock-out limiting off-season training, he will be competing with the guy who has held the role in this offense for 10 years. He has no chance to gain time early without a major injury to Light.

Solder is really a pure left tackle. It's less likely he would be asked to play RT as a back-up. The Patriots will want a swing tackle on the game-day active roster, the guy who could back-up LT or RT. That's Levoir, but not Solder. That says he is less likely to be a game day active if he doesn't get on the field immediately.

If he's going to drag his feet another day or two, he might as well hold out until the day before the season, in hopes that the Patriots blink. This season will be a learning one. He needs to be prepared in case of injury, and hope he picks up enough of the offense as a back-up during practices to compete for time in the winter.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: The Solder Situation

If he continues his holdout I wonder how much we'd need from another team in order for it to make sense to ship him out.

You can't trade an unsigned player. If he holds out for the season as a rookie he goes back into the 2012 draft I believe... It won't come to that.

 

[Haley]

Re: The Solder Situation

You can't trade an unsigned player. If he holds out for the season as a rookie he goes back into the 2012 draft I believe... It won't come to that.

If he holds out too long and the Pats look like they might be heading to the Super Bowl, just how sad would he be? I think tears.

 

[BradyToAmendola]

Re: The Solder Situation

If he wants all 4 years guaranteed just because the Bucs are idiots, then screw him and his agent, I hope the Pats don't give it to him. This is exactly how rookie contracts get out of control...teams like the Bucs.

 

[TheSolderKing]

Re: The Solder Situation

#16 Ryan Kerrigan.....4 years....$8.72 mill.....guaranteed

I am however concerned that we seem not to be offering a close 4 year deal to Kerrigans for Solder. Is it the grouping thing? check my quote pertain9ing to what I think is the truth.

I made my small groupings from the WHOLE sample size of 32 teams. No 1 has quoted that post yet or gave mention to it plz take a look and is this the message you were trying to make?

I understand make a line right?


1-5 6-10

11-16 17-22 23-26 27-32



like something like this mo??? I intentionally put them into groups and I did make the groups up myself, but bI think this is fair and what the Pats want to see in terms of an individual with in a particular group. Agents probably categorize their own groups and state this player should get x b/c he is here.
When an agent overvalues his client then we are all at a cross roads. If I can make slots with in a whole sample size so can't agents

ppl stop quoting my 1st post. I have said and learned a great deal from my starting thread post . Check my other posts.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: The Solder Situation

Bedard tweeted:

»
Greg_A_Bedard Greg A. Bedard
Not Solder RT @ProFootballTalk: Last three first-round holdouts more about total dollars than guarantees

If you know what the ranges are and the team spent the max on everyone drafted after you they there is no way you can hold out for more money... Clayborn was signed before the rest of Tampa's draft class. Another idiotic move by a green GM.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Re: The Solder Situation

You can't trade an unsigned player. If he holds out for the season as a rookie he goes back into the 2012 draft I believe... It won't come to that.

I thought you could trade your rights to a player to another team if that player held out?. I remember hearing about that when Crabtree held out for half the season.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: The Solder Situation

#16 Ryan Kerrigan.....4 years....$8.72 mill.....guaranteed I am however concerned that we seem not to be offering a close 4 year deal to Kerrigans for Solder. Is it the grouping thing? check my quote pertain9ing to what I think is the truth. I made my small groupings from the WHOLE sample size of 32 teams. No 1 has quoted that post yet or gave mention to it plz take a look and is this the message you were trying to make? ppl stop quoting my 1st post. I have said and learned a great deal from my starting thread post . Check my other posts.

We do. It's just that they are nonsensical babbling. Look, your groupings don't count. Neither do those of any agent following your hypothetical example or advice. It's what the teams are looking to do and I explained the rational for the top half and bottom half differential. That is where the cutoff for 6 year vs. 5 year deals has been since the last CBA. Not all first rounders are alike. There is a value dropoff at some point. Smart teams seem inclined to think this should be it. THE HALFWAY POINT, and Solder is on the wrong side of it...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: The Solder Situation

SD just signed their guy. Leaving only Akamura and Solder.

Schefter reports Solder deal is very close. Rapsheet confirms he is in the area and hoping to practice tonight if it is. No word on whether any will get more than 3 years guaranteed.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Re: The Solder Situation

SD just signed their guy. Leaving only Akamura and Solder.

Schefter reports Solder deal is very close. Rapsheet confirms he is in the area and hoping to practice tonight if it is. No word on whether any will get more than 3 years guaranteed.

:rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker:

 

[Calciumee]

Re: The Solder Situation

SD just signed their guy. Leaving only Akamura and Solder.

Schefter reports Solder deal is very close. Rapsheet confirms he is in the area and hoping to practice tonight if it is. No word on whether any will get more than 3 years guaranteed.

Link to Rapoport's article:

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet» Blog Archive » The Patriots and OL Nate Solder are “very close” a deal… and he could practice today

 

[bagwell368]

Re: The Solder Situation

Pats' UDFA OTs are very happy that Solder is out stamping his feet. With Light back on the team I don't think BB is in a panic rush to sign Solder to a presedent setting deal quickly.

Quite so. I wonder if Solder signed very quickly if Light would have been back?

Solder has more talent and higher grades then SeaBass when he came out, so I expected to see him play a lot as a rookie as Seabass did.

Now, BB is going to let him twist, and he'll see little or no action in his rookie year, which may curtail his value down the road. All part of the plan if you don't play ball with BB when you need too.

 

[Frick]

Re: The Solder Situation

The first thing the owners should do is fire their lawyers and hire the firms that work for the agents, they are better.

Solder from his tapes and his contract negotitions, gives off the smell of dead money. I hope for the Patriots that he can play well enough to beat out Maneri or Levoir for ROT in two years.

I loved the look on Matt's face when he said, looking forward to the competition.

I will never be convinced that we didn't try to trade #17 in the draft.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: The Solder Situation

Signed...thread is ancient history

 

[OhExaulted1]

Re: The Solder Situation

guess that's why they signed light, this guy will be holding out for a good chunk of the season, maybe the whole season.

They still ahve a bunch of other OTs....center is what they need to develop.

Good call.

 

[TheSolderKing]

Re: The Solder Situation

This is a great report!!!

 

[Synovia]

Re: The Solder Situation

Now, BB is going to let him twist, and he'll see little or no action in his rookie year, which may curtail his value down the road. All part of the plan if you don't play ball with BB when you need too.

If hes as good as Light, or even close, he'll play. BB doesn't let what happens between the agents and the franchise affect what happens on the playing field.