Why is the Jets D so much more effective than the Pats?

[Ring 6]

Interesting that the majority are thinking more player vs. scheme. (Probably should have made this a poll ...)

I also agree that maybe we don't have the right players for the scheme BB wants to run.

Which begs the question: Is he trying to fit square pegs into a round hole? Should BB consider a shift in philosophy to accommodate the current players?

I think you win championshps by fitting players into (and finding players for) your system.
I dont think the fact that our defense is being rebuilt and having growing pains is a reason to say that the system that won 2 SB with the Giants, 3 here, and went to 2 more is inferior to the one that is now 8-8 plus 2 gifts for the Jets. Come on, can we at least overreact with a sense of history?

 

[tombonneau]

I think you win championshps by fitting players into (and finding players for) your system.
I dont think the fact that our defense is being rebuilt and having growing pains is a reason to say that the system that won 2 SB with the Giants, 3 here, and went to 2 more is inferior to the one that is now 8-8 plus 2 gifts for the Jets. Come on, can we at least overreact with a sense of history?

Yes, but as others alluded to, that is history and the game has evolved. Ever since the Polian Rule has been enforced, the Pats D has not been the same. Now correlation does not equal causation, and a lot of other things happened, key players got older and/or moved on, but would those same players and schemes be as effective in 2010 the way the game is called so tight in the secondary?

BB showed a willingness to evolve offensively with the rules change by going to the spread, yet he doesn't seem to have adapted on the defensive side, which I find curious.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

It's the scheme. If you can't confuse Mark Sanchez, you really need to rethink what your doing.

 

[tombonneau]

It's the scheme. If you can't confuse Mark Sanchez, you really need to rethink what your doing.

I have to 100% agree, especially when you replace Mark Sanchez with any of the following:

AJ Feeley
Kyle Boller
Seneca Wallace

And those are just the average-at-best QBs that looked like world beaters vs. the Pats D that I can think of off the top of my head. Hell, you might even want to add Jake Delhomme, who is still banking millions off the equity earned in that Super Bowl.

 

[DefenseRules]

Right on the money. The Jets may have better talent on D, but the disparity in the performance of the two teams stands far beyond the measure of each teams ability as players. The pats' D looks confused or anxious, or both, far too often. Belichick has not done a good job of either teaching these guys what to do or finding a way to use what he has more efficiently. The D has no resilience, they're like a balloon - prick a little hole in them and they're finished in a hurry.

And if BB really believes that the only stat that matters is who has more points at the end of the game then he needs to have a little chit chat with his megastar QB. 14 points? Against a D that wasn't exactly beating the Patriots down. Brady's play in the 2nd second half was the most disappointing aspect of yesterday's game.

I absolutely agree with you on ALL POINTS. I am one the biggest Brady fans around here, but yesterday, he let the team down in the second half. I am more pissed at him than our young defense. After so many years in the league, I expect much better than that from him.

 

[Franchise12]

their defense is more effective because they fielded a defense with players that can win a good share of their individual battles. Theres only one guy (wilfork) that wins his battles consistently for our defense. growing pains are to expected of this defense but on the other side of the hardships I expect to see a handful of players emerge to make this a very good,young, yet experienced defense.

 

[37Harrison]

I think it has everything to do with the secondary. When you have talented guys in the backfield who can cover and find the ball in the air, you et more passes batted away and more pressure on the QB.

When you have a safety like Harrison, Polumalu (SP?), Reed, Bob Sanders (when he's not injured), they can get blitz pressure, stop the run, and provide the neccessary safety net for the CB's. When a CB can rely on the safety to be there in case they mess up, they have more confidence in being aggressive instead of safe.

When any of these guys (safeties) are missing from the D, the defense just isn't the same.

I'm hoping Chung can develop into a guy like this and in the first game he played out of his mind. Yesterday I saw him missing tackles. Coincidence?

 

[mgteich]

I agree.

The jets have chosen to use their resources to devlop one of the best defenses in the nfl. We have used our resources to develop one of the best offenses in the nfl.

Players. The Jets have much better players on defense than the Patriots. Simple as that.

 

[letekro]

Because Rex Ryan is a genius and Dean Pees is an IDIOT.

 

[AJY the Jets troll]

I think trading away Richard Seymour was very bad for the defense.

Yes he was old but he is still a great player. Yes he wanted too much money but he was a true leader. Yes we got good value but the way BB has drafted over the past 5 years it's not worth it.

The front line misses his play and the whole team misses his presence.

Plus Oakland has managed to win a game already.

 

[hudlander]

LBs.
LBs.
LBs.

The Pats old 3-4 had very solid LBs.
They are SORELY missed.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Players. The Jets have much better players on defense than the Patriots. Simple as that.

That. I also think that Ryan's philosophy might be a little better suited for how the game has evolved over the past few years, but that's a side point. Most of it just comes down to on-the-field talent, same reason why our offense is so much better than theirs.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think trading away Richard Seymour was very bad for the defense.

Yes he was old but he is still a great player. Yes he wanted too much money but he was a true leader. Yes we got good value but the way BB has drafted over the past 5 years it's not worth it.

The front line misses his play and the whole team misses his presence.

Plus Oakland has managed to win a game already.

Seymour isn't old, really. He has 2 years on Wilfork; doesn't turn 31 for a couple more weeks. I agree that he's been sorely missed, though. Warren being out just compounds an existing problem.

 

[gomezcat]

I think the idea that BB's defence hasn't evolved is wrong, IMO. We go into sub-packages over 50% of the time and most of the players drafted over the past 3-4 years reflect this.

Witness Mayo (a fast ILB), all the DBs (all fast unlike, say, Otis Smith and Rodney Harrison), Cunningham (a fast OLB/DE), some athletic DT types like Pryor, the emergence of Wright and so on. Against that, he has drafted some people like Spikes for the traditional 3-4 running downs. Having said that, the trend in drafting terms seems to be towards speed on defence. I would suggest that the Pats have identified the need to transform from a big-ish team to a fast one.

It is going to take a few years before we see the best of this defence; for a start, many of the players are competing one-on-one against guys who are in their mid to late 20s. Those players have had much longer with NFL strength and conditioning coaches to work on explosiveness, sheer strength, stamina and so on. We shouldn't underestimate just how big a difference that makes. Then there's the difference in experience, but that's evident to everyone.

 

[JMarr]

Stubborly sticking with what has worked in the past ironically could be what is slowly killing this team. All teams have key injuries, so the lack of talent argument doesn't hold a lot of water IMO.

They have ignored drafting some of the more athletic defensive prospects in favor of players that smarter players better suited to BB's scheme. Bend don't break simply isn't as working anymore against the better offenses in the league. I wish that BB had made Dom Capers the DC and let him run the defensive the way he wanted. Seems like he's done a good job with Green Bay.

BB is stretched too thin and his insistence on staying the course and promoting [in theory] only guys that worked their way up through HIS system has left us with a seemingly subpar coaching situation at the moment.

 

[ausbacker]

LBs.
LBs.
LBs.

The Pats old 3-4 had very solid LBs.
They are SORELY missed.

x 2. McGinest, Vrabel, Bruschi, Phifer etc would destroy anything we have atm, Mayo included. That's not to say that the youngens we have can't become as good as these guys, but it takes time.

The thing you notice in that group is they are all playmakers and they're just the linebackers!

 

[Garbanza]

Ok, this isn’t meant to be a whiner post complaining about how much the Pats suck and how awesome the Jets are. But dating back to the middle of last year, I had to start wondering how the Jets went from a below average D to one of the best in the league in just one season. Meanwhile, the Pats have been fielding the same average to slightly-above-average defense for the last 4-5 years.

When you look at the players, the Jets clearly have an advantage in a few areas, but it’s not like they have overwhelming better players (at least IMO). Which leads me to believe it’s more scheme based than anything else.

What do you all think? Again, I’d like this to be a legit forum of discussion. So please let’s not derail this with “The Pats D did enough to win, Brady sucked” discussion (if it can be called “discussion”). I’m more interested in comparing the two defenses and what it is the Jets do so different/better and if we think the Pats will look to incorporate some of their concepts or stick with the status quo.

The Jets do have better personnel in MOST areas. D-back for sure. Lb's for sure. They have a good blend of youth and vets. They have a killer attitude. Personally, I think the Pats defense - minus the d-line - has been mediocre at best the last few years. Not sure where you get better than average.

 

[dhamz]

It's talent. The Jets have more talent right now.

The Pats used to always beat teams that had more "talent" because they played smarter, disciplined football on defense. Now, not so much.

The other teams having more talent post 2001 was always a media myth.

In 2003/2004 Pats had the best front 7 in the NFL led by a deep versatile LB group, an All-pro safety at the top of his game, and Ty Law at CB. The front 7 plus Harrison was so good that they held the defense together in the 2nd half of 2004 with all the CBs hurt.

The talent just isn't anywhere near that level on this defense.

The Jets defense is better because they have better players. They have matched those players to a scheme that maximizes their talents but it starts with the players.

 

[WelshPat]

The Jets defense has some really under rated players. I've watched both Jets games this year and Shawn Ellis is playing at an All Pro level. Bryan Thomas is a solid outside linebacker. Cromartie isn't as good as his pro bowl season but not as bad as his bad year in SD. Pouha (sp?) is a good starter at Nose. The 2 MLBs are really good.

I just think their talent level on D blows ours out of the water

 

[borg]

Rex's D attacks
BB's D plays scared
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Rex's D plays to cause damage
BB's D plays to limit damage
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Rex's D worries about which lane to penetrate
BB's D worries about how big a cushion
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