Why is the Jets D so much more effective than the Pats?

[tombonneau]

Ok, this isn’t meant to be a whiner post complaining about how much the Pats suck and how awesome the Jets are. But dating back to the middle of last year, I had to start wondering how the Jets went from a below average D to one of the best in the league in just one season. Meanwhile, the Pats have been fielding the same average to slightly-above-average defense for the last 4-5 years.

When you look at the players, the Jets clearly have an advantage in a few areas, but it’s not like they have overwhelming better players (at least IMO). Which leads me to believe it’s more scheme based than anything else.

What do you all think? Again, I’d like this to be a legit forum of discussion. So please let’s not derail this with “The Pats D did enough to win, Brady sucked” discussion (if it can be called “discussion”). I’m more interested in comparing the two defenses and what it is the Jets do so different/better and if we think the Pats will look to incorporate some of their concepts or stick with the status quo.

 

[The Dynasty]

Players. The Jets have much better players on defense than the Patriots. Simple as that.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Maybe because their scheme doesn't suck?

 

[DefenseRules]

I think they have a better players and a much better scheme, IMHO.

 

[borg]

Playing to win vs Playing not to lose
Forcing a mistake vs Hoping other QB makes a mistake
Attack vs React

 

[Garbanza]

It's talent. The Jets have more talent right now.

The Pats used to always beat teams that had more "talent" because they played smarter, disciplined football on defense. Now, not so much.

 

[Manning's Pick 6]

I would have to say for the most part it's the players as well. Between '01 -'05 the Pats had the best front 7 in league. They played Belichicks 3-4 about as well as you can play it. They also had much better DB's (Law, Harrison) then they have now.

Our outside LB's are not even close to what they were. Our inside LB's are good but are not the playmakers we used to have. The D-Line is not even close to what it was, and same goes for the DB's.

Hopefully the young players pan out but there will definately be some growing pains like we saw yesterday.

Rex Ryan is one of the top Defensive coaches in the league, and he is a big part of the Jets defensive success, but they clearly have better players on D then the Pats.

 

[DefenseRules]

It's talent. The Jets have more talent right now.

The Pats used to always beat teams that had more "talent" because they played smarter, disciplined football on defense. Now, not so much.

Maybe we just don't have the right players for the scheme. Just a thought.

 

[DefenseRules]

I'll say this. If Butler plays that bad against Buffalo next weekend, they had better take him off the field.

 

[tombonneau]

Interesting that the majority are thinking more player vs. scheme. (Probably should have made this a poll ...)

I also agree that maybe we don't have the right players for the scheme BB wants to run.

Which begs the question: Is he trying to fit square pegs into a round hole? Should BB consider a shift in philosophy to accommodate the current players?

 

[emoney_33]

Interesting that the majority are thinking more player vs. scheme. (Probably should have made this a poll ...)

I also agree that maybe we don't have the right players for the scheme BB wants to run.

Which begs the question: Is he trying to fit square pegs into a round hole? Should BB consider a shift in philosophy to accommodate the current players?

Maybe the limitations of the players have more to do with experience than ability, which can only come with time and patience.

 

[Sicilian]

I'll say this. If Butler plays that bad against Buffalo next weekend, they had better take him off the field.

I would hope so too, especially since I'm expecting McCourty to take their #1 receiver in Evans. Butler will likely be covering a scrub, and as bad as we liked to believe Sanchez is (myself included, still choking down my crow), he has better physical tools than Edwards ever will.

I'm still not going to be worried about the defense until I see them still playing poorly by week 8, but it will not be good sign if they get lit up by this Buffalo squad.

 

[TriplecHamp]

I think they have a better players and a much better scheme, IMHO.

They have a more effective scheme for their players. Brodney Pool is not a better player than anybody in our secondary. Their Passrushers are no better than ours, their ILB are no better than ours. It comes down to scheme and coaching and we were outcoached for the most part yesterday.

 

[Rex Ryan's Gut]

Because of Rex Ryan. No Revis, Jenkins, or Pace, and the defense improves in the second half.

 

[aluminum seats]

Because of Rex Ryan. No Revis, Jenkins, or Pace, and the defense improves in the second half.

It's funny how fans always view games through the prism of their own team without taking into account the other team. Fans of the winning team say "we did this and this" while fans of the losing team say "we didn't do this and that."

Which is a long way of saying you're partly correct in that the Jets' coaching staff (Ryan in this case) did alter their defense. But it's also true the Pats' coaches didn't adjust properly, AND the Pats didn't execute. Bad combo for Pats' fans.

 

[borg]

2.5 seconds

The amount of time a QB has before Freeney and/or Mathis get to the QB. Colt DBs know this and can defend accordingly.
The Patriots on the otherhand have no D difference makers, just bend then react.

 

[Rex Ryan's Gut]

It's funny how fans always view games through the prism of their own team without taking into account the other team. Fans of the winning team say "we did this and this" while fans of the losing team say "we didn't do this and that."

Which is a long way of saying you're partly correct in that the Jets' coaching staff (Ryan in this case) did alter their defense. But it's also true the Pats' coaches didn't adjust properly, AND the Pats didn't execute. Bad combo for Pats' fans.

It's natural. Obviously, I am going to view things through the Jets prism. It's not fascinating.

 

[condon84]

No way it's the players. It's the scheme.

Our read and react scheme was great when you allowed players to grab and hold past 5 yards. It gave our rushers time to rush the QB and was great against the run because we wouldn't get caught up against trapping teams in our two gap system.

However, with the rules emphasizing 5 yard bump, we no longer have the luxury to first read the play, engage blockers, react, and then rush the passer. By that time, receivers are now open. The first fundamental change we did was switch to a 'zone' coverage to give our rushers time to rush the passer. However, today's QBs are too good against zones and will pick them apart. We've tried sub packages to have more speed in the backfield for coverage, but that leaves us open against the run.

The main issue here is the read and react style versus the attacking style that successful defenses are now running. We have the players that can be successful running an attack style defense. Our corners play better when they press and against Cincinnati in the first half, we showed how well we can play when we get after them.

 

[aluminum seats]

It's natural. Obviously, I am going to view things through the Jets prism. It's not fascinating.

Two things. First, I didn't say it was fascinating. Second, it's a limited way to view a game. "It's Rex Ryan." Yeah, ok. But not exactly.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

They have a more effective scheme for their players. Brodney Pool is not a better player than anybody in our secondary. Their Passrushers are no better than ours, their ILB are no better than ours. It comes down to scheme and coaching and we were outcoached for the most part yesterday.

Right on the money. The Jets may have better talent on D, but the disparity in the performance of the two teams stands far beyond the measure of each teams ability as players. The pats' D looks confused or anxious, or both, far too often. Belichick has not done a good job of either teaching these guys what to do or finding a way to use what he has more efficiently. The D has no resilience, they're like a balloon - prick a little hole in them and they're finished in a hurry.

And if BB really believes that the only stat that matters is who has more points at the end of the game then he needs to have a little chit chat with his megastar QB. 14 points? Against a D that wasn't exactly beating the Patriots down. Brady's play in the 2nd second half was the most disappointing aspect of yesterday's game.