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ESPN (Golic) Jets team to beat in the AFCE


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Lets look at the Jets objectively and unemotionally for a moment....

-Cromartie is not the player everyone thinks he is but he is capable of good CB play. We all know he can't tackle worth a damn. Opposite of Revis hes is a fine #2 CB. If he gives them 6 picks and decent play they Jets did a good job in upgrading the spot. Plus he comes cheap.

-As a backup RB w/ 150 or so carries, LT can still give you something. He is a downgrade to Thomas certainly, but Greene is their #1 RB now.

-The Jets have drafted well. Greene and Sanchez should be more productive than last year.

-The Jets had the #1 D in the NFL. They may not be as good as last year, but should still be very good.

-The Jets did well in the playoffs (they were lucky to back into it, but did what they needed to do when it counted).

I never said those deals put the Jets over the top. However, you are kidding yourself if you don't think they are a legitimate pre-season threat to challenge the Pats for the division title. Miami too.

all i'm saying is the acquisition of lt or cromartie doesn't swing the balance for me and golic's opinion means squat. i think anyone who declares a certain team is the favorite for a division they didn't even win the year before, and it's march, has to be a moron. i noticed that describes golic perfectly a long time ago. he's just reaffirming it for me.
 
Lets look at the Jets objectively and unemotionally for a moment....

-Cromartie is not the player everyone thinks he is but he is capable of good CB play. We all know he can't tackle worth a damn. Opposite of Revis hes is a fine #2 CB. If he gives them 6 picks and decent play they Jets did a good job in upgrading the spot. Plus he comes cheap.

-As a backup RB w/ 150 or so carries, LT can still give you something. He is a downgrade to Thomas certainly, but Greene is their #1 RB now.

-The Jets have drafted well. Greene and Sanchez should be more productive than last year.

-The Jets had the #1 D in the NFL. They may not be as good as last year, but should still be very good.

-The Jets did well in the playoffs (they were lucky to back into it, but did what they needed to do when it counted).

I never said those deals put the Jets over the top. However, you are kidding yourself if you don't think they are a legitimate pre-season threat to challenge the Pats for the division title. Miami too.

X2 (10 char)
 
all i'm saying is the acquisition of lt or cromartie doesn't swing the balance for me and golic's opinion means squat. i think anyone who declares a certain team is the favorite for a division they didn't even win the year before, and it's march, has to be a moron. i noticed that describes golic perfectly a long time ago. he's just reaffirming it for me.

the problem is that the jets were a better team at the end of the 2009 campaign

given the same passing game components, don't dismiss the fact that edwards will be there for all of training camp instead of being plugged in during the middle of the season

do not be surprised if they also obtain 1 more highly productive WR

who YOU think is a moron is irrelevant
 
all i'm saying is the acquisition of lt or cromartie doesn't swing the balance for me and golic's opinion means squat. i think anyone who declares a certain team is the favorite for a division they didn't even win the year before, and it's march, has to be a moron. i noticed that describes golic perfectly a long time ago. he's just reaffirming it for me.

Golic is a loudmouth. I do think he is knowledgeable about football but he is paid to be bombastic, opinionated and stir the pot if you will. Can't take him, or any sports radio personality too seriously IMO. They are paid to generate ratings and say outlandish things.

Jets are a unique case IMO. They missed winning the division but went to the AFCCG by winning two games on the road. That says something about their team. I don't think that makes them the odds-on favorites, but they are a threat. That statement is a little softer and much more realistic. Golic would never say that b/c it is not as controversial.
 
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all i'm saying is the acquisition of lt or cromartie doesn't swing the balance for me and golic's opinion means squat. i think anyone who declares a certain team is the favorite for a division they didn't even win the year before, and it's march, has to be a moron. i noticed that describes golic perfectly a long time ago. he's just reaffirming it for me.

1.) With today's 24 hour news cycle, even for sports, people in the business are called upon to make predictions, rankings and the like year round. The "and it's march" argument means absolutely nothing, so calling Golic a moron for making his evaluation is, well, moronic.

2.) You may not like Cromartie or LdT, but that doesn't mean that others have to agree with your opinion. That's really the point of sports talk and message boards. His assertion has you talking about him and, via extension, his show and ESPN.

3.) Golic's opinion means 'squat', yet you felt the need to respond to it on the message board?

4.) Are you saying that after the Patriots went 11-5 in 2008, but didn't win the division, and they had Brady coming back for 2009, you didn't think/declare the Patriots the favorite to win the division in 2009? Come on, now....
 
1.) With today's 24 hour news cycle, even for sports, people in the business are called upon to make predictions, rankings and the like year round. The "and it's march" argument means absolutely nothing, so calling Golic a moron for making his evaluation is, well, moronic.

2.) You may not like Cromartie or LdT, but that doesn't mean that others have to agree with your opinion. That's really the point of sports talk and message boards. His assertion has you talking about him and, via extension, his show and ESPN.

3.) Golic's opinion means 'squat', yet you felt the need to respond to it on the message board?

4.) Are you saying that after the Patriots went 11-5 in 2008, but didn't win the division, and they had Brady coming back for 2009, you didn't think/declare the Patriots the favorite to win the division in 2009? Come on, now....


i didn't start the thread, i'm actually responding to people's responses to it.

as far as 2008, the pats and dolphins had the same record. in 2009 the pats had a better record than the jets.
 
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1.) With today's 24 hour news cycle, even for sports, people in the business are called upon to make predictions, rankings and the like year round. The "and it's march" argument means absolutely nothing, so calling Golic a moron for making his evaluation is, well, moronic.

2.) You may not like Cromartie or LdT, but that doesn't mean that others have to agree with your opinion. That's really the point of sports talk and message boards. His assertion has you talking about him and, via extension, his show and ESPN.

3.) Golic's opinion means 'squat', yet you felt the need to respond to it on the message board?

4.) Are you saying that after the Patriots went 11-5 in 2008, but didn't win the division, and they had Brady coming back for 2009, you didn't think/declare the Patriots the favorite to win the division in 2009? Come on, now....


Tom Brady is a once in a life time player..No body on the Jets is worth what he is worth..plus rex ryan* isnt close to BB.
 
Tom Brady is a once in a life time player..No body on the Jets is worth what he is worth..plus rex ryan* isnt close to BB.

but that's not necessarily enough to offset the deficiencies of the rest of the pats roster
 
You can't compare YPC against two RBs with two very different roles. Is Thomas Jones running on third and 1 or Shonn Greene.

I guess we'll have to disagree on this one. If you want to go that route, then I would suggest looking at Greene's YPC average when he was in the same role as Thomas Jones. Even though defenses were gearing up specifically to stop the running game, Greene averaged 6.4, 5.6, and 4.1 YPC over a three game stretch, the last of which saw the running game abandoned due to falling behind in the score rapidly. Thomas Jones, by comparison, only went over 5.0 YPC twice in the regular season. The first time was against Houston in Week 1, impressive considering Houston had the league's 10th ranked run defense. I watched that game, though, and Houston wasn't dropping extra men into the box nearly as much as playoff teams were doing against Greene. The last time he did it was against Buffalo in Week 6 when he went for 9.5 YPC... against the league's 30th ranked run defense. When Jones faced the type of resistance Greene had in the last few weeks of the regular season, here are his rushing attempts followed by his yardage: vs. Atlanta - 19 attempts for 54 yards, @ Indy - 23 attempts for 105 yards (we all know what happened in that game), vs. Cincy - 27 attempts for 78 yards. Conversely, Greene faced the very same Cincy defense a week after IN Cinncinnati against a team with extra film to gameplan against and whose plan revolved specifically around stopping the run to put the ball in Sanchez's hands. How did Greene do against the same defense that Jones had 27 attempts against? 21 attempts for 135 yards and a TD. By the way, Greene also had 13 attempts for 62 yards the week before, 16 yards less than Jones despite taking 14 less handoffs. But I guess it was all the draws though, right?

As for your predictions of how well Greene will do, you are stating opinions, not facts. You are basing those opinions based on two games.

What I'm actually saying is that I don't see a reason for why Greene should take a step back. He's a good back running behind the best O-Line in the division, and one of the best in the conference. My real purpose in this thread is comparing and contrasting Greene and Jones. In doing so and looking at the stats that I have just posted, I've come to the conclusion that I think Greene is the better RB of the two, and the Jets coaching staff agreed with my assessment last season when Jones became expendable due to Greene's production.

We have no idea how he will perform when he is the guy and teams gameplan for him.

The only thing about this is that teams DID gameplan specifically for him in the playoffs. All three teams that he faced did. Another thing that makes me believe that he probably won't take a step back next year is the possibility of Sanchez improving on his rookie season. If Sanchez improves only a little bit, teams have to respect the pass more than they did in the 2009 playoffs. That opens up even more holes for Greene.

Look at Joseph Addai. You look at a year and a half worth of production and you would think he was going to be a superstar. Since midway through his second season, he has been average at best but mostly mediocre. And you are judging Shonn Greene on two games.

You're not seriously going to try to compare the offensive system, gameplan, and O-Lines that Addai and Greene/Jones run behind, are you?

As for Thomas Jones age and getting older. There is no denying that. That isn't the point. Even if he returned, his production has declined. We have no idea if the return of Jones or giving Greene the reins, was going to give them a 1400 yard, 14 TD back. We won't know until the season starts.

There's simply too many things to take into account here when trying to prove the above statement correct or false. The biggest is whether or not the Jets see an improvement at the quarterback position that allows them to open up the playbook more than they did in 2009. If they do that, while it will open up more holes for the running game, it will also take away from the number of attempts that the backs see.
 
i didn't start the thread, i'm actually responding to people's responses to it.

Your response was to Golic's opinion.

as far as 2008, the pats and dolphins had the same record. in 2009 the pats had a better record than the jets.

That's absolutely irrelevant, because of the very parameters you set out. You made a claim. The claim was a poor one, and I pointed out a very recent and obvious example showing why.
 
Tom Brady is a once in a life time player..No body on the Jets is worth what he is worth..plus rex ryan* isnt close to BB.

Tom Brady was coming off of ACL surgery. Sanchez will be coming off a rookie season.

As for the Rex thing, Ryan outcoached BB in the first matchup and BB had the upper hand in the second. In other words,Ryan split the coaching battle last season, so the "isn't close" argument is a weak one coming off of that. Instead of just knee jerking about an opposing coach because he's a bit of a character, people should be focusing on the job he did with his team. He took a team with a QB that didn't belong in the NFL and got them to the AFCCG.
 
Tom Brady was coming off of ACL surgery. Sanchez will be coming off a rookie season.

As for the Rex thing, Ryan outcoached BB in the first matchup and BB had the upper hand in the second. In other words,Ryan split the coaching battle last season, so the "isn't close" argument is a weak one coming off of that. Instead of just knee jerking about an opposing coach because he's a bit of a character, people should be focusing on the job he did with his team. He took a team with a QB that didn't belong in the NFL and got them to the AFCCG.

In the first game, Brady was in his second game back from a year off and was still only one drive a way from the tie...in the second game, the patriots blew them out of the water..so yea, id say its not close.
 
In the first game, Brady was in his second game back from a year off and was still only one drive a way from the tie...in the second game, the patriots blew them out of the water..so yea, id say its not close.

Now you're just making excuses. Ryan's blitz plan, and his coverage schemes, were huge parts of that win in game one precisely because he was taking advantage of Patriots' weaknesses. You're acting as if doing that is not what coaches are paid for, when it's precisely what coaches are supposed to do.
 
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So here is what I gather from this thread so far:

1. Key true 2nd year starters and a one hit wonder CB for the Jets will definitely improve.

2. None of the Patriots 2nd year starters (in the system or a true sophmore) will improve, therefore they will go 8-8.

Is this accurate?
 
So here is what I gather from this thread so far:

1. Key true 2nd year starters and a one hit wonder CB for the Jets will definitely improve.

2. None of the Patriots 2nd year starters (in the system or a true sophmore) will improve, therefore they will go 8-8.

Is this accurate?

Yea, thats all true, people feel the need to say that stuff so they arent labled as homers.
 
I guess we'll have to disagree on this one. If you want to go that route, then I would suggest looking at Greene's YPC average when he was in the same role as Thomas Jones. Even though defenses were gearing up specifically to stop the running game, Greene averaged 6.4, 5.6, and 4.1 YPC over a three game stretch, the last of which saw the running game abandoned due to falling behind in the score rapidly. Thomas Jones, by comparison, only went over 5.0 YPC twice in the regular season. The first time was against Houston in Week 1, impressive considering Houston had the league's 10th ranked run defense. I watched that game, though, and Houston wasn't dropping extra men into the box nearly as much as playoff teams were doing against Greene. The last time he did it was against Buffalo in Week 6 when he went for 9.5 YPC... against the league's 30th ranked run defense. When Jones faced the type of resistance Greene had in the last few weeks of the regular season, here are his rushing attempts followed by his yardage: vs. Atlanta - 19 attempts for 54 yards, @ Indy - 23 attempts for 105 yards (we all know what happened in that game), vs. Cincy - 27 attempts for 78 yards. Conversely, Greene faced the very same Cincy defense a week after IN Cinncinnati against a team with extra film to gameplan against and whose plan revolved specifically around stopping the run to put the ball in Sanchez's hands. How did Greene do against the same defense that Jones had 27 attempts against? 21 attempts for 135 yards and a TD. By the way, Greene also had 13 attempts for 62 yards the week before, 16 yards less than Jones despite taking 14 less handoffs. But I guess it was all the draws though, right?

You are comparing a three game stretch vs. an entire season. But you can compare the stats of many players three game stretch vs. an entire season of another and get a skewed result.



What I'm actually saying is that I don't see a reason for why Greene should take a step back. He's a good back running behind the best O-Line in the division, and one of the best in the conference. My real purpose in this thread is comparing and contrasting Greene and Jones. In doing so and looking at the stats that I have just posted, I've come to the conclusion that I think Greene is the better RB of the two, and the Jets coaching staff agreed with my assessment last season when Jones became expendable due to Greene's production.

Except you are comparing a three game stretch of one player vs. an entire season of another. It doesn't neccessarily work that way.


The only thing about this is that teams DID gameplan specifically for him in the playoffs. All three teams that he faced did. Another thing that makes me believe that he probably won't take a step back next year is the possibility of Sanchez improving on his rookie season. If Sanchez improves only a little bit, teams have to respect the pass more than they did in the 2009 playoffs. That opens up even more holes for Greene.

I totally disagree with that. Until the playoffs, Thomas Jones was the lead back and had more rushes than Greene. Greene rushed for 15 or more time in a game in the season twice (garbage time vs. Oakland and garbage time vs. Indy). The only time that Greene rushed for 20 or more times was the first two games of the playoffs which could have caught boh opponents off guard because they were expecting Jones.



You're not seriously going to try to compare the offensive system, gameplan, and O-Lines that Addai and Greene/Jones run behind, are you?

Never compared the offensive system or o-lines. But while we are, the reason why Addai fell apart has nothing to do with his offensive system and gameplan which didn't really change from when he was a rookie to today all that much. It had to do with the player. If the Colts significantly changed their system or o-line (their o-lie was already in flux after Tarik Glenn retired), then I would agree you have a point. I will argue having Manning as your QB makes it as easy to run as a great o-line because you can never put eight in the box against the Colts.


There's simply too many things to take into account here when trying to prove the above statement correct or false. The biggest is whether or not the Jets see an improvement at the quarterback position that allows them to open up the playbook more than they did in 2009. If they do that, while it will open up more holes for the running game, it will also take away from the number of attempts that the backs see.

And what if the passing game gets worse? There is no guarantees that Sanchez will get better or he does, that he gets significantly better. Sanchez was 2-8 this past season when he threw 20 or more times. I doubt Ryan will open up the offense all that much more unless he is forced to or he significantly upgrades his receiving corp.

What if the o-line becoming more of a pass blocking team takes away some of their run blocking agression. We have seen that happen to the Patriots, why couldn't it happen to the Jets.

What if teams don't respect Sanchez enough and continue to put eight in the box? Can Greene take the offense on his shoulders for 16 games like Jones did? The jury is out.
 
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I thought the Jets were a worthy foe before the Cromartie or LT signings. They did do a decent job drafting last year as well.

I hate to say it but the Jests seem to know what they are doing down there.

LT is a downgrade from Jones.
Cromartie is at best an equal liability to Lito Sheppard.
At best, they stayed even, I dont know how this represents an upgrade.
 
LT is a downgrade from Jones.
Cromartie is at best an equal liability to Lito Sheppard.
At best, they stayed even, I dont know how this represents an upgrade.

Read my follow on post.
 
Greene is an upgrade over Jones (who was clearly spent at the end of the season)

LT gives them a pass catching RB which they needed because Leon Washington won't be fully healthy and most likely will be traded by them for a 2nd round pick.

Cromartie is a huge upgrade over Sheppherd, surrounding him with all their defensive talent and putting him in a scheme that plays to his strengths. Big pick-up for them. Sheppherd was benched for some scrub name Dwight Lowery.

Once BB gets rid of Adalius Thomas, he'll provide the occasional pass rush for them. Knows the system well, surrounded by better defensive talent.

Sanchez is going to be a stud in this league, year 2 he'll be more than a caretaker.

Add some draft picks, another year in the systems and they are clearly better than last year and indeed the team to beat in the AFC East.
 
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Greene is an upgrade over Jones (who was clearly spent at the end of the season)

LT gives them a pass catching RB which they needed because Leon Washington won't be fully healthy and most likely will be traded by them for a 2nd round pick.

Cromartie is a huge upgrade over Sheppherd, surrounding him with all their defensive talent and putting him in a scheme that plays to his strengths. Big pick-up for them. Sheppherd was benched for some scrub name Dwight Lowery.

Once BB gets rid of Adalius Thomas, he'll provide the occasional pass rush for them. Knows the system well, surrounded by better defensive talent.

Sanchez is going to be a stud in this league, year 2 he'll be more than a caretaker.

Add some draft picks, another year in the systems and they are clearly better than last year and indeed the team to beat in the AFC East.

Spoken like a true Jets fan pretending to be a Pats fan.
 
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