DE-Ranks and Values

[Ochmed Jones]

I definitely see us taking an olb graham/kindle/hughes at 22.

Why one of these three?

Graham is short and has short arms. Ferguson and Long would eat him for breakfast.
Hughes is short and has only two pass rushing moves. Ferguson and Long would eat him for lunch.
Kindle never met a running play where he couldn't get completely washed out. Ferguson and Long would drive block him to the hospital by the end of the first running play.

 

[bucky]

Why one of these three?

Graham is short and has short arms. Ferguson and Long would eat him for breakfast.
Hughes is short and has only two pass rushing moves. Ferguson and Long would eat him for lunch.
Kindle never met a running play where he couldn't get completely washed out. Ferguson and Long would drive block him to the hospital by the end of the first running play.

This "Ferguson and Long" guy sounds like a real beast. Who's he going to eat for Breakfast?

Sounds like we need some toughness. Here's a guy I bet Ferguson and Long couldn't even get their teeth on:

Deaderick or Washington: Which Alabama DE would you draft? | al.com

"Was arrested on July 14, 2007 and charged with giving a false name to police, resisting arrest, and criminal mischief (for cracking the window inside a patrol car with his head). Was shot in 2009 by a would-be car thief. Deaderick confronted the thief and was shot once. The bullet went through his arm, through his hip and out of an area near his groin. Showing his toughness, Deaderick suited up and played against Virginia Tech less than five days later."

 

[bbell31]

Why one of these three?

Graham is short and has short arms. Ferguson and Long would eat him for breakfast.
Hughes is short and has only two pass rushing moves. Ferguson and Long would eat him for lunch.
Kindle never met a running play where he couldn't get completely washed out. Ferguson and Long would drive block him to the hospital by the end of the first running play.

lol this is coming from the guy who still thinks we should draft mt. cody and mcclain and possibly a corner...riiiiiiight ur best bet would be to stick to ref n' the games bro

 

[CTHuskies]

Letting Green walk, and trying to sign Peppers, says to me we are in for more 4-3 front. So if I'm the Patriots I would put highest value on a 4-3 DE who can play that role in their first year and hopefully grow into the OLB position. there are a lot of candidates this year who are like that.

I don’t know why OLB Everson Griffen USC isn’t getting more love for Pats at #22? I think we can get wither Corey Wooten or Alex Carrington in 2nd round or Clifton Geathers in 4th to fill the “Seymour” role.

 

[dryheat44]

Why one of these three?

Graham is short and has short arms. Ferguson and Long would eat him for breakfast.
Hughes is short and has only two pass rushing moves. Ferguson and Long would eat him for lunch.
Kindle never met a running play where he couldn't get completely washed out. Ferguson and Long would drive block him to the hospital by the end of the first running play.

I'll bet Ferguson couldn't handle Hughes one-on-one. Hughes would be past D'Brick before he could even set up. There's not an OLB prospect in the draft that has a quicker first step than Hughes.

 

[bbell31]

ochmed is a bit lost dryheat

 

[jays52]

While it's not always a constant, there is something to be said for the smaller fringe guys. NFL tackles are becoming taller and taller annually. This is in large part due to the height of the defenders. 6'7 defensive ends, 6'5 4/5 techs ect..require a long armed, lean tackle to negate this length advantage.

Enter the smaller guy with good leverage and foot quickness. Most blocking is done upwards to stand the opponent up. The smaller guys give the super tall tackles fits as they consistently win the leverage battle and whirlwind their way past those long, cumbersome arms. I don't know the stats, but I'm willing to bet that Dumervil and Freeny have had some of their best games against the behemoths. Freeny has said Matt Light in his prime was his toughest matchup, which makes a lot of sense when you consider what I just wrote.

However, when you look at OLB in the 34, arm length plays a huge role. The shorter ends in the 43 have the luxury of the Will occupying the area in back of them. 34 backers don't have this, so the length plays a pretty significant role in pass defense. Further, they usually are tasked with extending TE's and pulling guards instead of tackles on run plays. With the majority of these players in the low to mid 6' range, the longer the linebacker, the greater the advantage in getting an effective lockout.

Just some food for thought when evaluating these guys. Defensive ends rush the passer and turn stuff in. Linebackers play linebacker.

 

[SunnyDenmark]

I agree Suh is a great prospect, but I see 2 problems with that idea:

1) I don't think the Lions would take what you're offering. Last year, the Jets gave up 17, 57 and 2 marginal starters to move up to 5. They actually made a good deal, but it's arguably more than you're offering. And getting to #2 is much tougher. Add to that the fact that other teams will be trying to trade up for Suh, and you're probably talking 22, 44, 53 and next year's #1 - maybe.

2) Last year's #2 pick signed a contract with $33 mil in guarantees and up to $61 mil in value. That surpasses Vince's contract of $25 mil guaranteed and $40 mil total value. Suh might end up being a better player, but I don't think it's a good business move for the team. Won't sit well with guys like Vince, Moss, perhaps even Brady.

Very good points. As much as we all have a man-crush on Suh, the reasons above just outweight the level of talent. While he is about as close as you can get to a 'sure thing' - there is no such thing in the real world. He could celebrate after draft night and do a Lenny Bias. Or someone could come into his home in a year or two and Suh become the next Sean Taylor. Or he could do a Dymetrius Byrd and have a bad car wreck. I could go on and on. Unfortuneatly bad things happen to good people. (or could even be more football related and he could slip on the field & tear ACL- see Welker)....

Moral of the story - don't put all your eggs in one basket. Diversify your portfolio. By far most of the Pro Bowlers each year are 1st and 2nd rounders. Take the three or four picks in the top 53 and there is a very good likelyhood 2-3 of those picks will be dependable starters for the next many years to come and 1 maybe even 2 will be pro-bowlers in a few years.

We have TB and BB which means we always will have a chance at the playoffs each year. We need a few more decent starters and the continued development of our kiddies on defense (which will happen with time in a young gelling defense). We dont need to roll the dice and go 'all in' on a one shot deal. Suh is not the one final piece to 'put Pats over the top'. A step in the right direction - no doubt but the likely 3 high picks you trade for him mean likely 3 lost starters (TE, OLB, WR?) PLUS the 'all in one basket' risks detailed above. Plus Buckys points about $$$, locker room chemistry, etc.

 

[mcsully]

Yes or no...can wilfork play end in our 3-4? If so, would it make sense to draft another dominant nose tackle (I.e. Terrance Cody) and let Cody and brace handle the nose while Vince dominates on the end?

Mike Reiss (12:33 PM)


Yes, Wilfork can play end

Guess Reiss and I think a like..