Jaws says Moss gave a great effort last Sunday

[emoney_33]

EDIT: Please read the whole post. The tone gets better toward the end

But we did hear it. You can't wish it away to aide your arguement. 4 players who wern't producing went home. Period.

Once again you throw the "who weren't producing". Are you honest to completely serious right now? In all honesty, you completely just ignore the being late part (coupled with the Monday message of get here early). Guys like Tedy Bruschi have flat out told you this is not abnormal and has happened before.

My point is that there are potentially several issues that have frustrated Moss which has led him to perform below his average. Could be playcalling too. Could be defense. It makes way too much sense. Don't understand why can't see that

Once again you just can't get over the fact that any frustration on Moss' part does NOT automatically equate to poor play or poor production. You are conceding only that other things could be frustrating Moss. But you continue to say that Moss production is only low because he is frustrated. It's ridiculous. So Moss isn't getting throws his way because he is frustrated, yea nice argument. Is that the polite way to accuse him of dogging it?

For the last 4 games, Randy is underperforming and there is a cause that goes beyond schemes and players.

For the last 4 games, Randy's production has seen a dip. You have no idea how much of that is related to Moss himself vs. all the tons of other factors that have and have not been discussed. But keep blaming him for underperforming while absolving Brady, O'Brien, and the o-line. Also give no credit to opponents. If Randy doesn't catch 6 passes at the least, he's not performing!

Brady and BB flat out told you that coverages were dictating that they couldn't really throw Moss' way much on Sunday. Brady also hinted at the fact that part of the gameplan is recognizing this and exploiting other advantages. You simply want to harp on the end stat of his production numbers. And you want that to mean something is wrong with Moss. It's baffling. I may be the most vocal about this, but there are many posters here who are just ignoring this type of thing because it's so absurd.

Not saying it's all Moss fault. See my comments on Brady and the playcalling.

Your comments are other things could contribute to Moss being frustrated, but in the end it's all Moss' frustration that causes his stats to go down. You didn't even leave open any possibility of something else 100% out of Randy's control being DIRECTLY responsible for him not getting the ball.

Effort- yes. Focus- you have got to be kidding me.

I'm not kidding you. How many attempted passes have gone to Moss in those games? Are you saying his focus is preventing him from getting pass attempts? Don't beat around the bush here? You just said his EFFORT was fine, how in the world can focus make Brady not pass Moss the ball if his EFFORT is there?

Agree. Very possible. IMO unlikely.

Well at least you finally conceded possibility, although I may question your motives if you claim it is unlikely. It's not Moss' reputation though right. I mean his saying NO to reporters just make them all giddy, none of them would ever say/write an undeservedly bad thing about him.

See bold. Thanks for acknowledging that as possible. Before you dismissed it.

Kind of like you did above?

I'm sure you've played sports. When you are frustrated or what have you, you press and can easily lose focus. Very easily. Happens to HoFers like Moss.

Every professional athlete gets frustrated. However as professionals they are much better trained/able to NOT lose focus. It's not easy for a professional athlete to lose focus. Maybe it's easy for us back street or for-fun leaguers but professional athletes (and especially HOFers) would not produce as they do if they so easily lost focus.

I'm saying that hes underperforming and that there is a single or multiple reason. I don't subscribe to lack of effort. I do subscribe to the lack of focus. You already knew that though.

Well then I don't know what to tell ya. I don't know what world you live in where there is ever a single reason for anything.

Nowhere close to desperation. Your position inthis argument is one of prove me. You can say that all day long, which is fine. I still think you are failing to see the big picture and the events that have led us to this point. I'll bet ya a beer that there is more to this whole Moss-production thing. It will come out.

Sorry if I come off as "prove-it" in this argument, as obviously there is no possible way to prove anything here. I'm just thrown off by the entire assertion that Moss is somehow slacking. I'm probably overreacting to your thoughts of his focus, but can you blame me with people like Rhody throwing around their crap.

Focus is such a bad thing to debate anyway, there's no way to determine one's focus. Every single player is not going to be at their best every play or every game. The patriots as a whole need to continue to improve, and that includes every single player on the team including Randy Moss. And Moss if you are listening, I'm not absolving you completely. Please do not go out and get 1-2 receptions a game from here on out, thanks!

I also put stock in what Tedy B said which is that Randy wont quit, but was frustrated Sunday.

Hey as long as you don't nitpick certain things about what people say.

Brady and BB have gone WAY out of their way to defend Randy. It's unpreccedented. I'm glad that they are doing it but its highly irregular.

It's rather unprecedented to have a HOF player who does nothing but help the team and has the most +EV of any receiver in the league yet have the media bombard you with questions of his work ethic and effort. They see the guy every day, they witness him working his butt off, and then they have to listen to the idiots in the media tear him to shreds and question his heart. Is it surprising they ANSWERED the media's questions?

Been following this team way too long where my gut tells me something is going on. No need to dig. It's all right there.

Just remember most of what you "follow" is given to you by the media. I'm just saying, the CAN manipulate things and tell you only what they want you to hear. Don't forget Randy Moss walks by these guys every day and doesn't acknowledge them. They must feel like 2nd class citizens as human beings. It has to hurt their pride and ego to be treated like that, so in turn whether intentionally or emotionally, they write/report with bias.

We really just need to stop nitpicking on our superstars. The guys that make us a better team just by stepping on the field don't deserve so much mircoscopic criticism, that's my biggest issue I think.

 

[emoney_33]

I included the entire Brady quote in the effort to be fair an balanced. I don't understand why you believe that I am twisting his words for my benefit. I don't need benefit. It's all rght there.

The TB quote was outstanding. Thank you. "It's tough to stay focused". I didn't want to run up the score on you

Agreed but when Brady says that "Randy was just frustrated out there today" and later said that "he needs to get over it" smacks of lack of focus.

I just wanted to show you that your paraphrase was pretty unfairly biased. "he needs to get over it" does not trully paraphrase what was said. And what was said was more general for every player. And what Troy Brown confirmed as normal for Brady to tell to everyone. So it's not like you can say no brady doesn't feel that way about anyone but Moss.

 

[BernardPollard]

In my limited viewing of the patriots, it looks to me that randy jogs some of his routes. Idk why. Also, the interception sunday looked preventable had he made an effort to put his arms up

 

[emoney_33]

Please ban the scum that just posted before me

 

[BernardPollard]

Please ban the scum that just posted before me

Relax dude the pats are my favorite team behind the chiefs. Tom is also my favorite qb of all time.

 

[RobertWeathers]

EDIT: Please read the whole post. The tone gets better toward the end

Once again you throw the "who weren't producing". Are you honest to completely serious right now? In all honesty, you completely just ignore the being late part (coupled with the Monday message of get here early). Guys like Tedy Bruschi have flat out told you this is not abnormal and has happened before. .

I concur that it is not abnormal and what is abnormal is finding out about it. What I can't comprehend is that you continue to ignore that 4 non-producing players who BB deem as not putting forth the type of committment on/off the field that he needs are convienently THE ONLY ONES sent home. Still scratch my head why a smart person like you can't read b/t/w the lines on that one...

Once again you just can't get over the fact that any frustration on Moss' part does NOT automatically equate to poor play or poor production. You are conceding only that other things could be frustrating Moss. But you continue to say that Moss production is only low because he is frustrated. It's ridiculous. So Moss isn't getting throws his way because he is frustrated, yea nice argument. Is that the polite way to accuse him of dogging it? .

Focus is not frustration. Focus is not dogging. Lack of focus leads to crappy execution.

For the last 4 games, Randy's production has seen a dip. You have no idea how much of that is related to Moss himself vs. all the tons of other factors that have and have not been discussed. But keep blaming him for underperforming while absolving Brady, O'Brien, and the o-line. Also give no credit to opponents. If Randy doesn't catch 6 passes at the least, he's not performing! .

Never said any of this. I ask you to recant this entire paragraph. You are reaching.

Brady and BB flat out told you that coverages were dictating that they couldn't really throw Moss' way much on Sunday. Brady also hinted at the fact that part of the gameplan is recognizing this and exploiting other advantages. You simply want to harp on the end stat of his production numbers. And you want that to mean something is wrong with Moss. It's baffling. I may be the most vocal about this, but there are many posters here who are just ignoring this type of thing because it's so absurd. .

Spare me. Like you've never covered for someone even though you knew that they messed up. Just like Moss woudn't say that Brady made a crappy through. Thats teammates 101 speak. C'mon. What else you got?

Your comments are other things could contribute to Moss being frustrated, but in the end it's all Moss' frustration that causes his stats to go down. You didn't even leave open any possibility of something else 100% out of Randy's control being DIRECTLY responsible for him not getting the ball. .

Nope. Go back and read my posts. I mention many possible factors such as Brady's health, O'Brians crappy playcalling, D etc. I just dont think they are the root cause.

I'm not kidding you. How many attempted passes have gone to Moss in those games? Are you saying his focus is preventing him from getting pass attempts? Don't beat around the bush here? You just said his EFFORT was fine, how in the world can focus make Brady not pass Moss the ball if his EFFORT is there? .

Lack of focus leads to bad route-running, reading coverages, sight adjustments, sitting in the soft part of the zones, hand postion, tucking the ball away so not to fumble. You can give 110% effort, but if you dont execute the play and implement the technique, you will not be sucessful. C'mon. You know this!

Well at least you finally conceded possibility, although I may question your motives if you claim it is unlikely. It's not Moss' reputation though right. I mean his saying NO to reporters just make them all giddy, none of them would ever say/write an undeservedly bad thing about him..

Moss has done nothing to make me think his effort is less than 100%. Nice try to bate me though...Good effort.

Kind of like you did above? .

Nice try.

Every professional athlete gets frustrated. However as professionals they are much better trained/able to NOT lose focus. It's not easy for a professional athlete to lose focus. Maybe it's easy for us back street or for-fun leaguers but professional athletes (and especially HOFers) would not produce as they do if they so easily lost focus. .

Are you saying that Randy Moss has never lost focus? Yes or No?

Well then I don't know what to tell ya. I don't know what world you live in where there is ever a single reason for anything..

Happens all the time in life. Sometimes theres one. Sometimes is compounded. C'mon.

Sorry if I come off as "prove-it" in this argument, as obviously there is no possible way to prove anything here. I'm just thrown off by the entire assertion that Moss is somehow slacking. I'm probably overreacting to your thoughts of his focus, but can you blame me with people like Rhody throwing around their crap..

If there was a way to prove it, this thread would never be happening..

Moss is not a slacker.

Don't pay attention to Rhody. Not worth the effort.

Focus is such a bad thing to debate anyway, there's no way to determine one's focus. Every single player is not going to be at their best every play or every game. The patriots as a whole need to continue to improve, and that includes every single player on the team including Randy Moss. And Moss if you are listening, I'm not absolving you completely. Please do not go out and get 1-2 receptions a game from here on out, thanks! .

I agree. The only guy I KNEW had focus 100% of the time was Daniel LaRusso.

Hey as long as you don't nitpick certain things about what people say. .

I do nitpick. Thats my gift.

It's rather unprecedented to have a HOF player who does nothing but help the team and has the most +EV of any receiver in the league yet have the media bombard you with questions of his work ethic and effort. They see the guy every day, they witness him working his butt off, and then they have to listen to the idiots in the media tear him to shreds and question his heart. Is it surprising they ANSWERED the media's questions?.

The media are fools. It's classic Us vs Them. I love the defense of Randy. I wish he would do it himself but thats not his makeup...

Just remember most of what you "follow" is given to you by the media. I'm just saying, the CAN manipulate things and tell you only what they want you to hear. Don't forget Randy Moss walks by these guys every day and doesn't acknowledge them. They must feel like 2nd class citizens as human beings. It has to hurt their pride and ego to be treated like that, so in turn whether intentionally or emotionally, they write/report with bias. .

No question.

We really just need to stop nitpicking on our superstars. The guys that make us a better team just by stepping on the field don't deserve so much mircoscopic criticism, that's my biggest issue I think.

I hear you, but it's natural to want to investigate why they are not performing as a level that they are us as fans are accustomed to-especially when you KNOW that their performance has a direct impact on the season's success. Just as it's natural to defend an athlete who you appreciate and enjoy watching play.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

I haven't read every post in these Moss threads, but from the some I've read, the ones who attended the game seem to have a different view than the ones who saw it on tv.

Has anyone ever heard of NASA's Blue Beam Project? This is no joke - the mass media has the technology tools to make up stuff even IN LIVE action.

7:00 minute mark
YouTube - Project Blue Beam (Part 1)

 

[IcyPatriot]

I haven't read every post in these Moss threads, but from the some I've read, the ones who attended the game seem to have a different view than the ones who saw it on tv.

Has anyone ever heard of NASA's Blue Beam Project? This is no joke - the mass media has the technology tools to make up stuff even IN LIVE action.

7:00 minute mark
YouTube - Project Blue Beam (Part 1)

There is no substitute for being at a game ... well ... unless you got the all-22.
I wish I could make every game home and away. You get to enjoy all the aspects of the game especially special teams play is great.

 

[Satchboogie3]

I haven't read every post in these Moss threads, but from the some I've read, the ones who attended the game seem to have a different view than the ones who saw it on tv.

Has anyone ever heard of NASA's Blue Beam Project? This is no joke - the mass media has the technology tools to make up stuff even IN LIVE action.

7:00 minute mark
YouTube - Project Blue Beam (Part 1)

Project Blue Beam, HAARP, it's an interesting theory, but the scope of the conspiracy is far fetched

 

[Rob0729]

I don't think there's any "thumping" going on here. Heck this whole thing is confusing to a lot of us because so many people needed Jaws and others to tell them Moss didn't quit. Now to make this about one single play out of the 71 that Moss played is a little overboard. However, I will once again reiterate that there is no way that any single person aside from Moss knows for a fact what he did on that play. I'm not going to demand you believe me, but the fact of the matter is the DB had outside coverage and Brady was rushed. You can bring up as many quotes as you want, as much analysis as you want (conveniently ignoring Brady's statement that precisely "you can't blame that on Moss") but it doesn't make your opinion right. It is just as likely if not MORE likely that Moss read outside coverage and cut his route off short expecting an inside throw if one at all.

First I wasn't directing this at you. There are others who are acting like Jaws is definitive proof calling out all the "Moss haters" and ignoring that he did admit he thought Moss dogged it on that play. You weren't the only one who argued with me about the play and you aren't thumping your chest like others.

Brady got rushed and made a read/decision, Moss was caught offguard without enough time to recover and stopped the INT. There's many questions there like did brady make the right read, did the pressure cause a bad throw etc... However you continuously want to harp on the unknown question of "did Moss read outside coverage or did he just not think he was getting the ball so didn't feel like running his route". Aside from his reputation, nothing else really suggests the latter.

Jaws and Golic talked about the laziness of Moss' route on that play, not the things you are talking about. Some of those may be valid points, but on that specific play he sure looked like he dogged it and even Jaws felt that way from the coaches' film. My only point.

You are on the side of the argument that whatever Jaws says go. Sorry if I don't blindly follow the word of Jaws like you. I saw the play, I saw the replay, I saw it from different angles, I saw it in slow-mo. There's no way anything can factually give you Moss' intent on that play. I however can note more facts of that play than simply "Moss cut his route short".

But please let's move on from this, Randy Moss is the exact OPPOSITE of a problem for the New England Patriots. Let's move on to nitpicking and deciphering someone else's body language now.

I don't take what Jaws says as whatever he says goes. I was pointing out to the people who are thumping their chests that if you going to use Jaws as proof the "Moss haters" were wrong and should grovel, they need to acknowledge that Jaws said that Moss dogged it on the INT. They can't cherry pick his comments.

As for Moss being the problem, right now Brady to Moss is a problem. Eight of 11 of Brady's INTs were passes intended to Moss. Moss has had six catches in the last three games and it has declined by a reception each game.

Now I am not putting all the blame on Moss. He deserves a share whether it is 5% of the blame or 95%. I haven't studied the tapes to see why there is a problem. It is clear you can point to a number of reasons including Moss, Brady, the blocking, and the coaching. I know several of the INTs were clearly Brady's fault. The play calling has been shoddy at times. I have seen breakdowns in Brady's protection. I have seen Moss not fight for the ball at times.

Moss has been clearly a problem in the last month, but I am not prepared to say it is all or even mostly Moss' fault. I think there are many helpings of the blame pie to go around on that. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away though.

 

[Patspsycho]

Ain't no disagreement with Jaws.

 

[mb6592]

I have taken my lumps like a man, but do think several people who trashed me for stating that Moss dogged it on the INT are thumping their chests right now when Jaws stated clearly that Moss did dog it on that play.

Here is from PFT about Jaws' radio appearance:



Belichick evades question about whether game film shows Moss quit | ProFootballTalk.com

So let's not get all high and mighty. Jaws conceeded that Moss dogged it on the INT and deserved at least part of the responsibility for it. The Moss defenders were not 100% right Moss did dog it at least one play and it was the play that had the most argument this week.

I apologized for my part and admit I was wrong that he dogged it the entire game where he dogged it on the INT. Maybe you guys should consider the same. You can't cherry pick Jaws' comments.

You people are nuts. I don't recall anyone saying he dogged it the entire game. We all saw the nice blocks on the running plays. The general consensus by those of us concerned with Moss' performance was that he seemed to let those negative plays affect him. I accept what Jaworski has to say and add it to the other opinions:

“He didn’t play as hard as he could,” ex-Pats safety and NBC analyst Rodney Harrison said on “Football Night in America.”

"He was frustrated in himself and the situation, and it's something you've got to fight through," Brady said. "You have those days where it's not all great, but you keep lining up and you've got to keep fighting."

"We knew he'd shut it down." "He'd just give up a lot; slow down; he's not going deep; not trying to run a route. You can tell (by) his body language," said Panthers cornerback Chris Gamble. "I know everyone who plays against him, they can sense that. Once you get into him in the beginning of the game, he shuts it down a little bit."

Peter King: “You've seen Tom Brady and Bill Belichick staunchly defend Randy Moss in the last 36 hours, and so you're thinking, ‘Well, maybe the media's being too hard on Moss for laying down against Carolina.’ Not true. There's a reason Brady, desperate for another target at receiver other than Wes Welker, threw four of his 32 passes for Moss on Sunday, and went 2.5 quarters without throwing a pass Moss' way after Moss fumbled on the first play of the second quarter. It's because Moss checked out of this game, giving only marginal effort. But the reason you won't ever hear Belichick or Brady even remotely chide Moss is because they know -- as Denny Green knew a decade ago and Mike Tice knew after him -- that Moss will check out totally if you challenge him mentally. He's soft. And Brady and Belichick are trying to get whatever they can out of this classic prima donna as they try to save their season. Sitting on him doesn't accomplish that.”

"For me, I was very shocked," Rice said today during a guest spot on SportsCenter. "The thing about Randy Moss -- we know that he takes a few plays off, but just watching him during that game, he didn't have any effort at all. You want your best play maker to be playing his best around this time and it was unfortunate to see what he did yesterday."

Cris Carter: "Well for one, you can not watch that without it having an effect on you. If you're a football enthusiast, if you're a Patriots fan, for me as someone who teaches wide receivers, how to be wide receivers and how to run routes and what type of effort to give and stuff it would take, it was pathetic. I was shocked because I know it's in him, but I thought he had matured to the point where I wasn't going to see it anymore."

"If you're a quarterback, you throw picks, you throw bad balls. If you're a receiver, you drop balls. If you're a running back, you fumble balls. You know, it's just part of the process," Brady said. "It's about making the next one a good one and not making the next one a bad one because you're a little bit down in the dumps."

 

[mb6592]

You are on the side of the argument that whatever Jaws says go.

More irony from our resident Moss stalker...

 

[mb6592]

First I wasn't directing this at you. There are others who are acting like Jaws is definitive proof calling out all the "Moss haters" and ignoring that he did admit he thought Moss dogged it on that play.

Jesus, does this guy have some kind of mind meld thing working. Why do people continue to engage him? His defense of Moss is creepy. I don't defend my kids the way he has defended Moss. I allow that maybe others' opinions may hold some validity and at least withhold some judgment. No?

 

[Satchboogie3]

You people are nuts. I don't recall anyone saying he dogged it the entire game. We all saw the nice blocks on the running plays. The general consensus by those of us concerned with Moss' performance was that he seemed to let those negative plays affect him. I accept what Jaworski has to say and add it to the other opinions:

“He didn’t play as hard as he could,” ex-Pats safety and NBC analyst Rodney Harrison said on “Football Night in America.”

"He was frustrated in himself and the situation, and it's something you've got to fight through," Brady said. "You have those days where it's not all great, but you keep lining up and you've got to keep fighting."

"We knew he'd shut it down." "He'd just give up a lot; slow down; he's not going deep; not trying to run a route. You can tell (by) his body language," said Panthers cornerback Chris Gamble. "I know everyone who plays against him, they can sense that. Once you get into him in the beginning of the game, he shuts it down a little bit."

Peter King: “You've seen Tom Brady and Bill Belichick staunchly defend Randy Moss in the last 36 hours, and so you're thinking, ‘Well, maybe the media's being too hard on Moss for laying down against Carolina.’ Not true. There's a reason Brady, desperate for another target at receiver other than Wes Welker, threw four of his 32 passes for Moss on Sunday, and went 2.5 quarters without throwing a pass Moss' way after Moss fumbled on the first play of the second quarter. It's because Moss checked out of this game, giving only marginal effort. But the reason you won't ever hear Belichick or Brady even remotely chide Moss is because they know -- as Denny Green knew a decade ago and Mike Tice knew after him -- that Moss will check out totally if you challenge him mentally. He's soft. And Brady and Belichick are trying to get whatever they can out of this classic prima donna as they try to save their season. Sitting on him doesn't accomplish that.”

"For me, I was very shocked," Rice said today during a guest spot on SportsCenter. "The thing about Randy Moss -- we know that he takes a few plays off, but just watching him during that game, he didn't have any effort at all. You want your best play maker to be playing his best around this time and it was unfortunate to see what he did yesterday."

Cris Carter: "Well for one, you can not watch that without it having an effect on you. If you're a football enthusiast, if you're a Patriots fan, for me as someone who teaches wide receivers, how to be wide receivers and how to run routes and what type of effort to give and stuff it would take, it was pathetic. I was shocked because I know it's in him, but I thought he had matured to the point where I wasn't going to see it anymore."

"If you're a quarterback, you throw picks, you throw bad balls. If you're a receiver, you drop balls. If you're a running back, you fumble balls. You know, it's just part of the process," Brady said. "It's about making the next one a good one and not making the next one a bad one because you're a little bit down in the dumps."

The 1 fact that matters: 2 people actually looked at the coache's tape and came to a different conclusion.

 

[patsfan-1982]

ya he gave a great effort he opned up was welker to have a big game

 

[mb6592]

The 1 fact that matters: 2 people actually looked at the coache's tape and came to a different conclusion.

You see, I don't see how looking at the coaches tape matters that much. As anyone who has ever wrestled can attest to - you can wrestle hard for 2:58, let up for just a couple of seconds, get taken down and lose a match that way. Likewise, you take a couple of plays off or just lose focus for a couple of plays out of the 70 - and if they are keys plays - you lose a game. That's the way it works.

 

[mb6592]

ya he gave a great effort he opned up was welker to have a big game

I agree. That changes nothing. The question is did he lose focus or take a few plays "off"? Are those who called him out just crazy? Is there a conspiracy against Moss?

 

[Satchboogie3]

Jesus, does this guy have some kind of mind meld thing working. Why do people continue to engage him? His defense of Moss is creepy. I don't defend my kids the way he has defended Moss. I allow that maybe others' opinions may hold some validity and at least withhold some judgment. No?

Would you be a little passionate to defend someone who has been unfairly blasted by everyone? Everyone in the media has used this as an opportunity to take a shot at Randy.

 

[mb6592]

Would you be a little passionate to defend someone who has been unfairly blasted by everyone? Everyone in the media has used this as an opportunity to take a shot at Randy.

"a little passionate"? - Yes. But, (like, I stated) "I don't defend my kids the way he has defended Moss. I allow that maybe others' opinions may hold some validity and at least withhold some judgment. No?"