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Jaws says Moss gave a great effort last Sunday

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Rob0729, Dec 18, 2009.

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  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Only got part of the interview, but Jaws was on Mike and Mike and he said from the "All 22" or coaches' film, it was clear Moss gave a "great effort". Jaws is the best in the game at breaking down film and isn't a moron like Merrill Hoge who uses hyperbole to basterdize his points. Unlike Hoge he did give a cogent analysis without making excuses for Moss on his bad plays and not stating hyberbolic things like it was one of his best games away from the ball in his career.

    I trust his opinion on game film more than any other on air analyst. So I after hearing from people who actually saw the game film, I am ready to conceed it was three bad plays (and we can argue whether he quit on those plays forever) and defer to Jaws and the guys who broke down the film. Any one else?

    Because I hate Moss so much and have this bias against him, it is great when I gotta admit I am wrong about him on Sunday and apologize. Suck it Randy.:rolleyes:
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The drop and the fumble may have just been bad plays, not a lack of effort. The INT when he quit on the route, that was clearly a lack of effort but maybe it was more just that one play that I realized.
  3. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    On the INT Hoge and i think BB also said that Randy wasnt expecting the ball to come his way after recognize the coverage with two defenders and changed his route expecting the ball if at all thrown elsewhere.WRs and QBs have adjusted all the time so i guess it couldve been that...
  4. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    And as we remember from 2007, Jaws isn't afraid to criticize Moss' effort. So him coming out and saying Moss gave 100% says a lot, and should shut some people up for a little while, I hope.

    The INT was the only play that it really looked like Moss didn't do his best, but I'm still thinking there's something physically wrong with him that is limiting his athleticism right now. He's just not able to outjump or outplay DBs for catches the way he was in the past, or even earlier in the season.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
  5. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    I think a LOT of people owe Randy an apology. All you idiots out there who think you could tell his effort level from watching the game on your couch should be ashamed. Way to jump to conclusions. The Moss hate is ridiculous and unjustified... again.
  6. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually Jaws criticized Moss of dogging it earlier this season. So I agree he isn't afraid of criticizing Moss. Part of the reason I trust him now.

    I still think the alligator arm one is one he didn't do his best. He was more concerned about getting hit than watching the ball into his hands. I actually think of the three plays where you can say he is unfairly criticized for not giving his best effort was the fumble play.
  7. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Fair point about alligator arms on that one play - but, IMO, that isn't about lack of effort or desire. Moss just isn't used to going over the middle throughout his career. That is more about performance than effort, to me, as catching balls in traffic and in the middle of the field is a skill.
  8. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    I"m not going down the road of questioning his effort. But I will go down the road of questioning why such a dramatic dropoff in his production in the last 4games. That is fair.
  9. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    Fine, but that wasn't the issue the past week. People were saying he didn't put forth the effort in the game and that clearly wasn't the case.
  10. Jackson 2

    Jackson 2 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Credit to you for your admission. I've had to do it and it's hard. Not to mention the fact that it sucks.
  11. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First you can only go by what you see until someone with more information tells you otherwise. I am sure you have trashed players based on what you saw from what you saw on TV and the coaches' tape told a different story.

    Second, it isn't about hating Moss. It is about making a judgment with what you can see and sometime the TV tells a different story. Even Moss' friend, Cris Carter called out the guy based on the TV performance.

    I have admitted I am wrong and I apologized. It was never personal for me. If it was, I would never had revealed in the first place that Moss isn't one of my favorite players because that made me look biased. I saw it one way, guys who watched the coaches' tape saw it differently. They have more information.

    If the coaches' tape actually showed that Moss was actually dogging it, would have you come on and apologized for trashing fans for correctly calling out Moss?
  12. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    Well why the f*ck do you have a bias against Moss in the first place? He's been a great teammate and leader, has had the most productive 2+ seasons as it gets, he has been a model citizen, he buys into the team mentality, and he has been a great person overall. Why do you want him to fail so badly? If you try to look beyond the media you will find that he's a good guy.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
  13. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. I have so much experience at being wrong, I guess I am just used to it. :D
  14. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    I was making it a point that we couldn't tell and that the Panthers CBs weren't a good source (could they even tell). My point all along was to give him the benefit of the doubt until we knew for sure. I remember seeing a few good blocks by him and assumed it was a combination of good coverage and a bad day getting separation. However, my big thing was to not rush to judgment.

    The thing I especially didn't like was seeing people use this as an excuse that Randy isn't good for the team, shouldn't be resigned, and isn't a true "Patriot". It's beyond ridiculous.
  15. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Agreed. Effort is such a hard thing to determine unless the guy is doing completely nothing out there. Hodge is a bit of a cartoon IMO, but Jaws carries much more weight in his analysis...
  16. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, that is a different issue and a concern especially when Moss trailed off in the playoffs in the 2007 season. Hopefully it is just a temporary set back and not a long term trend.

    But I don't blame the trail off in 2007 or this year on effort. I really don't know what to blame it on at this point.
  17. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    Exactly, it is a hard thing to determine and a lot of people in the media (and on this board) were claiming the game of 100% proof that Moss is a "dog" and "he doesn't care", etc etc. I can't believe the biases some people have for productive players on their own team!
  18. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know if we need to give Moss or any player the benefit of the doubt if your eyes are telling you something different just because he is a Patriot. That is the definition of homerism in my book (granted everyone is a homer to varying degrees even myself).

    I try to be as objective as possible and that means I will call out Pats players who I think are dogging it or playing well. That is just the way I roll. If you don't think it should be that way, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
  19. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Agreed. Its all perception and that fuels opinion. However, when a prolific performer like Moss who goes from averaging 6 catches for 95yds and a TD a game suddenly goes to averaging. 2.75 catches and 45 yds a game over his last 4, that is reason enough to dig and try to gain a better understanding of why that is happening. Personally, I do that with other athletes where there is a dramatic change in production (see Ortiz last year. See Manny in 08) and you use that as a reason to dig and speculate. It's human nature.

    For me, there is no evidence that Moss has "checked out" or has "dogged it" but i'll be honest, the thought crossed my mind, but I liken his drop in production to multiple reasons- not just one with playcalling, frustration and focus being the prime reasons for his dropoff in production.

    My .02$
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
  20. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    I wasn't saying give Randy the benefit of the doubt "because he's a Patriot", I was saying that because you could NOT tell by watching TV. I agree that he made some mistakes and it certainly made him look bad, but other than the fact he only had 1 catch, there really isn't much to claim he lacked effort. It was the Panthers players that really got the story going and a lot of people were quick to jump on the "lack of effort" bandwagon.

    The reason I'd give him the benefit of the doubt is because of his past 2 years with the Patriots. He has been incredibly productive, is a team caption, has been a great teammate, and didn't ever "quit", even when Brady went down for the year in '08. THAT is why I gave him the benefit of the doubt, not just because he was a Patriot.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
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