ESPN Insider already declaring Ron Brace a bust?

[DaBruinz]

You know Wilfork is saying to himself..."keep sucking Brace" more $$$$$ in my pocket and I stay in NE as well

The longer it takes Brace to become a servicable NFL player the more money big Vince will probably get.

This is just pure fallacy on your part. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the bigger picture and what it means to bring players along.

Wilfork isn't going to get Albert Haynesworth money and your kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

Brace's productivity has no bearing on Wilfork's contract status. None. The Pats switching to the 4-3 as their primary base saw to that...

People seem to forget that it takes 3 years for a player to fully develop. People like yourself need instant gratification from picks or you consider them busts, but all it does is show your lack of understanding.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

Here's an honest question: can you think of any BB-era Pats rookie, at any position except QB & OL, who spend a significant chunk of his rookie year as a healthy scratch but ended up a starter?

Brace's career thus far is reminiscent of Marquise Hill, though I don't recall whether he was a healthy scratch or merely didn't see the field.


I'd guess that Brace's healthy scratches have to do with the need for players to fill ST's slots. Pat Chung has seen the field primarily because he was a ST'er until recently. Perhaps Brace's turn to step up will soon arrive and this topic will go to rest.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

There's plenty of time yet for Brace, but the string of inactive games certainly isn't a GOOD sign.

That's taking the negative potential of the situation a bit too firmly to heart for me. Prior to Training Camp, if one had to assess areas Brace could most greatly improve, what might those be? For my guess I'd say:
-- Conditioning
-- Quickness
-- Technique

PatfanKen noted how Brace was getting off the snap slower a couple days into Training Camp. At Training Camp speeds he was adequate, but he clearly needed better conditioning and while your at it, let's see what can be done to improve his burst (quickness + power off the snap for those who may not be following this too closely). In a "normal" year Brace might rotate with Wilfork, but let's face it, this is not a normal 3-4 season, it's more hybrid between 3-4, 4-3, Nickel, & Dime - obviously there's been a slightly greater emphasis on pass defense with a DL emphasis on collapsing the pocket rather than sprinting off the edge.

While it might be nice to get Ron on the field taking a few snaps, someone needs to be inactive each game. If he's working with Coaches Woicik and Nash on strength, conditioning, speed, quickness, and flexibility, and he's working with Coach Johnson on technique, reading blocks, and understanding how the different blocking techniques and assignments relate to the types of plays he's defending...I call that good for NE, and himself - long term.

Coming into the draft Brace was considered one dimensional, a run stuffer with limited mobility to move laterally and no penetration of the backfield to disrupt passing plays. BB prefers DL who can play a more flexible game - recall the surprise on this forum when Training Camp reports noted Brace lining up at DE in the 4-3. You have to think he might be trying to learn a bit more than NT duties.

At #40 a number of "experts" felt Brace might be overdrafted, but just as drafting a rehabbing Tate was an exercise in patience, so too might have been drafting young master Brace. Myron Pryor has been a very pleasant surprise, most of us felt he was destined for the Practice Squad if he even was retained. His success creates a different measuring stick - Marquis Hill drafted #63 overall played in one game his rookie season, I think we can give fellow second rounder Brace a little more benefit of the doubt.

Brace has been active for 3 games, he has one tackle. His more highly touted counterpart at BC has been active for 5 games, he has eight tackles. I think the dollar to tackle ratio might be equal.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Brace's career thus far is reminiscent of Marquise Hill, though I don't recall whether he was a healthy scratch or merely didn't see the field.

I'd guess that Brace's healthy scratches have to do with the need for players to fill ST's slots. Pat Chung has seen the field primarily because he was a ST'er until recently. Perhaps Brace's turn to step up will soon arrive and this topic will go to rest.

Reminds me a bit of Hill too. Many here defended Hill (correctly) arguing that Hill simply couldn't crack the lineup of quality starters in the 3 man DL. True, but when Hill got the rare chance because of temporary injury to play a few series I always focused on him. He did not do well, at all.

That said, Brace is seemingly targeted at Wilfie's job. Wilfork has been relatively healthy and playing well so that should not be held against Brace. And as mentioned ST play is the sina quo non for young Pats players who aren't starters. With the wedge verboten (ask SeaBass) big fat loads like Brace have no roll (sic) on STs.


What concerned me most about Brace was BB signing and then playing JAG Sands for 2 games with Brace inactive. Reasonable people should just watch as the season unfolds. If Brace is mostly MIA all season then he'll be a very interesting guy to follow in detail in next summer's training camp. Me, I'm hopefull that he's just a slow starter.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Reminds me a bit of Hill too. Many here defended Hill (correctly) arguing that Hill simply couldn't crack the lineup of quality starters in the 3 man DL. True, but when Hill got the rare chance because of temporary injury to play a few series I always focused on him. He did not do well, at all.

That said, Brace is seemingly targeted at Wilfie's job. Wilfork has been relatively healthy and playing well so that should not be held against Brace. And as mentioned ST play is the sina quo non for young Pats players who aren't starters. With the wedge verboten (ask SeaBass) big fat loads like Brace have no roll (sic) on STs.


What concerned me most about Brace was BB signing and then playing JAG Sands for 2 games with Brace inactive. Reasonable people should just watch as the season unfolds. If Brace is mostly MIA all season then he'll be a very interesting guy to follow in detail in next summer's training camp. Me, I'm hopefull that he's just a slow starter.

Well, at 6'8" the dainty Mr. Sands was quite effective against the run inside, and an additional bit of clutter in the throwing lanes.

 

[Oswlek]

To be fair, Brandon Meriweather has made the active 45 for every single game of his career. People also like to compare Brace to Ty Warren "starting slowly," but Warren also played 16 games as a rookie, and started 4 of them.

Of course it's silly hyperbole to call a guy a "bust" after 7 games. But it's also unrealistic to pretend that Brace is following a perfectly normal development path and is just buried by a deep roster. Remember, for one of his inactive games, Terdell Sands made the 45 instead.

Brandon McGowan was a bargain-basement signing late in free agency who looked like a long shot to crack a safety roster that included 2 returning starters and the team's top draft pick. He's now entrenched as a starter. Darius Butler was looking up at Bodden, Wilhite and Springs, but he's already drawn a starting assignment. Etc. If Brace were looking impressive, it's fair to assume he'd be on the field.

No panic here, but some modest disappointment seems fair.

The Meriweather and Warren comparisons aren't perfectly apt from the direction you are coming. Warren was a complete need pick. NE had Seymour, Hamilton and Washington above him. Of course he would be active, he was the primary backup at DE. I think it is fair to question whether he would be active with the group NE has now. Also, Warren's starts came after Washington got hurt and they ceased the minute Big Ted returned.

Meriweather came in during a similar time. NE had Rodney and Wilson, both of which who were health risks, and Sanders who was still growing into his role even in his 3rd year. Sanders hadn't proven much yet and Wilson had proven he would never be the same as he was in 03 and 04. With the 2009 BMs and Sanders in front of him, it is likely that Meriweather would be progressing similarly to Chung... and Brace.

NE's DL right now is ridiculously deep. Warren, Green, Wilfork, Wright, Pryor. Then factor in that NE is in a speed nickle more often than not which means TBC and Burgess are in a DE role very often as well. Just look at the snaps even NE's big guys are getting. Wilfork is in on about 50% of the snaps - and he is NE's most dynamic DL by far who could easily play more if necessary.

Brace is simply caught in a numbers game. Even before the season started it was pretty clear that one of Pryor or Brace would get minimal snaps or even be inactive. Pryor just happens to be the better player at this point. No shame in that. Judging from Brace's performance in the preseason, it is equally clear that the guy can play in this league. Frankly, he was quite a bit more athletic and disruptive than advertised. Despite the healthy scratches, I fully expect him to be at least a Jarvis Green type primary backup by next season.

 

[Oswlek]

Brace's career thus far is reminiscent of Marquise Hill, though I don't recall whether he was a healthy scratch or merely didn't see the field.


I'd guess that Brace's healthy scratches have to do with the need for players to fill ST's slots. Pat Chung has seen the field primarily because he was a ST'er until recently. Perhaps Brace's turn to step up will soon arrive and this topic will go to rest.

I don't see the Hill comparison at all. Brace showed more in his rookie preseason than Hill did in his entire career. From everything I've read about the guy he was a standup individual and he deserves to RIP, but he was a terrible football player.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Well, at 6'8" the dainty Mr. Sands was quite effective against the run inside, and an additional bit of clutter in the throwing lanes.

Given that exceptional height and weight there has to be a notable fatal aspect to the guy for him not to make any NFL roster.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

I don't see the Hill comparison at all. Brace showed more in his rookie preseason than Hill did in his entire career. From everything I've read about the guy he was a standup individual and he deserves to RIP, but he was a terrible football player.

Well, then I stand corrected. I don't remember Marquise Hill during his rookie preseason. I just remember that he was a 2nd rounder who hardly ever saw the field and may or may not have been a healthy scratch at times.

 

[Synovia]

I
There is no excuse for this. Myron Pryor is making this guy look really bad.

Maybe Myron Pryor is just really good for a rookie? You ever think that?

 

[Sicilian]

I would be more concerned if our defense (specifically the line) wasn't playing well and he still couldn't get time. As it is, we've been relatively healthy and, most importantly, EFFECTIVE along the line in multiple formations. This may be a combination of his progress being a little slow (not a bust, just a little slow) and not wanting to punish a group of players who are playing really well by taking away some of their snaps.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Given that exceptional height and weight there has to be a notable fatal aspect to the guy for him not to make any NFL roster.

It's called Al Davis. Though last I heard his locker at Gillette was still on standby - perhaps there's a minor injury he's rehabbing? I wasn't disappointed with him and won't be unhappy to have him back for a longer test drive.

 

[Oswlek]

Well, then I stand corrected. I don't remember Marquise Hill during his rookie preseason. I just remember that he was a 2nd rounder who hardly ever saw the field and may or may not have been a healthy scratch at times.

Oh you are correct. All your comparisons are spot on, but Hill was a liability every time he stepped on the field, even in preseason against scrubs.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Maybe Myron Pryor is just really good for a rookie? You ever think that?

Ooo! You said an 'orrible word! (Clearly 91 is tighter than 92. :snob: )

 

[patchick]

Wilfork did. I believe he had a few scratches.

Nope, Wilfork has never once been a healthy scratch.

I'm a little depressed by the multiple posts offering Marquise Hill as a positive comparison, given that Hill was routinely inactive even in his third year and recorded a total of 2 tackles in his career.

I really didn't set out to be the voice of doom in this thread. I just think that assuming it's nothing but a "numbers game" is a little over-sanguine.

 

[letekro]

This whole thread idea is premised on the FALSE notion that Myron Pryor is not performing well. If someone ahead of player X on the depth chart is playing well, that doesn't necessarily mean player X is not a good player. If Myron Pryor were playing poorly and Brace still couldn't get on the field, that may tell you that Brace is not a good player, or at least not ready yet to be a good player.

 

[patchick]

This whole thread idea is premised on the FALSE notion that Myron Pryor is not performing well. If someone ahead of player X on the depth chart is playing well, that doesn't necessarily mean player X is not a good player. If Myron Pryor were playing poorly and Brace still couldn't get on the field, that may tell you that Brace is not a good player, or at least not ready yet to be a good player.

I have to disagree. I haven't seen a single post say a single negative word about Myron Pryor. I have seen several posts point out that Terdell Sands was active ahead of Brace.

 

[amazinPats]

Too early for the bust label. However you gotta admit it's a tad concerning that Terdell Sands, a guy who's not even on the team anymore, was active over him. Especially with the success of the other rookies this year.

Yet Terdell was released and we kept Brace. I wonder who BB thinks is the better player?

 

[JSn]

It's called Al Davis. Though last I heard his locker at Gillette was still on standby - perhaps there's a minor injury he's rehabbing? I wasn't disappointed with him and won't be unhappy to have him back for a longer test drive.

I just asked Chris P. about this today. Sadly, it's all cleaned out.

 

[JSn]

Yet Terdell was released and we kept Brace. I wonder who BB thinks is the better player?

That's kind of a silly statement. NO WAY Brace would be released in year one unless his arms fell off.