Coaching exodus continues: TE coach Mangurian leaving

[Synovia]

Does anyone know how involved Mangurian was with game planning, scouting, etc.? Because based on our consistently under achieving tight ends, I don't see this as a huge loss. If he was involved in many other facets of the daily operations, maybe this is, but I think tight end play could be improved under a new assistant.

The underperformance of the tight ends is a lot of talk and not a lot of substance. They've underperformed as receivers, but have consistently been great blockers.

When you have Randy Moss and Wes Welker, the blocking is much more important.

 

[Fencer]

For some reason, I have a feeling that O Brien (?) getting promoted has a lot to do with this. Maybe Mangurian thought he was next in line?

Yep. The two concepts that come to mind are "passed over for promotion" and "up or out".

 

[mtbykr]

We were hemorrhaging players throughout the year, little did I know it would carry on to the staff. It's to the point now like it was during the year...where I turn on the computer and expect another Patriots personnel loss. Just crazy!

 

[DaBruinz]

I think that this is a Belichick decision. And there is nothing saying that it won't be for the better. In all honesty, Watson and Thomas have not progressed and many have said that they have regressed. And that falls directly to Mangurian.

People need to remember that new coaches aren't necessarily a bad thing. One only needs to look to Arizona, Atlanta and division rival Miami for proof of this.

 

[Rob0729]

The underperformance of the tight ends is a lot of talk and not a lot of substance. They've underperformed as receivers, but have consistently been great blockers.

When you have Randy Moss and Wes Welker, the blocking is much more important.

Consistently great blockers?!? Really?!? Would anyone consider Ben Watson anything more than an average blocker? I've seen Dave Thomas get burnt more than several times blocking. Kyle Brady was cut after the season last year because he disapointed with his blocking. The Pats haven't gotten great blocking from the TEs since Daniel Graham left.

 

[DNR]

For some reason, I have a feeling that O Brien (?) getting promoted has a lot to do with this. Maybe Mangurian thought he was next in line?

BINGO....my first thought exactly

 

[DaBruinz]

Consistently great blockers?!? Really?!? Would anyone consider Ben Watson anything more than an average blocker? I've seen Dave Thomas get burnt more than several times blocking. Kyle Brady was cut after the season last year because he disapointed with his blocking. The Pats haven't gotten great blocking from the TEs since Daniel Graham left.

Kyle Brady was cut because he walked out on the team mid-season and his heart wasn't in to playing anymore.

I agree that Synovia's synopsis of their blocking is vastly over-rated. Watson is average and so is Thomas, but neither are even close to Graham's blocking ability.

Also, Stephen Spach was a much better blocker than either of them and I think it was a mistake for the Pats not to dress him in the SB and it was a mistake for them to have let him go. Spach was very good at blocking for the Cardinals prior to his knee injury.

 

[Synovia]

Kyle Brady was cut because he walked out on the team mid-season and his heart wasn't in to playing anymore.

I agree that Synovia's synopsis of their blocking is vastly over-rated. Watson is average and so is Thomas, but neither are even close to Graham's blocking ability.

Also, Stephen Spach was a much better blocker than either of them and I think it was a mistake for the Pats not to dress him in the SB and it was a mistake for them to have let him go. Spach was very good at blocking for the Cardinals prior to his knee injury.

I'm going to disagree. And you're right that neither one of them is Daniel Graham, but they're BOTH vastly better blockers than most teams have, like Kevin Boss, Dallas Clark, Tony Gonzales, Antonio Gates, etc. The state of blocking TEs in the NFL right now is pretty bad.

 

[Dagg]

Consistently great blockers?!? Really?!? Would anyone consider Ben Watson anything more than an average blocker? I've seen Dave Thomas get burnt more than several times blocking. Kyle Brady was cut after the season last year because he disapointed with his blocking. The Pats haven't gotten great blocking from the TEs since Daniel Graham left.

agree 100% average at best no big loss IMO, they havent developed much at all same players they were when they came in

 

[SVN]

this is going to disappoint all those on this board who hated a 'young inexperienced' oc like mcd and thought mangurian should be oc

 

[Jimke]

I don't think Crennel and Weis were among the lowest paid Coordinators. They weren't getting paid among the top coordinators, but that was in large part because several coordinators like Monty Kiffin got close to head coach salaries to stay on as coordinators after Romeo and Charlie got their deals. It isn't like the Pats gave either below market deals.

Also, I seriously doubt that any of the coaching staff has left the team because they were under paid. Capers was always going to only be with the Pats for a year or two. He wasn't going to spend the rest of his career as a position coach. He got a promotion to defensive coordinator. McDaniels got promoted to a head coach position. He would never have left the Pats for a lateral position. Magurian might not have left the Pats by his choice. Belichick may have fired him since the TEs were virtually non-existent last year. Even Brad Seely got a promotion because he is also assistant head coach as well as special teams coordinator.

I don't mean to belabor the point but I'd like to refer to an article
by Nick Cafardo in the Boston Globe on May 16, 2004. At the
time Romeo Crennel was making a salary well short of 1 million
dollars. Charlie Weis was making only $500,000. According to
Weis's agent, the average salary for an offensive coordinator was
one million dollars. Had Weis not been hired by Notre Dame, he
was going to be a coordinator for another team in 2005.

 

[Kontradiction]

Did Bill stop using deodorant or something, geeze.

Just looking at him, I don't think he ever started. BB is the greatest but the man looks like he reeks of stale cheese.

 

[Water Boy]

Just looking at him, I don't think he ever started. BB is the greatest but the man looks like he reeks of stale cheese.

It is what it is.

 

[Kontradiction]

It is what it is.

Indeed. That's probably why his defenses have traditionally played pissed off. "GOD this guy smells like ass. Let's just shut them down and get out of here so we don't have to breathe in his stench anymore".

 

[N.Eman]

I really hope they start hiring before it becomes real trouble. Goings sometimes shakes up things so I hope im right

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm going to disagree. And you're right that neither one of them is Daniel Graham, but they're BOTH vastly better blockers than most teams have, like Kevin Boss, Dallas Clark, Tony Gonzales, Antonio Gates, etc. The state of blocking TEs in the NFL right now is pretty bad.

You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't make you correct. Kevin Boss is a good blocker and Gonzalez has actually learned to block. I also disagree with you about the state of blocking TEs in the league. I can bring up numerous ones who are pretty good. Kleinsasser, Spaeth, and Royal, just to start with.

 

[Lampshade]

Consistently great blockers?!? Really?!? Would anyone consider Ben Watson anything more than an average blocker? I've seen Dave Thomas get burnt more than several times blocking. Kyle Brady was cut after the season last year because he disapointed with his blocking. The Pats haven't gotten great blocking from the TEs since Daniel Graham left.

Honestly, I think Watson has turned into a darn good blocker; especially on run plays. Not Daniel Graham level, but certainly towards the upper echelons of the position. Dave Thomas, on the other hand, is not.

 

[DaBruinz]

I really hope they start hiring before it becomes real trouble. Goings sometimes shakes up things so I hope im right

They already hired a new Special Teams Coordinator. All they are missing right now is a TE coach and a WR coach. O'Brien is going to be the QB coach / OC in training who should take over next year, the way that McDaniels progressed.

There is no rush to get people in. They have until the draft to do so. Heck, they could, technically, wait until the mini camps.

 

[billdog3484]

for whatever reason, the guys we bring in to replace former employees always seem to do well. whether it be players or personnel p eople

 

[upstater1]

For some reason, I have a feeling that O Brien (?) getting promoted has a lot to do with this. Maybe Mangurian thought he was next in line?

+1

That's what it looks like to me too.