Who's Boston best GM now??

[patriotspride]

I'm not going to go down this road with you over the Celtics GM. Your opinion and mine clearly differ. Such is life. Have a nice day.

i wouldnt want to go down the rd if i was you either. GM of the year danny ainge voted by people who know a thing or two about GMs .

 

[hambone1818]

I love all the Boston teams, though I tend to favor the Sox more than the other three.

That said, I'd definitely rank them:

Pioli/BB
Theo




Ainge

-I think it's a 1A/1B case between the Pats and Sox (with a slight edge to the Pats), and the reason I say that is that Theo's master plan is truly just taking shape. Granted, he's doing it in an uncapped league, but the '$100 million player development machine' has truly changed the culture of the Sox organization. Not only do they have a TON of flexibility now, they have BY FAR the best depth in all of baseball (half the players on Pawtucket would be on MLB rosters on most teams, and they have a ridiculous amount of legit MLB starts: Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Buchholz, Wakefield, Colon, eventually Schilling, plus youngesters like Pauley, Zink, etc, who would absolutely be first-option AAA types on any other team). They have some great young players, so very promising prospects throughout the minors, and a MLB roster filled with great, professional talent of guys who know how to win.

All that said, Pioli/BB have done the same thing: great depth, great flexibility, an eye to the future, and a constant winning culture; but they've done it in a capped league and for that I give them the edge.

As for Ainge, I'll give him credit for the trade...but that absolutely fell into his lap. He was rebuilding the team for a half a decade and wasted a number of peak seasons of Paul Pierce...the fact that he fleeced McHale doesn't shock me as McHale is one of the worst GM's in the sport. I think we can all admit it, even if we are big-time Celtics fans: the franchise got lucky as hell with that trade; if they win a title or two it'll all be worth it but in three seasons they'll be a terrible team once again, and Ainge doesn't (imo) have an eye toward the future like the other two.

 

[BSR]

As for Ainge, I'll give him credit for the trade...but that absolutely fell into his lap. He was rebuilding the team for a half a decade and wasted a number of peak seasons of Paul Pierce...the fact that he fleeced McHale doesn't shock me as McHale is one of the worst GM's in the sport. I think we can all admit it, even if we are big-time Celtics fans: the franchise got lucky as hell with that trade; if they win a title or two it'll all be worth it but in three seasons they'll be a terrible team once again, and Ainge doesn't (imo) have an eye toward the future like the other two.

The "luck" that Ainge had with the Garnett trade was nowhere near that the Pats had with HOF QB falling into their lap or the SOX had with Ortiz developing out of the blue. Garnett was a known commodity and a calculated measure to win now rather then later. I see less luck in that then in either of the franchise making moves by the others.

And don't get me started on Theo and his "great" moves like the disaster at shortstop going on four years now or being fleeced in the trade for Suppan.

 

[wizwor]

Good question, OP. Aren't we lucky the answer is so tough? I appreciate what all have done. Ainge may have been lucky, or he may be a skilled chess player, but he has been juggling pieces with no plan that I could discern, then, this year, it all comes together. The team reminds me of the Patriots -- their Brady is Pierce, they have the veterans, and the guys coming off the bench offer promise for the future.

The Red Sox management team is amazing. They may have the second highest salary in the division, but they only compete with the Yankees for players and the Yankees have *so* much more money. And money has not bought success for the other big spenders. The thing with the sox is that they are getting a lot of help from within. I think we are looking at a dynasty on Yawkey Way.

The Patriots relentless pursuit of perfection in a system designed to punish success is remarkable. As each of the other two teams emerged out of obscurity, people talked about how they were embracing the Patriot Way. I agree and give the not to Beoli for showing the others the way.

 

[scout]

I love all the Boston teams, though I tend to favor the Sox more than the other three.

That said, I'd definitely rank them:

Pioli/BB
Theo




Ainge

-I think it's a 1A/1B case between the Pats and Sox (with a slight edge to the Pats), and the reason I say that is that Theo's master plan is truly just taking shape. Granted, he's doing it in an uncapped league, but the '$100 million player development machine' has truly changed the culture of the Sox organization. Not only do they have a TON of flexibility now, they have BY FAR the best depth in all of baseball (half the players on Pawtucket would be on MLB rosters on most teams, and they have a ridiculous amount of legit MLB starts: Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Buchholz, Wakefield, Colon, eventually Schilling, plus youngesters like Pauley, Zink, etc, who would absolutely be first-option AAA types on any other team). They have some great young players, so very promising prospects throughout the minors, and a MLB roster filled with great, professional talent of guys who know how to win.

All that said, Pioli/BB have done the same thing: great depth, great flexibility, an eye to the future, and a constant winning culture; but they've done it in a capped league and for that I give them the edge.

As for Ainge, I'll give him credit for the trade...but that absolutely fell into his lap. He was rebuilding the team for a half a decade and wasted a number of peak seasons of Paul Pierce...the fact that he fleeced McHale doesn't shock me as McHale is one of the worst GM's in the sport. I think we can all admit it, even if we are big-time Celtics fans: the franchise got lucky as hell with that trade; if they win a title or two it'll all be worth it but in three seasons they'll be a terrible team once again, and Ainge doesn't (imo) have an eye toward the future like the other two.

How kind of you to give Ainge credit for the trade. You did realize that every NBA team was aware that Garnett was on the block and wanted him, right? You also know that after the first half dozen draft picks you will almost never get a dominant player, and while Ainge was with the Celtics (until this last draft in which he swung his 'other' trade) he did not have a decent pick. I guess you could also say Rajon Rhondo 'fell' to the Celtics in the draft, as did Big Baby and Leon Powe. Ainge has no eye toward the future 'if they win a championship or two', LMAO! Oh by the way, Rajon Rhondo will be a star and I put my money on Ainge coming up with someone to compliment him.

 

[hambone1818]

The "luck" that Ainge had with the Garnett trade was nowhere near that the Pats had with HOF QB falling into their lap or the SOX had with Ortiz developing out of the blue. Garnett was a known commodity and a calculated measure to win now rather then later. I see less luck in that then in either of the franchise making moves by the others.

And don't get me started on Theo and his "great" moves like the disaster at shortstop going on four years now or being fleeced in the trade for Suppan.

The difference, to me, is that Ainge hasn't really done much outside of the Garnett deal to inspire confidence. His drafts have been halfway decent, but putting a team together and making trades have, for the most part, been a disaster. This season, with Garnett on board, he's been considerably better--guys like House, Posey and Brown have been good, cheap pickups.

With Theo and Pioli/BB, we've seen time and again some fantastic moves..granted they don't all work, but their drafts tend to be about as good as anyone's in the league, their roster management is impeccible and they've both put together FRANCHISES--from top to bottom--that are amazing and should continue to be so for years to come. With Ainge, I don't see that as the case: in three years he'll have the aging stars making big money and, presumably--simply because he has no legit young talent on this team and alot of money committed two three guys--a roster barren of good young talent.

 

[Ghost of Ben Dreith]

All that needs to be said about Ainge's skills as a GM can be summed up in 2 words......Doc Rivers


Peoli
nobody
Epstein
nobody
nobody
Ainge
drunk on street
Bruins GM

 

[scout]

All that needs to be said about Ainge's skills as a GM can be summed up in 2 words......Doc Rivers


Peoli
nobody
Epstein
nobody
nobody
Ainge
drunk on street
Bruins GM

Dare you to post that comment on Celticsblog.com.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

This season, with Garnett on board, he's been considerably better--guys like House, Posey and Brown have been good, cheap pickups.

.

Winning is as they say contagious. Do any of the above sign with the Celtics if they don't make the moves get Allen and Garnett? Not likely, these guys signed to be part of a winner ( provided the $$ is all equal) Win a championship or be very competitive for a year or two and free agents will sign here. Win 24 games and it gets little harder.

 

[JoeSixPat]

for ainge to even have a chance at garnett or any big name player he had to dump contracts years before. then he had to draft al jefferson and make a trade for ray allen. garnett didnt want to come to boston until ainge made the trade for ray allen. no al jefferson or ray allen no kevin garnett. ainge planed for both getting the number one pick and not getting a top three pick last year. luck had nothing to do with it. good gms have plan b and c ect ect

I don't think there's any way possible one can look at the Garnett signing as a multi-year, multi-move plan.

I don't think Ainge would even assert that. Ainge was always on the lookout for prime veteran talent to bring in to compliment Pierce to be sure... but all the planets needed to be aligned to make that deal work...

Credit Ainge for recognizing an opportunity, not being afraid to parlay his assetts and find a deal that worked for both sides (Minn wasn't winning the Championship even with Garnett - better they start rebuilding with a guy like Jefferson.)

But luck had EVERYTHING to do with it. I seriously doubt this trade goes down if the Celts had the #1 pick in last year's draft.

 

[patriotspride]

I don't think there's any way possible one can look at the Garnett signing as a multi-year, multi-move plan.

I don't think Ainge would even assert that. Ainge was always on the lookout for prime veteran talent to bring in to compliment Pierce to be sure... but all the planets needed to be aligned to make that deal work...

Credit Ainge for recognizing an opportunity, not being afraid to parlay his assetts and find a deal that worked for both sides (Minn wasn't winning the Championship even with Garnett - better they start rebuilding with a guy like Jefferson.)

But luck had EVERYTHING to do with it. I seriously doubt this trade goes down if the Celts had the #1 pick in last year's draft.

you miss the point. for years the Celtics were never in a position to land a Garnette or any big time player via free agency or a trade because they had no cap room and they had no young players like al Jefferson to interest a team. he made the moves he made to put the team into a position to land a big time player that's the point. that player turned out to be a Garnette. did he plan for years to land Garnette ? no i never said he did. I'm sure he had interest in several players in the event they became available. without dumping huge contracts [not easy to do players have guaranteed money in the NBA unlike the NFL]and doing a excellent job drafting the Garnette deal never gets done. nor does the ray Allen deal.

 

[Deus Irae]

nevermind.....

 

[scout]

you miss the point. for years the celtics were never in a position to land a garnett or any big time player via free agency or a trade because they had no cap room and they had no young players like al jefferson to interest a team. he made the moves he made to put the team into a position to land a big time player . that player turned out to be a garnett.did he plan for years to land garnett ? no i never said he did. im sure he had interest in several players in the event they became available. without dumping huge contracts [not easy to do players have guaranteed money in the nba unlike the nfl]and doing a excellent job drafting the garnett deal never gets done.

Exactly. Look at the pieces that were used to make the trades for Garnett and Allan. In Allan and the #35, he traded #5, West (24) and Sczcerbiak. The 35th pick he then used for Big Baby, who may be an impact player in a few years. To acquire Garnett, he traded Jefferson (15), Ryan Gomes (50), Gerald Green (18), Telfair and Ratliff. People can rant about the Telfair acquisition all they want, but if you don't regard Ainge as a shrewd judge of talent then they should hop off the basketball bandwagon. FYI, a #2 pick in football should be an impact player while a #2 in basketball has a chance to make the team. A #1 pick in football most likely will be a starter for a number of years and should be a blue chipper. A #1 pick in basketball taken after the 10th pick, makes the team, and might develop into a solid player.

 

[reject]

Lets turn the calendar back 365 days ago.


"Fire Ange wut a lozer !!!!"

 

[Deus Irae]

People can rant about the Telfair acquisition all they want, but if you don't regard Ainge as a shrewd judge of talent then they should hop off the basketball bandwagon.

Given that many/most of his trades have been bad and his drafting has been mixed, there's no need for people who don't find Ainge a particularly shrewd judge of talent to "hop off the basketball bandwagon".

Or, to put it another way.....

How's Gerald Green doing these days?

 

[Ghost of Ben Dreith]

Given that many/most of his trades have been bad and his drafting has been mixed, there's no need for people who don't find Ainge a particularly shrewd judge of talent to "hop off the basketball bandwagon".

Or, to put it another way.....

How's Gerald Green doing these days?

Exactly......that and Doc Rivers make for an absolutely perfect response.

But I do have to say....Ainge did a better job as GM with the Celtics than Isiah Thomas did with the Knicks.

The Celtics making the finals (and possibly winning) is a great thing except that we will now be stuck with Ainge and Doc for at least another year. Think how a lot of Giants fans felt about Coughlin.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Danny Ainge brought talent he used as trade bait, West and Jefferson for instance. Do I think Ainge is good? I honestly don't know. He did have the Garnett deal fall into his lap due to the lottery, but he set the Celtics up when you think about it. They get #1 they land Odom and the future is bright. If they don't? Well, worse case scenario happened and Ainge did what he could to save the franchise.

I don't understand why everyone thinks the Celtics are going to flat out suck soon. It's not like they have no talent developing or anything. They'll need time, but I wouldn't say they'll stay in oblivion. So I think Ainge is solid at this point, Doc Rivers is killing him. I feel scared with him as our coach.

Lets look at Epstein. The guy who said he used Yankee salary/A's scouting to build a power house said it perfectly. I understand the criticism that he is working with gold. But he brought us Buchholz, , Ellsbury, Youkilis, Pedroia, Lester. That's just to name a few of the big names out of the farm. Through free agency and the draft he has built the deepest team in baseball. If I told you the Sox would lose Schilling, Beckett and Dice-K at certain periods all within the first two months and they would have this good a record what would you have said? This team is amazingly deep. Cashman proves cash doesn't just win you titles, you need to have brains. Theo has done a lot better than bad.

Pioli and BB. How can you argue? A dynasty, the Patriots should be at/near the top for at least the next five years. Football is the hardest to build. They've lost a **** load of guys but they continue to replace them. Although the team has ****ed up recently in big games, good GMing is all about producing titles and staying among the top. The Patriots have done that, and right now they're the undisputed king. But methinks if the Sox come on top this year and the Pats fall flat yet again the Sox are gonna be the hot choice.

 

[castlelong1]

Lets turn the calendar back 365 days ago.


"Fire Ange wut a lozer !!!!"

No, 365 days ago was "Lottery pick! Oh boy we can get Odum!"

Yes, the Patriots got lucky with Brady. Really lucky. I'd say lucky with Vrable and stuff, but that would insult the luck of Brady.

Funny thing is the culture change. For the Patriots that may be more Kraft than Pioli.

I couldn't imagine guys taking less to come to the Patriots in the '90s. I don't follow the Sox, but they seem to have changed from "cursed" to "competitor."

Maybe in a few years the Celtics will be there. I hope they will. When we see free agents turn down more money offered by an also-ran to play for the Celtics then they will have arrived.

 

[patriotspride]

How's Gerald Green doing these days?

great he was part of the garnette trade. he worked just fine.

 

[patriotspride]

Given that many/most of his trades have been bad and his drafting has been mixed, there's no need for people who don't find Ainge a particularly shrewd judge of talent to "hop off the basketball bandwagon".

Or, to put it another way.....

How's Gerald Green doing these days?

you just don't have a clue. you cant just pass judgment on a trade by the players you get all the time. not in the nba you cant. ainge made some of his trades as a way to dump salary to free the team up so they could be more active going after players and stockpile some picks. its not as simple as you get this player in return for that player. then sit back and say wow the players we got aren't as good as we gave up. its not baseball. he had to gut the team and make trades to free the team from salary first before he could build the team up again. that's why its much harder to rebuild a nba franchise. he is the GM of the year for a reason .do they just give that award to gms that suck? saying the garnett deal fell in his lap is laughable on its face