The Colts big FA splash

[DaBruinz]

They were claimed on waivers.

Semantics, but thanks for the correction.

They were signed as free agents in 2003 before Manning's contract.

You are the only one who has broguth up Manning's contract in this regard. I was just talking about the fact that the Colts HAVE signed plenty of free agents.

Rocky Boiman and Bo Schobel were signed last year. Stokely was the one signed prior to Manning's contract.



OH, one thing also not mentioned is that over the last 3-4 years, I am pretty sure that the Colts have had the most or close to the most UDFA signings in the league.

 

[Miguel]

You are the only one who has broguth up Manning's contract in this regard.

Spacecrime, not I, wrote this:
"Okay, I've been listening to Colts fans and Colts supporters tell me for years that Peyton Manning's contract will not interfere with them signing players."

 

[Miguel]

Rocky Boiman and Bo Schobel were signed last year. Stokely was the one signed prior to Manning's contract.

My bad. Boiman and Schobel were claimed on waivers by the Colts in 2006.

 

[skaIownsIyou]

Money spent doesn't = superbowls won. In an ideal world Money spent = Production. In a utopia Production is > Money spent.

The latter is where the Patriots excel and that is the reason why we win/contend year in and year out!

Time for a new signature. Maybe an ode to Dan Snyder.

hahah....but before the cap era, for those dynasties, the money spent = the superbowls won....

thats what makes the patriot dynasty so amazing, b/c even with the addition of the salary cap, the pats managed to keep a 3 out of 4 year run....


in a rebuilding year for the pats....they were 4 points from the superbowl...

the pats brass coudlve resigned givens and branch, like wayne and harrison to long term deals, and have them play with brady for 5, 6 years....be 200,000 under the cap...and be forced to cut and not resign players to make cap room, and still be right under the cap

it just shows how much better brady is to manning

brady turned C receivers to B receivers in a year, and half a year for gaffney...

manning has had the same guys for an X amount of years...and NOW has finally won ONE superbowl

give brady - wayne and harrison and he will be winning sb's year in and year out, give manning a marginal core of receivers year inand year out, maybe keep 1 or 2 receivers for 3 years tops, peyton would be worse than eli....

colts fans, take your 1 superbowl and peyton, i'll take my 3 and brady...

 

[coltsfan]

OH, one thing also not mentioned is that over the last 3-4 years, I am pretty sure that the Colts have had the most or close to the most UDFA signings in the league.

No way. When those lists come out around the draft, the Colts are always at the bottom with one or two players signed. Miguel and everyone else is right, the Colts are not big players in free agency. They re-sign their core players and go from there. B/C their core players have been elite players at their positions, it gives them little cap room.

 

[Miguel]

No way. When those lists come out around the draft, the Colts are always at the bottom with one or two players signed.

That can't be true. Every team signs a lot of UDFAs in order to bring up their TC roster up to the 80 plus range. In 2005 the Colts signed 25 UDFAs according to a Sept 2005 NFLPA.org report. In 2004 they also signed 25 UDFAs
http://www.nflpa.org/pdfs/shared/20...ry_&_Salary_Trends_Omnibus_September_2004.pdf

Until this thread I never thought of an UDFA when I thought of a team signing players. Why?? Because only the prorated portion of their signing bonus affects the cap until the last cutdown day.

 

[jman924]

The Colts never sign free agents and never will. The Colts build through the draft and then keep their players once developed. This is what Super Bowl champion teams do.

Congratulations, like Dan Snyder you have no Lombardi trophy but have turned into proud March NFL champions. :rocker:

What does the march championship ring look like?

Why don't you tell us?
You've got, like, 6 of 'em don't you?

 

[Double G]

This is priceless; the Colts, after years, no decades of choke jobs in the playoffs (remember those Bert Jones led teams in the 70's that were loaded but did squat), finally win a Super Bowl and Bandwagonballbag jumps in making them sound like the second coming of the 60's Packers, 70's Steelers, 80's 49ers and 90's Cowboys all rolled into one, ie, they are the model of how a Super Bowl champion should be run.

To boot, he compares the Thomas signing to one the mental midget down in DC would make? Yep, you are priceless bandwagonballbag; can't tell you how much I for one enjoy your posts, keep up the mediocre work you tool................

 

[Miguel]

Semantics, but thanks for the correction..[/
QUOTE]

The semantics is on your end, not mine. The NFL defines a free agent as a "player who is not under contract and is free to negotiate and sign a Player
Contract with any NFL Club, without Draft Choice Compensation or any Right of First Refusal." Klecko and Reid were under contract and were not free to negotiate with any NFL club since they were claimed on waivers.

Also, the NFL defines the free agency signing period.
http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/qa
Q -- What is the time period for free-agency signings this year?
A -- For restricted free agents, from March 2 to April 20; for unrestricted free agents, from March 2 to July 22 (or the first scheduled day of the first NFL training camp, whichever is later); and for franchise players, from March 2 through the 10th week of the season (Nov. 13).

Klecko, Reid, Boiman, and Schobel were all claimed on waivers in August/September.

 

[Miguel]

Right back atcha, buddy: Did I really say that Manning's contract wouild interfere with the Colts signing free agents?? I do not think so. If you read carefully, I said signing players. The point was that manning's contract is preventing them from signing their own players, let alone free agents..

Do you mean players like Harrison, Wayne, Brackett, Diem and Mathis who have all signed deals with the Colts AFTER Manning signed his contract???

 

[spacecrime]

In 2004 the Colts did not sign any other team's team free agents.
In 2005 the Colts signed Corey Simon after the free agency period ended in July.
In 2006 the Colts signed Adam.

In 3 years that is a total of two free agents. If anyone was thinking that the Colts would go on a free-agency spree in 2007, then they have not been paying attention to their modus operandi.

Without getting into the decpetive semantics of waivers vs FAs, I agree with with you. The Colts have no money for FAs because of Mannings contract. Only when they are truly desparate do they get a FA, which necessitates another manning restructure. Pretty soon his cap number will be $20 mil.

Re-doing contracts is like using a charge card. Most teams do it responsibly and use the card to manage their money from year to year. Other people charge iresponsibly, eventually charging not because it is convenient, but because it is necessary for day to day living. That was me in the 70's and it is the Colts this year.

Getting out of credit card hell necessitates a few very lean years, as the Colts will find out next year.

 

[Fumblerooski]

This is why they are a one and done team.

 

[workhorse]

Without getting into the decpetive semantics of waivers vs FAs, I agree with with you. The Colts have no money for FAs because of Mannings contract. Only when they are truly desparate do they get a FA, which necessitates another manning restructure. Pretty soon his cap number will be $20 mil.

Re-doing contracts is like using a charge card. Most teams do it responsibly and use the card to manage their money from year to year. Other people charge iresponsibly, eventually charging not because it is convenient, but because it is necessary for day to day living. That was me in the 70's and it is the Colts this year.

Getting out of credit card hell necessitates a few very lean years, as the Colts will find out next year.

Actually, with a couple recent cuts and a couple reworked deals the Colts are are $12 or $13 million under the cap. The exclusive rights tag on Freeney has value just over $8.5 million. So, obviously the Colts do have money to sign a big free agent contract, it just so happens that the free agent they are signing played for them last season. Signing Freeney to a long term deal will lower his hit and allow the Colts some more flexibility. It's kind of a misnomer to say the Colts don't sign free agents, they do, it's most of them already had a locker in the Colts' lockerroom.

As far as Manning's eventuall cap hit goes, the Colts have been dealing with it pretty well so far and likely will in the future. What will most likely happen is the Colts will give Manning another long term contract that extends past the actual length of time that Peyton will play. The money still owed on the back end of this current contract due to the restructuring will be turned into a signing bonus that will be spread out over the life of that next contract. If he retires before that contract runs out the only thing that will be dead money is the remaining bonus money counting on those final years, which they will have been planning on all along.

 

[Peytonsbetter]

Okay, I've been listening to Colts fans and Colts supporters tell me for years that Peyton Manning's contract will not interfere with them signing players.

Even after the SB, when some here suggested that the Colts had cap troubles, they were pooh poohed, and told the Colts could easily make cap room to sign their own players and still compete in the FA market. Supposedly Mannng re-did his contract again, pushing off more of his money into the remaining years.

So, okay. Where is the news of the Colts FA activity? I don't even hear about them signing their own players, never mind making a big FA signing.

What's the deal?

He's the best quarterback in the league. If we don't pay him, someone else will. Thats life in the NFL. You can't hold his contract against him.

Besides, he's restructured his contract several times to help the team out.

 

[spacecrime]

He's the best quarterback in the league. If we don't pay him, someone else will. Thats life in the NFL. You can't hold his contract against him.

Besides, he's restructured his contract several times to help the team out.

I'm not holding it against him. I understand the Colts were stuck between a rock and a hard place. They did what tehy had to do. No question. But just because they had to do it doesn't mean it won't have downstream effects later on. It is getting close to later on.

His helping out is a two-edged sword. That was my point. Pushed-off bills eventually come due.

 

[coltsfan]

That can't be true. Every team signs a lot of UDFAs in order to bring up their TC roster up to the 80 plus range. In 2005 the Colts signed 25 UDFAs according to a Sept 2005 NFLPA.org report. In 2004 they also signed 25 UDFAs
http://www.nflpa.org/pdfs/shared/20...ry_&_Salary_Trends_Omnibus_September_2004.pdf

Until this thread I never thought of an UDFA when I thought of a team signing players. Why?? Because only the prorated portion of their signing bonus affects the cap until the last cutdown day.

Miguel, my bad, I didn't realize he was talking about undrafted free agents since most of this thread was about unrestricted veteran free agents.

You're right about UDFA, the Colts work that market more than most teams.

 

[coltsfan]

Without getting into the decpetive semantics of waivers vs FAs, I agree with with you. The Colts have no money for FAs because of Mannings contract. Only when they are truly desparate do they get a FA, which necessitates another manning restructure. Pretty soon his cap number will be $20 mil.

Re-doing contracts is like using a charge card. Most teams do it responsibly and use the card to manage their money from year to year. Other people charge iresponsibly, eventually charging not because it is convenient, but because it is necessary for day to day living. That was me in the 70's and it is the Colts this year.

Getting out of credit card hell necessitates a few very lean years, as the Colts will find out next year.

Don't really agree. I'd love Miguel to answer b/c he knows more about the contract than me, but I would bet that the intention from the beginning was for these roster bonuses to be turned into signing bonuses.

The Colts don't do what you are saying. They turned Manning and Mathis' roster bonuses into signing bonuses. They have not gone into mass restructurings as you see the Redskins every year, or the Titans and Jags a few years ago. Considering that Mathis had a big roster bonus due in only the second year of his contract, I think it is pretty obvious that that would be turned into a signing bonus when the contract was done originally.

Manning has had a high cap number from the very beginning b/c he hit all of his incentives so early. So what the Colts are dealing with now is really nothing new.

 

[coltsfan]

I'm not holding it against him. I understand the Colts were stuck between a rock and a hard place. They did what tehy had to do. No question. But just because they had to do it doesn't mean it won't have downstream effects later on. It is getting close to later on.

His helping out is a two-edged sword. That was my point. Pushed-off bills eventually come due.

Do you realize how long we've been hearing that for?

 

[Miguel]

You're right about UDFA, the Colts work that market more than most teams.

DaBruinz, not I, was the one who brought up the UDFA and therefore deserves the credit.

 

[Miguel]

As far as Manning's eventuall cap hit goes, the Colts have been dealing with it pretty well so far and likely will in the future. What will most likely happen is the Colts will give Manning another long term contract that extends past the actual length of time that Peyton will play. The money still owed on the back end of this current contract due to the restructuring will be turned into a signing bonus that will be spread out over the life of that next contract. If he retires before that contract runs out the only thing that will be dead money is the remaining bonus money counting on those final years, which they will have been planning on all along.

Here's my WAG at what's going to happen with Manning.

http://www.patscap.com/manning.gif