Something is fishy about this Edelman suspension.

[maust]

Isn’t it pretty much an auto 4?

Yes, a first offense PED violation is an automatic 4 game suspension. At issue for many is the substance being unknown juxtaposed against the league's tendency to work backwards from a desired conclusion, leak to the press and then finally to act. The league has no one to blame but the denizens of 345 Park Ave for the skeptical view we all take of it. Their public image ranking somewhere between personal injury attorneys and real estate agents one would think they would start putting more effort into having their i's dotted and t's crossed before suspending a player and leaking word of it.

 

[Patstopia]

I just hope he didn't get a new phone since the test. The league frowns on upgrades.

 

[GoBlue]

I have not read all the material on the Edleman situation.
But has the NFL publicaly stated they didn't know what the sustance was?
If they did they they are pretty stupid.
If they did and then we find out it wasn't a banned substance Edleman may have Goodells job

 

[RobertWeathers]

Isn’t it pretty much an auto 4?

Don't know. Thats why I'm wondering. I just don't know how they can suspend a player for PED violation when they have no idea the unidentified substance was on the list of PEDs or masking agents.

 

[IllegalContact]

Don't know. Thats why I'm wondering. I just don't know how they can suspend a player for PED violation when they have no idea the unidentified substance was on the list of PEDs or masking agents.

unless it's a total bag job, it's probably just elevations of certain individual elements

if PED A = X +Y+Z

and they find some X, Y, Z, they're calling it a day

again, just a guess

 

[RobertWeathers]

unless it's a total bag job, it's probably just elevations of certain individual elements

if PED A = X +Y+Z

and they find some X, Y, Z, they're calling it a day

again, just a guess

I see what you are saying. If the NFL did that what a 1/2 ass operation they have.

 

[LaterGator]

As I recall they take 2 samples. A decent guess is they are evaluating the second sample. It's still incredibly shoddy to release results when they aren't certain what the first one was.

 

[Ring 6]

Don't know. Thats why I'm wondering. I just don't know how they can suspend a player for PED violation when they have no idea the unidentified substance was on the list of PEDs or masking agents.

What I have read says the Ped policy identifies 71 banned substances PLUS any substance that resembles the chemical makeup of those banned substances.
In other words they know of 71 but recognize new ones are being developed that they can detect but not identify because they are new versions.
I also read that it doesn’t mean they haven’t identified the substance yet just that it originally didn’t fall into the 71 but was part of the “resembling” substances.

 

[Ring 6]

As I recall they take 2 samples. A decent guess is they are evaluating the second sample. It's still incredibly shoddy to release results when they aren't certain what the first one was.

I gave read they routinely test both samples so they would have already tested the arcing sample and both had the same results.

 

[LaterGator]

I gave read they routinely test both samples so they would have already tested the arcing sample and both had the same results.

I thought that when Sherman tested positive they tested the second one and they couldn't find anything in that one.

 

[Ring 6]

I thought that when Sherman tested positive they tested the second one and they couldn't find anything in that one.

I think Sherman questioned the handling of the sample so he was retested.
What you are talking about is that they split the one sample into 2 containers to lessen the chance of tampering and test both of them.

 

[Steve102]

This is what we should refer to:

Because it’s Goodell.

They suspended Tom for BS because they can. So Jules failed a pee test for something unrecognizable. Well, it had to be recognizable enough as something. Now, having said that, I firmly believe that because the union gave the Commissioner's Office unlimited power, Emporer Goodell could suspend Jules, or anyone else for this matter, for eating Chinese take out. So, until the union gets the head out of their ass and gets a new collective bargaining agreement, it's gonna be this way.

 

[RobertWeathers]

What I have read says the Ped policy identifies 71 banned substances PLUS any substance that resembles the chemical makeup of those banned substances.
In other words they know of 71 but recognize new ones are being developed that they can detect but not identify because they are new versions.
I also read that it doesn’t mean they haven’t identified the substance yet just that it originally didn’t fall into the 71 but was part of the “resembling” substances.

Lots of room for legal challenging

 

[LaterGator]

I think Sherman questioned the handling of the sample so he was retested.
What you are talking about is that they split the one sample into 2 containers to lessen the chance of tampering and test both of them.

In essence they have tested both samples found a substance which is chemically close to known banned substance, but can't ID the exact "designer" agent.

 

[Froob]

Isn’t the drug testing portion of the NFL done by a third party? Not sure you can blame Goodell for this one, I believe the two sides negotiated for this.

 

[goheels22002]

Isn’t it pretty much an auto 4?

It's an automatic 4 game suspension for performance enhancing drugs. They don't know what he has in his system.

I don't know, but I bet Jules had the White Trash Cheese Dip at Bukowski's Tavern over by the Hynes Auditorium. There's all sorts of unidentified substances in that hot mess, but boy is it good! I guarantee you, it is not performance enhancing.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Here's the list of banned substances:
https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/Active Players/2016NFL_PES_Policy_ProhibitedSubstancesList.pdf

Notice there are broadening phrases like "and other substances with a similar chemical and similar biological effect(s)". So the banned substances list bans things that are not explicitly named on the list.

Also, perhaps the chemists here can chime in on how some of these are tested for? Can they test for the actual substance? Does the presence of the substance have to be inferred from metabolites or other breakdown products?

As I've mentioned in other posts, could be it be that this is a case where the banned thing can only be detected via inference from metabolites, but you have several things (including, potentially, things not on the list) that have the same metabolites, making it hard to identify just what the substance was?

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Sometimes the substances are long-lasting and are directly detected, other times you rely in a metabolite fingerprint to infer that they had been present.

That the banned substances list bans things that are not explicitly named on the list is important.

An example: steroids have some characteristic chemical and physical properties: they are nonpolar (greasy), have a certain expected molecular weight range, have a certain behavior / stickyness on the chromatography columns used in the LC-MS tests. So theoretically a technician can see a peak in the drug testing data and say "wow, in chromatography behavior and molecular weight, that looks like it is a steroid in its properties, even though it doesn't match a known steroid on the banned list."

I'm not saying that the NFL cares crap about science, but there COULD be some science behind a suspicion of what an unknown substance might turn out to be.

 

[LaterGator]

Sometimes the substances are long-lasting and are directly detected, other times you rely in a metabolite fingerprint to infer that they had been present.

That the banned substances list bans things that are not explicitly named on the list is important.

An example: steroids have some characteristic chemical and physical properties: they are nonpolar (greasy), have a certain expected molecular weight range, have a certain behavior / stickyness on the chromatography columns used in the LC-MS tests. So theoretically a technician can see a peak in the drug testing data and say "wow, in chromatography behavior and molecular weight, that looks like it is a steroid in its properties, even though it doesn't match a known steroid on the banned list."

I'm not saying that the NFL cares crap about science, but there COULD be some science behind a suspicion of what an unknown substance might turn out to be.

Yup if it's chemically close to a banned substance they should know that much.

 

[Ring 6]

Lots of room for legal challenging

I don’t think so. The players agreed to the ped policy. You can’t agree them turn around and say you don’t like it because it’s vague.
I’m not a chemist but I would assume it’s easy to make slight variations of the 71 substances which are just as much PEDs even though they aren’t on the known list.