Sherman: Legal action could be considered if Eric Reid isn't signed.

[patman52]

I don't think so.
If this were true, lots of such contract would have been signed.

From what side- the players or the owners

 

[fnordcircle]

Never doubt a unions ability to ruin everything

Yeah, like the 7 day work week. Jerks.

 

[fnordcircle]

Safety market seems like it’s in freeze, but putting that aside, I’m not sure how you can go to court and quantify how good of a player Reid is in a legal sense.

Since it would be a civil suit I think it'd be pretty easy to convince a judge that his stats on paper look better than other players who have found a home. I don't think proving he is a better player than other players who have already been signed would be a hurdle at all.

The big hurdle would be in proving that teams were avoiding him due to his politics and not because of things like scheme fit, asking price, locker room attitude, etc. Those things are why I think this case would be a loser.

 

[Froob]

Since it would be a civil suit I think it'd be pretty easy to convince a judge that his stats on paper look better than other players who have found a home. I don't think proving he is a better player than other players who have already been signed would be a hurdle at all.

The big hurdle would be in proving that teams were avoiding him due to his politics and not because of things like scheme fit, asking price, locker room attitude, etc. Those things are why I think this case would be a loser.

How about the Jordan Richards defense? Granted, a good portion of America could sue if just being better than him is proof of discrimination and collusion.

 

[fnordcircle]

How about the Jordan Richards defense? Granted, a good portion of America could sue if just being better than him is proof of discrimination and collusion.

Dear God, if the plaintiff's attorneys ever catch wind of this the NFL will be bankrupted by this case.

 

[Froob]

Dear God, if the plaintiff's attorneys ever catch wind of this the NFL will be bankrupted by this case.

They’d be bankrupt faster than a leather shop in Arizona.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Say the player in the existing environment would be a 5 year 60 mill with a 20 mill bonus.
The owner may well be inclined to give him 5 years 44 mill and fully guarantee it.

Exactly. I'm not going to speak to the specific numbers, but if contracts were fully guaranteed they would be for less. You're asking the owners to take on the risk, and they will demand to be compensated for shouldering that risk.

One reason more contracts aren't guaranteed, IMHO, is that players prefer to roll the dice on themselves. If you manage to play out a non-guaranteed contract you will end up with more $$$ than if you played out a guaranteed contract of equal length.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

That was more a discussion point for law students. A contract for a term of years, when promised, would seem to be equally binding on both parties. In the case of NFL contracts, only one party appears bound to the deal.

But it's not like it was a unilateral contract/contract of adhesion. The player is going in eyes open, and is represented by high powered agents/lawyers. And the player voluntarily chose to forego a guarantee in return for higher pay. The player could have chosen to take less pay in exchange for a guarantee.

 

[fnordcircle]

They’d be bankrupt faster than a leather shop in Arizona.

Yeah and GIVE ME A CHIP

 

[Joker]

why would a leather shop go bankrupt in the middle of cowboy land and why would anyone give you a "chip"? What "chip"? A buffalo chip? A Chippermonkey buddy? A chip off the ol' Dan Blocker? You can't mean Chip from "My Three Sons"...

 

[mgteich]

Exactly. I'm not going to speak to the specific numbers, but if contracts were fully guaranteed they would be for less. You're asking the owners to take on the risk, and they will demand to be compensated for shouldering that risk.

One reason more contracts aren't guaranteed, IMHO, is that players prefer to roll the dice on themselves. If you manage to play out a non-guaranteed contract you will end up with more $$$ than if you played out a guaranteed contract of equal length.

The OPEN question is why all owners and players prefer contracts that are not guaranteed (until last week).

Surely some owner and some players are interested in signing a guaranteed contracts. Why have none been signed. Surely, there is no collusion among owners, or pressure from the union.

 

[XLIX]

Is that because of personal feelings or because of the suspected problems it could cause on the team and with the fans?

Does that distinction even matter from a legal standpoint?

IMHO....

The reason why Team A doesn't sign Kaepernick is irrelevant. The owner might say "I don't want any kneelers on my team." Or they might say "I don't care about the kneeling, but Kaepernick is a huge distraction that I don't want."

If 32 owners independently make that determination, I don't think there is anything he can do about it. But if it turns out there are text messages amongst owners saying "ok I won't sign him if you don't" or emails saying "let's all show this SOB a lesson!" then that would be collusion.

 

[Deus Irae]

The OPEN question is why all owners and players prefer contracts that are not guaranteed (until last week).

Surely some owner and some players are interested in signing a guaranteed contracts. Why have none been signed. Surely, there is no collusion among owners, or pressure from the union.

That author guessed wrong on the QB, but he did a pretty good job with the rest of the article:

Markazi: Why NBA beats NFL in guaranteed $

 

[XLIX]

Exactly. I'm not going to speak to the specific numbers, but if contracts were fully guaranteed they would be for less. You're asking the owners to take on the risk, and they will demand to be compensated for shouldering that risk.

One reason more contracts aren't guaranteed, IMHO, is that players prefer to roll the dice on themselves. If you manage to play out a non-guaranteed contract you will end up with more $$$ than if you played out a guaranteed contract of equal length.

I think this is something the players don't realize. They think if contract were fully guaranteed, then they would still be getting the same contracts - which is ridiculous.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The OPEN question is why all owners and players prefer contracts that are not guaranteed (until last week).

Surely some owner and some players are interested in signing a guaranteed contracts. Why have none been signed. Surely, there is no collusion among owners, or pressure from the union.

Ol' Adam Vinatieri had a guaranteed contract from NE at one point in his career.

 

[primetime]

Since it would be a civil suit I think it'd be pretty easy to convince a judge that his stats on paper look better than other players who have found a home. I don't think proving he is a better player than other players who have already been signed would be a hurdle at all.

The big hurdle would be in proving that teams were avoiding him due to his politics and not because of things like scheme fit, asking price, locker room attitude, etc. Those things are why I think this case would be a loser.

It would more likely be a grievance filed with an arbitrator and ultimately the NLRB (and then you'dgo to the circuit). But the union has a legal process akin to discovery that lets them access documents and communication if they have a particularized need regarding representation. In this case you'd ask for all communication between owners regarding Eric Reid in the last year or something and hope to find some sort of evidence that the owners were colluding, which would be a breach of the CBA.

Having done this as a union steward several times, you very rarely find something unless the violation is procedural and they didn't cross their t's or dot their i's (usually out of arrogance). Management is rarely stupid enough to leave a paper trail for these kind of violations, assuming the phenomenon is real in the first place.

(It rarely is, and I'm assuming that's the case here as well. Kenny Vaccaro is still on the market, as are Tre Boston and Tyvon Branch. Eric Reid just isn't that good, and he's in a buyer's market for mediocre safeties.)

 

[fnordcircle]

It would more likely be a grievance filed with an arbitrator and ultimately the NLRB (and then you'dgo to the circuit). But the union has a legal process akin to discovery that lets them access documents and communication if they have a particularized need regarding representation. In this case you'd ask for all communication between owners regarding Eric Reid in the last year or something and hope to find some sort of evidence that the owners were colluding, which would be a breach of the CBA.

Having done this as a union steward several times, you very rarely find something unless the violation is procedural and they didn't cross their t's or dot their i's (usually out of arrogance). Management is rarely stupid enough to leave a paper trail for these kind of violations, assuming the phenomenon is real in the first place.

(It rarely is, and I'm assuming that's the case here as well. Kenny Vaccaro is still on the market, as are Tre Boston and Tyvon Branch. Eric Reid just isn't that good, and he's in a buyer's market for mediocre safeties.)

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected],[email protected]
Subject: These black assholes

Let's never sign Reid or the afro kid because they hate America.

-Bill

 

[XLIX]

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected],[email protected]
Subject: These black assholes

Let's never sign Reid or the afro kid because they hate America.

-Bill

That actually wouldn’t be collusion. That’s a completely internal Patriots matter, which is perfectly allowable.

The $64,000 question is if any such email exists sent from one owner to another. (Ok maybe not worded precisely as you worded it above, but something along those lines).

 

[Ring 6]

why would a leather shop go bankrupt in the middle of cowboy land and why would anyone give you a "chip"? What "chip"? A buffalo chip? A Chippermonkey buddy? A chip off the ol' Dan Blocker? You can't mean Chip from "My Three Sons"...

That’s Ernie

 

[Joker]

That’s Ernie

right...here's Ernie and Chip having a hootenanny