Rank QBs Brady, Brees, Ben, Rodgers, Manning, Marino by the Poll

[mosi]

Rings are only part of the conversation and at best a tiebreaker, IMHO, because much about rings is outside the QB's control.

Surely no sane person would claim that Bob Griese (2 rings) was a better QB than Marino (1 ring). Or that Eli (2 rings) is just as good as Goober (2 rings). Or that Eli and Griese are better than Brees (1 ring) or Rodgers (1 ring).

What is Marino's ring for? Participation?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yeah the rings argument bugs me because it's really lazy. There's so much that goes into winning a championship season and people try to make it all about the QB or all about the system depending on what pre-existing bias they're trying to prove out.

Ultimately I think all we can do is try to figure out how we think a given QB would perform if all things were equal. Like the old Marino vs. Montana debate. My guess is Marino would have made a ton of throws Joe couldn't make but Joe was probably more reliable in crunch time. As long as John Candy was in the stands, I guess.

But 'more rings = better than' doesn't do much for me.

5 rings by itself vastly undersells Brady’s accomplishments. I do believe there is one standalone statistic that does make him the unquestionable greatest, which is his .772 (.778 regular season) winning percentage over an absurd amount of time. That’s the number, which, if compared to others, stands out in dominance like Gretzky or Ruth. It is a team game, but it’s so far above the norm, the superstar norm, and even the Hall of Fame norm, that an easy argument can made that no other player could ever match it regardless of their surroundings. I don’t think most people realize just how humongous this gap is and how virtually impossible it is to sustain.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

What is Marino's ring for? Participation?

Ha! I went back and edited my post.

 

[libra957]

Yeah the rings argument bugs me because it's really lazy. There's so much that goes into winning a championship season and people try to make it all about the QB or all about the system depending on what pre-existing bias they're trying to prove out.

Ultimately I think all we can do is try to figure out how we think a given QB would perform if all things were equal. Like the old Marino vs. Montana debate. My guess is Marino would have made a ton of throws Joe couldn't make but Joe was probably more reliable in crunch time. As long as John Candy was in the stands, I guess.

But 'more rings = better than' doesn't do much for me.

Rings should be part of the equation because the game is changing. The NFL is morphing into flag football and stats have been inflated beyond the norm. For Brady's case, 5 rings, 4 sb MVP is harder to do than inflating your stats in the regular season. Regular season MVP should also matter as well, and a premium should be put on the eye test.

 

[mosi]

Ha! I went back and edited my post.

I will never forgot when Boomer suggested that Manning was basically this generations Dan Marino - in regards to not being able to win playoff games. The look on Mannings face was priceless.

edit: fixed Marino's name.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Rings should be part of the equation because the game is changing. The NFL is morphing into flag football and stats have been inflated beyond the norm. For Brady's case, 5 rings, 4 sb MVP is harder to do than inflating your stats in the regular season. Regular season MVP should also matter as well, and a premium should be put on the eye test.

Why you’re right: winning is the ultimate equalizer across eras.

Why you’re wrong: Eli Manning

 

[Hyped]

Brady - My main man and a five time SB champ.
Manning - Love or hate him, one of the most unstoppable QB's I ever saw.
Rodgers - Clutch performer and probably the best thrower and runner of the bunch.
Brees - Longevity....and a consistent performer.
Marino - Just in the wrong era.
Roethlisberger - Vastly underrated, but where he should be on this list.

 

[BobDigital]

Staubach is basically the exact opposite of Bradshaw in this discussion, in that the advanced metrics actually bear out that he was an incredible QB. He had a short career on account of military service, but in the 9 years he played his median rate+ was 125, which is insanely good. I can't say with certainty that it's the best ever, but it's better than Brady's, Manning's, Brees', Rodgers', Montana's, etc.

I don't think he belongs anywhere near the GOAT conversation because he just didn't play long enough, but unlike Bradshaw at least his body of work when he did play does put him in this class of QBs.

I have continuously put Staubach at #3. He is the most underrated an in history. He just had the bad luck to have a short career playing against so many super teams.

I might even be talked in to taking him over montana.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Brady - My main man and a five time SB champ.
Manning - Love or hate him, one of the most unstoppable QB's I ever saw.
Rodgers - Clutch performer and probably the best thrower and runner of the bunch.
Brees - Longevity....and a consistent performer.
Marino - Just in the wrong era.
Roethlisberger - Vastly underrated, but where he should be on this list.

Roethlisberger has played 14 seasons and very often had skill players that are among the very best in the league. He has never been in the discussion All-Pro honors (first or second team). He’s never been in an MVP conversation after 16 games. You shouldn’t be in the discussion of greatest players of an era when you’re never in the discussion of greatest players in a season.

 

[mosslost]

No love for Luck?

 

[dannydyn]

Brady, Rodgers, Brees, my Grandma, Manning, Marino.

Ben doesn't count, he's a rapist.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I will never forgot when Boomer suggested that Manning was basically this generations Dan Marion - in regards to not being able to win playoff games. The look on Mannings face was priceless.

You mean on Marino's face. I thought he was going to slug Esiason. An all-time great football moment!

 

[Hyped]

Roethlisberger has played 14 seasons and very often had skill players that are among the very best in the league. He has never been in the discussion All-Pro honors (first or second team). He’s never been in an MVP conversation after 16 games. You shouldn’t be in the discussion of greatest players of an era when you’re never in the discussion of greatest players in a season.

That is why Big Ben is underrated, he played in an era dominated by two of the greatest QB's to ever play and yet won two Superbowls.....one with a clutch drive to win it on a Holmes tip toe TD. He does nothing, but throw for 4k yards and a positive TD/INT ratio year in and out. He is also very durable.

 

[TommyD4207]

100%. Better players and a great defense carried him and I will fight you if I ever come across you in RL

Someone had to throw the ball to Swann and Stallworth to get them into the HoF.

I generally agree with your point, but Trent Dilfer? Come on.

 

[TommyD4207]

Roethlisberger has played 14 seasons and very often had skill players that are among the very best in the league. He has never been in the discussion All-Pro honors (first or second team). He’s never been in an MVP conversation after 16 games. You shouldn’t be in the discussion of greatest players of an era when you’re never in the discussion of greatest players in a season.

Or greatest players in a season on your own team.

 

[TommyD4207]

You mean on Marino's face. I thought he was going to slug Esiason. An all-time great football moment!

He would have, but he just would have missed.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

That is why Big Ben is underrated, he played in an era dominated by two of the greatest QB's to ever play and yet won two Superbowls.....one with a clutch drive to win it on a Holmes tip toe TD. He does nothing, but throw for 4k yards and a positive TD/INT ratio year in and out. He is also very durable.

Underrated compared to what? He’s rated about where he should be by the general consensus, which is a very good player who is certainly well above average, and one of the better players in Steelers history. But comparing him to the other guys on this list? He isn’t in that discussion. In this era if you’re not getting 4,000 yards or have a negative TD:INT ratio you aren’t a starter and probably aren’t even in the NFL, so I don’t see your point. If you’re going off of winning as a major consideration, where are Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, and Troy Aikman? Ben is a good to very good QB but not an all-time great.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Or greatest players in a season on your own team.

Since the elite Steelers defense broke up around 2010, he has 3 playoff wins.

 

[fnordcircle]

Someone had to throw the ball to Swann and Stallworth to get them into the HoF.

I generally agree with your point, but Trent Dilfer? Come on.

Poor Man's Troy Aikman then?

 

[TommyD4207]

Poor Man's Troy Aikman then?

Aikman was more accurate, but that's at least fair.