OT: Rick Nash to Bruins for 1st rounder, Lindgren, Spooner and Belesky

[patman12]

I see Rick Nash is already helping the bruins lol

I have a we’ll see attitude with this trade but you can’t judge after 1 game and zero practice time.

 

[patman12]

well, of course. i actually think spooner projects the best at 3rd line center, but some
thinks is d stinks at center. i have
never felt that way, but whatever.

He’s not a great or even very good back checker. He also struggles with playing a physical game. He’s gotten better but with the cheaper, less expensive talent in the pipeline, he was expendable.

 

[primetime]

First round picks are very valuable, and you can find a lot of talent beyond the top 10. In fact, Boston's youth moment is largely based on having had a lot of 1st round picks in the past few seasons. All of Boston's first round picks since 2010

Seguin
Hamilton
Subban
Pastrnak
Zboril
Debrusk
Senyshyn
McAvoy
Frederic
Vaakanainen

Either are, or look as if they will be, legitimate NHL players, with the possible exception being Subban, who was a very questionable pick from the beginning. The last definite 1st round bust for the Bruins was Jordan Caron, in 2009.

It's purely aspirational at this point to say the likes of Zboril, Senyshyn, Vaakainen, or Frederic will be NHL regulars. Two of them have yet to touch pro ice in North America and the other two have been having unremarkable first seasons in Providence after up and down junior careers.

On the other hand, Subban's been phenomenal this year in Vegas.

Aside from Pastrnak, a lot of the guys were top-10 or even top-3 picks who have made it. There's a big dropoff in the NHL draft that's more akin to the NBA. There's no real reason to mourn a pick outside the top 20 for a veteran top-6 winger who led the league in even strength goals a few years ago and isn't old by hockey standards. It would have been better if they didn't have to give up the 1st but fans tend to overvalue potential. (That said, giving up 19 year olds playing at a high level like Seguin and Hamilton was ridiculous).

 

[primetime]

He’s not a great or even very good back checker. He also struggles with playing a physical game. He’s gotten better but with the cheaper, less expensive talent in the pipeline, he was expendable.

With Spooner it was a question of trading him now or trading him in the offseason. They weren't going to pay him what he's going to get.

 

[primetime]

I know, I’m a rangers fan who was just having fun...

Tonight was a weird game. Bruins were tired but completely dominated play at times (there was one absurd sequence where they kept the puck for two minutes in the Sabres zone at even strength but didn't score) and yet couldn't finish and gave up some easy goals.

Nash looked like arguably the best player on the ice though. Clanked one off the post at one point. Drew a penalty. Looked like a big upgrade over Spooner for the Krejci line.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Tonight was a weird game. Bruins were tired but completely dominated play at times (there was one absurd sequence where they kept the puck for two minutes in the Sabres zone at even strength but didn't score) and yet couldn't finish and gave up some easy goals.

Nash looked like arguably the best player on the ice though. Clanked one off the post at one point. Drew a penalty. Looked like a big upgrade over Spooner for the Krejci line.

delete

 

[Deus Irae]

It's purely aspirational at this point to say the likes of Zboril, Senyshyn, Vaakainen, or Frederic will be NHL regulars. Two of them have yet to touch pro ice in North America and the other two have been having unremarkable first seasons in Providence after up and down junior careers.

On the other hand, Subban's been phenomenal this year in Vegas.

Aside from Pastrnak, a lot of the guys were top-10 or even top-3 picks who have made it. There's a big dropoff in the NHL draft that's more akin to the NBA. There's no real reason to mourn a pick outside the top 20 for a veteran top-6 winger who led the league in even strength goals a few years ago and isn't old by hockey standards. It would have been better if they didn't have to give up the 1st but fans tend to overvalue potential.

McAvoy was picked 14th
Debrusk was picked 14th
Subban was picked 24th
Frederic was drafted 29th, and is on pace to get to the NHL (barring injury)
Zboril was drafted 13th, and is a lock to get to the NHL (barring injury)
Senyshyn was drafted 15th and had an up and down season, but he's got NHL talent


If you want to understand why the Bruins declined in the 90s and early 2000s, you can start by looking at their first round picks.

If you want to understand why the Bruins missed the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 seasons, and the team started declining after peaking from 2011-2013, you can start by noting that they were stupid enough to trade Seguin away without getting nearly enough in return.

Fans may overvalue potential, but you're undervaluing the pick.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

McAvoy was picked 14th
Debrusk was picked 14th
Subban was picked 24th
Frederic was drafted 29th, and is on pace to get to the NHL (barring injury)
Zboril was drafted 13th, and is a lock to get to the NHL (barring injury)
Senyshyn was drafted 15th and had an up and down season, but he's got NHL talent


If you want to understand why the Bruins declined in the 90s and early 2000s, you can start by looking at their first round picks.

If you want to understand why the Bruins missed the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 seasons, and the team started declining after peaking from 2011-2013, you can start by noting that they were stupid enough to trade Seguin away without getting nearly enough in return.

Fans may overvalue potential, but you're undervaluing the pick.

good post, but the bruins had this bizarre arrogance they shouldn’t have had, and it clearly channeled down from jacobs. he basically was responsible for both lockouts and the salary structure of how the league is now. normally, this is a good thing as it ensures a healthy league, but he spents years leading up to each lockout, completely not interested in the organization’s focus and chance at trying to win. i mean, the fact he is in the hockey hall of fame due to his greed, is a disgrace.

how on earth jacobs is remotely well received in this town, i have no idea. he is a horrible leader and ceo.

his age at this point and likely diminished role
now is kinda funny how the team is being run better.

it is like the wirtz family chicago, which was arguably was worse than jacobs here. the guy dies and his son takes over to immediately form a dynasty. not a coincidence. you have to care for it to matter.

i was stunned to see jacobs jr. (sinden), is still
a “consultant”. i mean, go home already!

ugh..i would argue the bruins fan is the most loyal in boston and part of the reason why jacobs went unchecked for so long.

i hope charlie jacobs is not like his dad and i don’t think he will be.

 

[Froob]

I’ve called a few hockey games for UMaine student radio and gotta say this Jeremy Swayman kid is impressive. I hear legendary former UMaine assistant coach Grant Stanbrook loves him. He’s going to be great in the NHL, whether that’s with the Bruins or somebody else.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

spooner with 2 assists tonight!

 

[primetime]

McAvoy was picked 14th
Debrusk was picked 14th
Subban was picked 24th
Frederic was drafted 29th, and is on pace to get to the NHL (barring injury)
Zboril was drafted 13th, and is a lock to get to the NHL (barring injury)
Senyshyn was drafted 15th and had an up and down season, but he's got NHL talent


If you want to understand why the Bruins declined in the 90s and early 2000s, you can start by looking at their first round picks.

If you want to understand why the Bruins missed the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 seasons, and the team started declining after peaking from 2011-2013, you can start by noting that they were stupid enough to trade Seguin away without getting nearly enough in return.

Fans may overvalue potential, but you're undervaluing the pick.

The pick's going to be in the late 20s in all likelihood. I'm still not sold on many of their prospects and still can't believe they passed on Kyle Connor and Mathew Barzal.

The Seguin trade was a travesty, on the other hand. Giving up on a kid who was playing meaningful NHL minutes on a playoff team at age 18. Cam Neely in reverse. It was indefensible when it happened and it's even more indefensible now. A symptom of a franchise more in love with "grit" than talent.

I think this trade obviously depends on the season's outcome. If they win a Cup then it was all worth it. If not, then it wasn't. I don't think what they gave up is the end of the world.

It's a move like Kaberle in 2010-11, but Nash is better at this point than Kaberle was then. They gave up Colborne and a 2nd for Kaberle. At the time, lots of people were saying they gave up too much. In the end, Colborne is an AHLer and the 2nd rounder (traded several more times before it was used, including for John-Michael Liles) turned into someone named Mike Winther who didn't even make the AHL.

 

[FCB02062]

Like the trade, really need a deep Bs run to take sports mind of that football game a few weeks ago

 

[Ivan]

Tonight was a weird game. Bruins were tired but completely dominated play at times (there was one absurd sequence where they kept the puck for two minutes in the Sabres zone at even strength but didn't score) and yet couldn't finish and gave up some easy goals.

Nash looked like arguably the best player on the ice though. Clanked one off the post at one point. Drew a penalty. Looked like a big upgrade over Spooner for the Krejci line.

The most important aspect of getting Nash could well be improved play from Krejci. Krejci was the leading scorer in the playoffs the last two times they made the Stanley Cup Finals, and the combined offense from Nash and Krejci in the playoffs could make the Bruins much stronger offensively when it matters most. Krejci was a much better player when he was playing with Lucic, hopefully this will bring the same dynamic

 

[Sicilian]

How valuable are these first round picks? I’m only a casual hockey fan. Are they comparable to the NFL or more than the NBA where these late First don’t have a lot of value?

They're pretty valuable, but a lot of time the value isn't seen right away. It's not quite as delayed as baseball draft picks, but it's a lot more rare for an NHL 1st rounder to jump in right away and contribute (outside of the generational talents like Crosby, etc), compared to football or basketball players.

I know, I’m a rangers fan who was just having some fun...

Rangers fan here too. Hoping this is a legit rebuild and we're not just going to fill the holes with new high priced FA now. I'm thirsty for a homegrown star or two.

 

[primetime]

On the draft, take a look at the 2014 draft as an example (2014 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com). It's the most recent draft where you can really expect players to have shaken out or not by now, with the caveat that goalies tend to bloom much later and borderline NCAA players are often allowed to play out their whole college career for contract management purposes.

Look at the NHL stats of the first 10 picks compared to the last 10 in the 1st round. Then look at the 2nd round. There's a huge dropoff in value and safety after the first 10 or so picks in any draft. Finding a Pastrnak, a late 1st round guy who can play in the NHL day one and be a star by the time his rookie contract is up, is very rare.

Even more pronounced in 2013, when the college players can be expected to have come or gone: 2013 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

 

[Ivan]

There are some really knowledgeable hockey fans here. It sounds like the Rangers won’t trade McDonagh in the division, so Tampa Bay is the most likely landing place for him. If so they are going to be much tougher to get past in the playoffs. So my questions turn to Erik Karlsson and what it would take to get him away from Ottawa? They used their 2018 1st, so it will take young prospects and a salary dump so they can accommodate Ryan’s salary, which they would have to take half of.

I honestly don’t know what it would take, and I’m interested to see what people can come up with? Would Pasternak, Carlo, and Frederic, as well as their 2019 1st get it done? Or is that too much? Ideas?

 

[primetime]

Pastrnak is absolutely untouchable, and Carlo should also be nearly untouchable. McDonagh is good but we're not talking Karlsson or Doughty here. Yeah, it will be tough to face a team with an explosive offense that features Hedman and McDonagh, but hopefully they've learned their lesson about trading away young NHL-caliber talent after Wheeler, Seguin, and Hamilton. (Spooner doesn't count because he was going to be traded one way or the other and I think he's mostly tapped out on the player he's going to be.)

Between Holden, Nash, and Gionta they're probably tapped out on moves. Holden was a headscratcher as I don't know if he's even as good as McQuaid, but he at least ends the Paul Postma experience. I liked the Gionta move. He's fresh and looked like he still had something left in the tank at the Olympics. At worst, he provides depth in case of injury or if you want to rest someone with the gruelling schedule they have. In any case, I'd rather he sit in the press box than someone like Cehlarik who's better served with playing time in Providence.

 

[Ivan]

Pastrnak is absolutely untouchable, and Carlo should also be nearly untouchable. McDonagh is good but we're not talking Karlsson or Doughty here. Yeah, it will be tough to face a team with an explosive offense that features Hedman and McDonagh, but hopefully they've learned their lesson about trading away young NHL-caliber talent after Wheeler, Seguin, and Hamilton. (Spooner doesn't count because he was going to be traded one way or the other and I think he's mostly tapped out on the player he's going to be.)

Between Holden, Nash, and Gionta they're probably tapped out on moves. Holden was a headscratcher as I don't know if he's even as good as McQuaid, but he at least ends the Paul Postma experience. I liked the Gionta move. He's fresh and looked like he still had something left in the tank at the Olympics. At worst, he provides depth in case of injury or if you want to rest someone with the gruelling schedule they have. In any case, I'd rather he sit in the press box than someone like Cehlarik who's better served with playing time in Providence.

I can see McAvoy being untouchable, but not Pasternak and Carlo, not when Karlsson is the target. I do appreciate the input though.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

They're pretty valuable, but a lot of time the value isn't seen right away. It's not quite as delayed as baseball draft picks, but it's a lot more rare for an NHL 1st rounder to jump in right away and contribute (outside of the generational talents like Crosby, etc), compared to football or basketball players.



Rangers fan here too. Hoping this is a legit rebuild and we're not just going to fill the holes with new high priced FA now. I'm thirsty for a homegrown star or two.

May I ask a question? How does one become a "Rangers fan here too", if you're a Pats fan?

That's incredibly bizarre. Are you Adam Sandler?

 

[Chris Stevenson]

spooner with 2 assists tonight!

Great. Just great.