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Nope, Tim Tebow can't play in the NFL


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While Tebow is a winner, and a competitor, and a grinder, and a football player....he is NOT a good NFL QB. His throwing motion is extremely poor. His footwork and pocket awareness is awful! He completed 9/20 passes for 120 yards last night. He misread countless plays and missed wide open receivers last night. He would make a GREAT H back, or TE....or some hybrid player. Once DC figure out how to contain and force him to throw ....not run etc...:the Tebow experience as a starting NFL QB....will be over

Isn't it interesting how this young man does nothing but win in the NFL with 4th qtr comeback drives. He marches his team down the field when his dopey coaching staff takes the ball and chain off his ankle and he's allowed to "play" in the NFL.
Can you imagine what a Charlie Weis would do for this kids development??
Been saying this from day one. Tim Tebow is a winner whose critics are far more offensive than anything Tebow ever does.
Choke on that Sexy Rexy.......
 
While Tebow is a winner, and a competitor, and a grinder, and a football player....he is NOT a good NFL QB. His throwing motion is extremely poor. His footwork and pocket awareness is awful! He completed 9/20 passes for 120 yards last night. He misread countless plays and missed wide open receivers last night. He would make a GREAT H back, or TE....or some hybrid player. Once DC figure out how to contain and force him to throw ....not run etc...:the Tebow experience as a starting NFL QB....will be over

That's the biggest thing right now. Tebow can't throw.

He and his team are winning right now, but he's not going to learn how to throw before teams figure him out and he's back on the bench.

It's a great "Rudy" story and maybe in 20 years they'll make a movie called "Tebow" about a good guy who "just wanted to play football", was trashed in the media from day 1, and had to battle with faith and family while dealing with the emotions of being an NFL player.

Coaches said he had bad form, people said he couldn't throw, but his goal was to prove them all wrong! He got his start and carried his team to 6 wins in the final 11 games, narrowly missing the playoffs but giving Broncos fans a reason to celebrate once more.

It will be narrated by the Morgan Freeman of 20 years from now, they'll probably add some lies like the Broncos were on the brink of being moved to L.A. and Orton was constantly trying to sabotage his career. Then they'll briefly mention how Tebow went on to play 2 more season of pro ball, winning 10 more games (ignoring that's out of 32 possible games) before becoming a minister somewhere, where you can still see him on the Broncos sidelines prior to games on Sunday, blessing that team.

Someone is probably writing the story right now.
 
While Tebow is a winner, and a competitor, and a grinder, and a football player....he is NOT a good NFL QB. His throwing motion is extremely poor. His footwork and pocket awareness is awful! He completed 9/20 passes for 120 yards last night. He misread countless plays and missed wide open receivers last night. He would make a GREAT H back, or TE....or some hybrid player. Once DC figure out how to contain and force him to throw ....not run etc...:the Tebow experience as a starting NFL QB....will be over

You assessment of his QB skills is spot on, but what indication do you have that he'd be good as an H-Back or Tight End? Can he run routes? Block? Catch a pass?

Let's face it. The guy's only shot is as a QB. Maybe he'll turn into Steve Young and prove all the realists wrong. Highly doubt it though.
 
That's the biggest thing right now. Tebow can't throw.

He and his team are winning right now, but he's not going to learn how to throw before teams figure him out and he's back on the bench.

It's a great "Rudy" story and maybe in 20 years they'll make a movie called "Tebow" about a good guy who "just wanted to play football", was trashed in the media from day 1, and had to battle with faith and family while dealing with the emotions of being an NFL player.

Coaches said he had bad form, people said he couldn't throw, but his goal was to prove them all wrong! He got his start and carried his team to 6 wins in the final 11 games, narrowly missing the playoffs but giving Broncos fans a reason to celebrate once more.

It will be narrated by the Morgan Freeman of 20 years from now, they'll probably add some lies like the Broncos were on the brink of being moved to L.A. and Orton was constantly trying to sabotage his career. Then they'll briefly mention how Tebow went on to play 2 more season of pro ball, winning 10 more games (ignoring that's out of 32 possible games) before becoming a minister somewhere, where you can still see him on the Broncos sidelines prior to games on Sunday, blessing that team.

Someone is probably writing the story right now.

A movie about an underdog will never fly in America.

We hate feel-good, Horatio Alger claptrap!
 
You assessment of his QB skills is spot on, but what indication do you have that he'd be good as an H-Back or Tight End? Can he run routes? Block? Catch a pass?

Let's face it. The guy's only shot is as a QB. Maybe he'll turn into Steve Young and prove all the realists wrong. Highly doubt it though.

Actually, converted QBs are often successful at other positions, especially receiver.
 
You assessment of his QB skills is spot on, but what indication do you have that he'd be good as an H-Back or Tight End? Can he run routes? Block? Catch a pass?

Let's face it. The guy's only shot is as a QB. Maybe he'll turn into Steve Young and prove all the realists wrong. Highly doubt it though.

QBs spend more time handling the ball than anyone, they usually have good enough hands to catch a pass, especially ones who run the shotgun all day. ...and we know the kid can run. I think he'd be a great threat as a HB with the option to throw or run a simple slant/out and use his size/power to his advantage while allowing a more accurate and polished passer to run the offense.

Tebow might be one of the better football players on that team, and surely should be utilized very often, but he is not the best quarterback on the team. Until his mechanics and accuracy improve I think they should use him in ways other than a QB. I still believe that Denver is winning because its defense stepped up and has been exceptional at harassing QB's and forcing turnovers in the victories.

I've said it before, I have absolutely nothing against him and would like to see him succeed as long as it isn't against the Pats, but, I just don't think he will see any sustained success as a quarterback, despite his tremendous work ethic and physical talent.
 
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QBs spend more time handling the ball than anyone, they usually have good enough hands to catch a pass, especially ones who run the shotgun all day.

There's a HUGE difference between running a crisp route, making adjustments based upon coverage reads, getting open, and catching passes thrown in hard-to-catch areas in order to prevent interceptions; and handling a shotgun snap. Skills for the latter don't translate to the formers. That's without mentioning blocking duties.

He hasn't proven that he's willing or able to have receiving duties and he probably wouldn't excel as a running back. His only realistic option is as a QB. His completion pct last year was roughly 50%. His completion pct this year is roughly 44%. His teams wins DESPITE him, not because of him.
 
There's a HUGE difference between running a crisp route, making adjustments based upon coverage reads, getting open, and catching passes thrown in hard-to-catch areas in order to prevent interceptions; and handling a shotgun snap. Skills for the latter don't translate to the formers. That's without mentioning blocking duties.

He hasn't proven that he's willing or able to have receiving duties and he probably wouldn't excel as a running back. His only realistic option is as a QB. His completion pct last year was roughly 50%. His completion pct this year is roughly 44%. His teams wins DESPITE him, not because of him.

Given the team's record with and without him, that's obviously not true.
 
If Joe Kapp can lead his team to the Super Bowl, Tim Tebow certainly can...Kapp led the Vikes to the Bowl throwing end over end, wobble ducks all season.
 
Anyone care to think the defense is playing better with Tebow because he doesn't turn the ball over? Another underrated trait about him, usually young QBs are turnover machines.
 
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Given the team's record with and without him, that's obviously not true.

I think it's a bit of both. Without the defense playing lights out against the Jets, the Broncos lose. Without Fox working his game plan based on what little Tebow brings behind the center, the Broncos lose. And, without Tebow marching down the field on the last drive basically running the entire way himself, the Broncos lose.

Tebow has pretty much done one huge thing for the Broncos, he made them completely focus the offense on a wide variety of runs and option plays opposed to even pretend it's a passing offense. That's not saying much for the QB himself, but it has at least given the team focus and direction, and it's been working... so far.

This whole "Tebow is a winner" talk I hear is absolute crap, and I'm shocked to see it on this board here and there. We've all seen Cassel win 11 games in 2008 only to win just over 1/3 of that amount the next year with a new team. They then overhauled their coaching and ended up winning 10 the next year. So did Cassel go from a 'winner' to a 'loser' back to a 'winner' in a three season span?

It's all moot, like mentioned before, this is just stuff to talk about for the season. Tebow has a very small window to learn how to throw before he's figured out, and the biggest story will be whether or not he can do that. Based on some of the throws he made last night, I wouldn't put money on that.
 
The NFL is littered with competitors. Kyle Orton is a competitor.

Look, I'm not saying that Tebow is the next Steve Young. I'm saying that, right now, he's on a run where he's a good enough QB to win games with a team that couldn't win with a so-called "better" QB. Patriots fans should know better than to belittle this. It's how the Brady era began.

The Brady era began with Brady completing 63.9% of his passes. Tebow is completing 44.8% of his passes even though his receivers are getting open. Further, there hasn't been a single game this season where he's completed more than 48% of his passes. His throws often times come up woefully short or long. The only third down conversion that he actually came up with using his arm was only completed because his receiver had to dive in order to get it. Otherwise, that's a duck that bounces off the ground and the Broncos are looking at 4th down.

You can say a lot of things about Tim Tebow. He's a competitor, he's a winner, he has the innate ability to put his team on his back, he's an inspiration to his team, and he's an athlete. But, right now, you simply cannot say that he's a good quarterback. Good quarterbacks complete more than 50% of their passes and don't have to have an entire offensive system tailored to his needs because the passing game with him in is anemic. Could he improve? Certainly. It would start with his mechanics.

As of right now, it's indisputable that he's a winner in this league so far. You're absolutely right about that. But a winner and a good quarterback are not the same thing. Hell, Sanchez has been a winner for the last couple of years and look how god awfully bad he is...
 
I thought the Broncos offensive line played quite poorly. That's a major reason the Broncos had 8 punts in a row - they couldn't block the Jets to open holes in the run game.

But others seem to agree with you so I'm not sure what I'm missing.

I felt that was cos every time they lined up in the I-form, it was a definite run. But in the shotgun, the pass protection was solid.
 
You are right....its a great story and he seems like a great guy. And I still think he has a ton of potential for success in the league...just NOT as a QB. To be honest I am surprised that Rex wasn't able to stop him....you would think if you play him like a slow michael vick and take3 away the run...especially outside, and FORCE him to throw the ball...he is easily beatable.....he can't throw! Let's see what BB does with him in a few weeks!

That's the biggest thing right now. Tebow can't throw.

He and his team are winning right now, but he's not going to learn how to throw before teams figure him out and he's back on the bench.

It's a great "Rudy" story and maybe in 20 years they'll make a movie called "Tebow" about a good guy who "just wanted to play football", was trashed in the media from day 1, and had to battle with faith and family while dealing with the emotions of being an NFL player.

Coaches said he had bad form, people said he couldn't throw, but his goal was to prove them all wrong! He got his start and carried his team to 6 wins in the final 11 games, narrowly missing the playoffs but giving Broncos fans a reason to celebrate once more.

It will be narrated by the Morgan Freeman of 20 years from now, they'll probably add some lies like the Broncos were on the brink of being moved to L.A. and Orton was constantly trying to sabotage his career. Then they'll briefly mention how Tebow went on to play 2 more season of pro ball, winning 10 more games (ignoring that's out of 32 possible games) before becoming a minister somewhere, where you can still see him on the Broncos sidelines prior to games on Sunday, blessing that team.

Someone is probably writing the story right now.
 
Hell, Sanchez has been a winner for the last couple of years and look how god awfully bad he is...

Being on a winning team does not make you a Winner, my friend. :nono:

Tebow indisputably makes the wins happen, however ugly his means may be.

Sanchez, on the other hand, is just along for the ride.

As to whether or not Tebow lasts...

It All In God's Hands. :D
 
Being on a winning team does not make you a Winner, my friend. :nono:

Tebow indisputably makes the wins happen, however ugly his means may be.

Sanchez, on the other hand, is just along for the ride.

As to whether or not Tebow lasts...

It All In God's Hands. :D

No, it's definitely disputable who deserves credit for the Broncos wins. About 75% of the credit deserves to go to the defense.
 
While Tebow is a winner, and a competitor, and a grinder, and a football player....he is NOT a good NFL QB.

Let's think about the job of an NFL QB. The #1 responsibility of a QB is to get to the line of scrimmage, make the correct read of the defense, and make sure the team is in the best play given (a) what the coaches called in, and (b) what audible options he has available. Guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady obviously have essentially the whole playbook available to them as options (given the personnel that's in the huddle), so their audible options are much more varied than Tebow's. Nevertheless, his first job is to make sure the team, at the line of scrimmage, is in the best possible situation.

Now, right there we are talking about a skill that has nothing to do with the physical act of throwing a ball. It's about football IQ. It's about understanding the game, being able to read a defense, and having the courage to call a specific play that you think will work. And it's about your team having the confidence in you that you are making the right call.

Some guys in the league are really, really good at that. Others aren't very good. It is, like any other skill set, something that there's probably a bell curve distribution in the league. Some guys are great, some guys suck, and a bunch of guys are in the middle.

Then, if he has called a running play, with Denver's offense he is asked to make several more reads as the play is in motion. He can hand off, he can pitch, he can keep it himself. That's the nature of the option. He is, by all accounts, really good at all these things. It's not what most NFL QB do, but it's what Denver does, to take advantage of what Tebow's strengths are, and to minimize his weaknesses. Any coach will seek to do that, wherever possible.

On passing plays, Tebow has to know where to go with the ball and deliver an accurate throw. This is his weakest aspect of QB play. And it's a big weakness, make no mistake about it. He had unbelievable completion percentages in college (he graduated as the most accurate passer in the history of the SEC), so we know he has the ability to deliver a ball to a receiver. But in the NFL, the margin for error is so much smaller that so far he hasn't shown *that* kind of accuracy. Ok, major weakness.

But suppose the pass options break down and he's forced to run. He's one of the best running QB in the league, whether on a designed run or on a scramble, so he has a superb ability to make something out of nothing.

And most importantly, perhaps, the QB is responsible for taking care of the football. Turnovers are the biggest game-changer of any measurement - that's a statistical fact. And Tebow does not turn the ball over. A 7 yard three and out followed by a 43 yard net punt is a FAR better outcome than the QB throwing a pass 12 yards and having it intercepted. It's not even close. Three and outs are not positive, but coaches can live with them. What you can't have is a QB who turns the ball over, and Tebow excels here.

And he's tough, durable, and - by all accounts...not just something I'm making up - he's a great leader. Guys believe in him. His teammates have confidence that if they just keep it close, somehow he'll find a way to win. It's obviously an intangible...cannot be quantified or measured, but game after game his teammates say things along these lines. Either they're spouting one hell of a company line or -gasp- they really believe it.

So he has one major (and it is major) weakness, but he has a significant number of strengths. So far, those strengths have outweighed that weakness and the Broncos are winning. Yes, it's a team sport so clearly he needs help from his line, his RB, and his defense. But that's true for any QB. Peyton Manning has a ring not because he played well in that 2006 postseason, but because his defense, which had been horrific all season long, magically played brilliantly in the playoffs, and carried him to the Lombardi. Tom Brady doesn't get his first ring unless Seymour stuffs Zach Crockett on 4th down and inches in the snow bowl game, or unless Vinatieri drills a 45 yarder in the snow and wind to send the game to OT, or unless Ty Law makes a pick-six against Warner.

None of this is to say that Tebow will ever amount to anything resembling a HOF quarterback or even that he'll be able to win consistently over a 3 year period. Who knows? This offense might (as I have predicted) run its course within 2 years and then Tebow becomes an afterthought. Or maybe, given some time, he becomes a more accurate passer and, with all his other strengths, becomes a bona fide star and wins a ring on a last-minute drive in the Super Bowl. It could go either way.

But to say that he's not a good NFL QB because he's inaccurate doesn't take into consideration everything that an NFL QB is tasked with doing, most of which he's pretty good at.
 
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Whoever was insisting on that was being foolish.

The Pats offense was demonstrably better under Brady than with Bledsoe.

In 2000, under Bledsoe, the Patriots were 24th in the league in yards per drive, and 25th in both points per drive and TDs/drive.

In 2001, under Brady from week 3 on, the Patriots were 9th in yards per drive, 7th in points per drive and 6th in touchdowns per drive.

Now, of course, there was more roster turnover than just Brady in the Pats offense from year to year, but still, the comparison is pretty stark -- in the bottom quarter of the league in 2000, to a top ten offense in 2001.

That's something that makes sense to credit a quarterback for.

The majority of Patriots fans on USENET and the Pats mailing list felt that way. Strange times. They wanted Bledsoe back at the helm but in decreasing #s as the playoffs arrived.
 
In another thread (the awesome Brady video thread), there's a link to the Brady video where Ray Lewis and Darrelle Revis introduce Brady as the #1 player in the NFL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUyQ_HsO4ZE). The opening minute or so is so interesting, as it pertains to the Tebow discussion. Here is what they say makes Tom Brady so great:

Lewis: "All the intangibles a quarterback's supposed to have, they (NFL teams for passing on Brady until the 6th round) overlooked with him, because it was burning from the inside of him."

Revis: "I think players voted him number one because he's a winner. He has a big heart and he doesn't like to lose. I see it twice a year, always see it in his eyes. He's a warrior."

OBVIOUSLY, Brady is a tremendous passer. But it's interesting that what Lewis and Revis single out is a whole list of things that have to do with character, guts, relentlessness, etc. Later in the video Lewis says that Brady just never, ever quits, and Revis says, geez, when is that guy going to give up?

Tim Tebow is NOT (I don't know how to emphasize this enough) Tom Brady. But everyone around him says he has the same qualities that Revis and Lewis just described with Brady. And when you are leading men (as NFL QBs do), these qualities are of huge importance.

They don't help you throw a 15 yard out pattern on the button, but they do help your team win. Somehow.
 
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No, it's definitely disputable who deserves credit for the Broncos wins. About 75% of the credit deserves to go to the defense.

It's a pretty simple formula on how the Bronks have won 4 of 5.

-Defense has played well and have kept the team in the game.
-OAK, MIA, KC are very average teams and NYJ are reeling.
-Tebow has not cost them games by making awful decisions or turning the ball over.

I don't think anyone is saying that Tebow is a good passing Qb.

I think it's possible that he is a good leader and the other guys on the roster are starting to believe that he can help them win football games. I firmly believe that besides his solid Qb play, the 2001 Pats were energized by TB's attitude and energy. The same thing is happening in Denver IMO.
 
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