Introspective Question: Is it all about the laundry?

[ivanvamp]

Let's face it: some guys are easier to root for than others. We are Patriots fans here, and so we root for the franchise to succeed. But there have been (and probably still are) some pretty bad people that have worn the Patriots' jersey. Haynesworth is a good example. Lousy person, but the moment he put on the Pats' jersey I wanted to see him tearing up the opposing backfield. Dennard, yeah, not a good guy apparently, but I wanted to see him smother opposing WRs as long as he is with the Patriots. Dillon? By most accounts I read not really a good guy, but man I loved seeing him steamroll Indianapolis on the way to a SB title.

But does this Hernandez issue change that? I know none of us knew he was a murderer type person. And I doubt many of us realized that he was just a bad guy. But if you knew that he really was a scumbag (even without the murder stuff), would you still root for him? This is really forcing me to think long and hard about my loyalty to the team in light of some of the people on the roster.

How about the rest of you? Are you still going to root for certain guys on the Patriots if they really are bad guys? If they succeed, yay, it helps the Patriots, and we all want the Patriots to win. But it also means some awful people might be getting rewarded, and I don't think too many of us want to see scumbags get rewarded.

So it's a tough situation. What do you guys think?

 

[robbomango]

Usually when someone joins the team with a bad track record I root for them to succeed on and off the field. I'll never know if the latter has happened but still hope so, it's hard to cosign a media image good or bad.

 

[BradyManny]

Yes and no. There is a limit. Let's put it this way - I'm very relieved Hernandez was released yesterday. Nobody wants to root for the guy now, obviously.

I object to calling Dennard "not a good guy." He got drunk and maybe got in a fight with a cop. The evidence was very iffy in that case, with the cop's testimony being pretty questionable. Either way, it was entirely an isolated incident. By all other accounts, he's a good kid.

Bottom line - you gotta take it case by case, and naturally, we're more lenient on our players.

 

[Rob0729]

For me, ever since the Pats added Corey Dillon it has been a mixture about the laundry and certain players. I held my nose and rooted for guys like Dillon, Moss, Haynesworth, Dennard, Talib, etc. I passionately rooted/root for Brady, Welker, Bruschi, Brown, etc.

Hernandez doesn't change anything for me.

 

[Sicilian]

While I understand the hypothetical you're trying to paint, I think there's a HUGE difference between "not being a good guy, we hear" as in Haynesworth, Dillon, Moss to an extent, etc, versus what is coming out about Hernandez. Even in the case of Dennard, where he's guilty of assault on a police officer, has a sense of stupid kid gets a little hot headed and makes a mistake. I haven't gotten the impression from anything else that Dennard is a truly bad kid.

I have no problem rooting, on the football field, for a guy who I otherwise wouldn't like in my day to day life. It's part of being in a society, you're going to have problems with some people and how they approach things. You may even think they're an insufferable a-hole, but there's enough separation between football and life to make that kind of thing ok.

In the case of Hernandez, it's not just that he (allegedly) murdered someone, it's that he apparently premeditated and planned it. This goes beyond a dumb kid making a mistake or a grown man acting like a jerk, and goes down a much darker road. Thankfully, the Patriots have removed that conflict by releasing him before we ever have to make the choice, because I know I would be HUGELY conflicted the first time AHern caught a TD pass, even if he was technically cleared in a court of law.

 

[Bruins29]

If anyone did not see the stat I posted buried in another thread. 28 NFL players have been arrested since the Superbowl. It is just part of the culture of the league. Sometimes as mentioned is a Dennard who is just in a bad situation. Money and egos and alcohol and testosterone is a really bad combo.

 

[DocHoliday]

I root for the laundry but I also root for the culture of the team and the hope that it can change a player.

When the team acquires an idiot, I root for the ideal that franchise sets and its my thought that this can change a player.

Sounds corny I know.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with your analysis.

I expected a jail sentence for Dennard, and thought that it was well deserved. HOWEVER, I was glad that we drafted him, and stood by him. He's not a bad kid, just one that got into a bar fight. We only risked a 7th and got a tremendous return.

Hernandez may have been worth the 4th, but there were many signs that he would have problems.

Yes and no. There is a limit. Let's put it this way - I'm very relieved Hernandez was released yesterday. Nobody wants to root for the guy now, obviously.

I object to calling Dennard "not a good guy." He got drunk and maybe got in a fight with a cop. The evidence was very iffy in that case, with the cop's testimony being pretty questionable. Either way, it was entirely an isolated incident. By all other accounts, he's a good kid.

Bottom line - you gotta take it case by case, and naturally, we're more lenient on our players.

 

[chasa]

I dont think anyone here thought he was a murderer type person prior to these events, and i also dont think anyone in the pats organization thought he was capable of that.

I think one of the things that make the patriots, and to an extent their fans great is its not even JUST the laundry when it comes to players, It's about the players themselves. By and large we like high character people, and while his TD celebrations were a little childish, AHern was not an external trouble maker. But soon as he made this issue it didnt matter that he was a patriot, we wanted him gone. The same thing happened to edleman albeit prematurely, where as other teams have tunnel vision when it comes to their players.

No steeler fans cared that ben probably raped a bunch of girls and got away with it. No ravens fans cared that ray lewis got away with murder. all they care about is wins. Patriots care about morals.

 

[Mack Herron]

I expected a jail sentence for Dennard, and thought that it was well deserved. HOWEVER, I was glad that we drafted him, and stood by him. He's not a bad kid, just one that got into a bar fight. We only risked a 7th and got a tremendous return.

Hernandez may have been worth the 4th, but there were many signs that he would have problems.

How do you know what kind of kid Dennard is? All I know is he was ejected from a game for punching a receiver and he was convicted of felony assault on a police officer. These are the things that caused him to drop in the draft. All Hernandez was reported to have failed drug tests by smoking pot. There was no indicator of violent behavior for Ahern like there is for Dennard. You are kidding yourself if you think you know them. This recent experience should have been a nice lesson.

 

[rjw]

If anyone did not see the stat I posted buried in another thread. 28 NFL players have been arrested since the Superbowl.It is just part of the culture of the league. Sometimes as mentioned is a Dennard who is just in a bad situation. Money and egos and alcohol and testosterone is a really bad combo.

That's a sad truth these days. It seems to happen too often, it's become almost expected.

 

[Dr Pain]

You have to look at a guy like Bernie Pollard. You can hate him on the field but he is really seems like a good intelligent guy whenever I hear him speak. As a Patriot I would like him, as a person I get the sense I would like him, I just don't like the way he plays on other teams.

I try and not get too wrapped up in this aspect of the game. I enjoy the Patriots and am a fan but I remember every dime goes into Bob's pocket not mine.

When you get a group of people together, some will be good and some will be bad regardless of the uniform.

 

[goheels22002]

The laundry thing is too simplistic. There are players on teams I did not like from the get go. Albert Haynesworth was one of those guys. He was a mistake to bring in and never adapted at all to what turned out to be his next to last chance. Ochocinco was too much of a clown for this situation.

There were guys I thought that were great on the Patriots but couldn't cut it as a player. Alge Crumpler comes to mind. A UNC guy who was good in the club house, tutored Gronk and Hernandez, but couldn't cut it at his age (and dropped the damn ball in the end zone). I was glad he had some time here. Same with Junior Seau.

Hernandez has been great as a Patriot on the field and seemed like a kid who found a situation to help him mature. I was a huge fan of his. Now, not so much. I have mixed emotions that run from outrage and anger at what he's done to the victim and the legacy of the Patriots, to sorrow that he threw it all away and will live out his days in misery and danger. We were all wrong about this guy.

It's a drag, but life happens. Every family and gathering of co-workers has people you can love and admire who make poor choices. Do you stop caring for them because of a big mistake? Sometimes you do. It does not mean that your earlier affection for them was wrong or not authentic.

It means things changed. That is life.

If they are your kids, you hate the act or the addiction, but you still love the person. It's part of the attachment we make in life.

Disappointment sucks.

 

[lurker1965]

Yes.

Frankly, I lost a little respect for you not knowing that.

BTW, you know he was cut, right? He's not the Patriot's Ray Lewis, so you can get off the high horse.

 

[fluoropolymer]

I would like Ian to move (and preferably bury) all these Hernandez discussions to the non-football thread section of the website. The guy is no longer a New England Patriot. He is no longer a professional football player. The sooner he is gone from our collective conscious, the better.

Let's get back to discussing how BB & Josh are going to build the team and offense this year.

 

[Joker]

I would like Ian to move (and preferably bury) all these Hernandez discussions to the non-football thread section of the website. The guy is no longer a New England Patriot. He is no longer a professional football player. The sooner he is gone from our collective conscious, the better.

Let's get back to discussing how BB & Josh are going to build the team and offense this year.

that's a pretty stick-free post coming from the board member with the biggest Teflon reputation...

 

[Raven007]

Yes.

Frankly, I lost a little respect for you not knowing that.

BTW, you know he was cut, right? He's not the Patriot's Ray Lewis, so you can get off the high horse.

He will always be a patriot.

They knew this kid was questionable coming out of college. ( unlike Lewis )

They gambled and lost.

LMAO this more than holy "We cut him and he is not a part of the team" crap is just that.

The comparison to Lewis is an Apple to an Orange. Try Ray Carruth That is more like A Half Apple to Apple.

Rae Carruth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahern is on a whole new level. Like it or NOT he will always BE SEEN AS A PATRIOT. More you bring up Ray Lewis, the more AHERN will be ever etched into the PATS name.

 

[Reckedtrek]

I watch football for entertainment. The players with very few exceptions are not role models to me. None of them are true heroes.

True heroes wear fatigues. True hero wear police and firefighter outfits. When I hear football players... any athlete refer to another athlete as a "warrior" it bothers me a little. I know they don't mean it as an insult, but most of these guys don't know the true meaning of the term warrior.

Ted Williams was before my time, but he played pro baseball AND took time away from the game to fight in two wars. Close to the end he continued to help the Jimmy Fund. I saw him at the Dana Farber, quietly waiting for the filming to start for there next promo. My father almost passed out when he saw him and said hello!

Anyone see Adrian Peterson, Aaron Rodgers or JJ Watt doing that any time soon? Any of the Patriots doing that? Athletes aren't heros, they're entertainers. I don't look to entertainers as role models, no matter what laundry they're wearing at the time.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Sure. it's in part about the laundry, always has been, always will be. Fandom is at its root not logical. It's an emotion based thing. Yet we Patriot fans are pretty lucky. The team we follow-root for is the better example of what an NFL team should be. Chad 'Ocho Cinco' Johnson is a good example. Many will think bringing him aboard says something negative about the Patriots, the Patriot Way is lost (or proves it never was). Actually it says something good about the Patriots and proves the actual Patriot Way (and why we continually win most of the time). This was a shining example of a 'me player', someone whose own personal glory/whim on and off the field trumped all. This shining example of trouble comes to the Patriots and becomes what? Much closer to a model NFL citizen and FAR from what he was before. Lots of other examples. For Haynesworth? He wasn't in trouble off the field but didn't buy into the on field Patriot Way. Bye.

Ahhh but there is AH. THAT! proves it. The Patriot Way is a crock or is/has been dead! We took a guy who was from the wrong crowd, the wrong neighborhood, and had red flags that said he wasn't always a law and order guy. And now he appears to be a gangland murderer. Fyi, for all those who don't know, it has been quietly reported in the past about BB visiting prisons. I'll bet the mortgage payment that he wasn't there to get tips on breaking down film or the benefits of the 3-4. I'll bet he was there to try and gain better insight into the mind/motivation of players that come out of the toughest, roughest neighborhoods in America. The type of guys that may be playing for the Patriots one day. Trying to gain knowledge on these young men who could very easily go from one step in the NFL to two steps into years of prison.

Every NFL team is chance for a few kids coming out of the worst neighborhoods in America to have a different life than what they grew up around and were, likely, part of to some varying degree. They could end up in prison if not for a chance in the NFL. The Patriots should be that chance but also should be an environment to make that chance be successful. And the Patriots are both! Few other NFL teams are the chance and the environment. Many are (or were) "here's the dough, just keep makin those catches/tackles! You do whatever you want otherwise!'. I'll gladly root for guys who were from the wrong place but then come to the Patriots, play hard, play team, grow up, don't repeat the worst mistakes. They don't have to be perfect, just keep it clean to an acceptable degree and keep it headed in the right direction.

Fyi, for those who believed that the Patriots were nothing but the highest character, only full law abiding, never in trouble team, guess what? You were duped by those at the Ron Borges Society. Those hacks that also can't wait to tear down the Patriots by any means, true or not. Now their Monday Morning Quarterbacking clearly shows the Patriots are the bad guys. They should have known! Clear as a bell the red flags that say AH was rotten to the corps. And the Patriots should be more like the stellar, crystal clean organization like the Colts. Take a moment to think about who is telling that story and what their track record says.

AH didn't change despite having one of the most optimum environments to succeed. Imagine if he had been taken by a lot of other teams?? AH just never outgrew the guy looking to be the bad@$$ hero of heroes in the gang area of the neighborhood where doing the wrongest of the wrong gets you that title. But, again, the Patriots provided one of his best chances to change that. It didn't work this time, it will with others most of the time. But yes, BB was wrong/failed with AH and BK was wrong about AH. Hey, next time you run into someone who is never wrong, get their autograph. You'll want a memento to remember meeting the greatest person to ever live.....

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I watch football for entertainment. The players with very few exceptions are not role models to me. None of them are true heroes.

True heroes wear fatigues. True hero wear police and firefighter outfits. When I hear football players... any athlete refer to another athlete as a "warrior" it bothers me a little. I know they don't mean it as an insult, but most of these guys don't know the true meaning of the term warrior.

Ted Williams was before my time, but he played pro baseball AND took time away from the game to fight in two wars. Close to the end he continued to help the Jimmy Fund. I saw him at the Dana Farber, quietly waiting for the filming to start for there next promo. My father almost passed out when he saw him and said hello!

Anyone see Adrian Peterson, Aaron Rodgers or JJ Watt doing that any time soon? Any of the Patriots doing that? Athletes aren't heros, they're entertainers. I don't look to entertainers as role models, no matter what laundry they're wearing at the time.

I largely agree. The one thing I would add is it is nice to see someone from the wrong side of the tracks bring their lives together and it is the Patriots that had a hand in it. A hero? No. Something to feel good about? Sure.


Btw, Pat Tillman deserves a mention....