Interesting Seymour comment

[captain insano]

drafting a rb high in the 1st round is a waste of a pick. i for one hope they dont make that mistake.

 

[RayClay]

They acquired a lethargic, overrated defensive lineman in exchange what projects to be a top 10 pick in the 2011 NFL Draft.

That's why those once a year geniuses should stick to making picks and arguing after that they know better than the teams who they should pick.

I'm betting that guy is comparing him to 4-3 DEs and wondering why he doesn't have 10 sacks a year.

I'm fine with planning for the future, but this 3-4 defense would love having that overrated son of a ***** back if all things were equal.

They're not. Thanks to our F.O., that's the only way we'll ever get a top #1, but that writer is a clown, plain and simple..

 

[RayClay]

Yeah, too high for a downhill RB.

The pick will go for a 3-4 DE, if there is one.

 

[dhamz]

I like Ingram and think he'll be a good NFL player although probably not on the Chris Johnson/Peterson level.

I just don't see how this team looks at its needs not just for 2011 but also 2012 and beyond and picks a RB with the highest pick they are likely to have in the next few years. Add in that RBs tend to have a short shelf life and that nearly every NFL team sees it as a platoon position and Ingram would surprise me. RB isn't a value spot in the top half of round 1 of the draft.

I'd expect the trenches to be the focus of the 2011 draft. You need to be good up front to win, it is the one constant in the NFL. The offensive line is going to lose 4 guys who have been fixtures on it in the next year or two (Mankins, Neal, Koppen, Light). The front 7 has holes at OLB and at least 1 and arguably both DE spots depending on how Warren who will be 30 comes back from missing a full year with injury. Even if he comes back 100%, he's probably not a long term answer with his age.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I like Ingram and think he'll be a good NFL player although probably not on the Chris Johnson/Peterson level.

I just don't see how this team looks at its needs not just for 2011 but also 2012 and beyond and picks a RB with the highest pick they are likely to have in the next few years. Add in that RBs tend to have a short shelf life and that nearly every NFL team sees it as a platoon position and Ingram would surprise me. RB isn't a value spot in the top half of round 1 of the draft.

I'd expect the trenches to be the focus of the 2011 draft. You need to be good up front to win, it is the one constant in the NFL. The offensive line is going to lose 4 guys who have been fixtures on it in the next year or two (Mankins, Neal, Koppen, Light). The front 7 has holes at OLB and at least 1 and arguably both DE spots depending on how Warren who will be 30 comes back from missing a full year with injury. Even if he comes back 100%, he's probably not a long term answer with his age.

Couldn't have said it better...

 

[goheels22002]

Since a lot of you Bostonian yanks don't appear to appreciate good, physical, southern style SEC college football (either that or you're living under a rock, don't know what the hell you're missing, and just don't watch college football), let me give you Ingram's 2009 Heisman highlight video...

YouTube - Mark Ingram(#22)- Official 2009 Heisman Highlights

The SEC sucks.

 

[Kontradiction]

The SEC sucks.

I assume this is a joke. Best conference in college football. Now, if you're talking basketball, then yeah. They do kind of suck when compared to the ACC.

 

[goheels22002]

I assume this is a joke. Best conference in college football. Now, if you're talking basketball, then yeah. They do kind of suck when compared to the ACC.

Just pointing out that some of us have solid southern major college sports roots here in Patriots Nation. And that along with Duke and the Jets, the SEC sucks.

 

[Kontradiction]

Just pointing out that some of us have solid southern major college sports roots here in Patriots Nation. And that along with Duke and the Jets, the SEC sucks.

Fair enough. Can't say I feel the same about ACC, though. Outside of FSU (who I despise), I don't really have a problem with the ACC.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Walterfootball is a crappy site.

I know.

They didn't even mention the Magic Beans that Al Davis insisted he receive as part of the trade.

They make it sound so one sided.

 

[goheels22002]

Fair enough. Can't say I feel the same about ACC, though. Outside of FSU (who I despise), I don't really have a problem with the ACC.

I must admit that the SEC sucks less with Lane Kiffin out of Tennessee and adding further humiliation to the other USC. What a fraudulent scumball. Gotta love the real USC (ACC founding member) putting the wood to Alabama last week.

On this thread, though, I'd bet a year's wages that Belichick trades the Oakland pick, or if he uses it, he takes an offensive or defensive lineman. It's fool's gold to use a top ten pick on an RB who will only give you 3 to 4 years on average. The other possibility is looking for Brady's understudy.

Whatever, many thanks to Al Davis for being a moron and all the best to Richard Seymour in Oakland where he is a major reason why the Raiders are a longshot to win the very weird AFC West.

 

[AzPatsFan]

That's why those once a year geniuses should stick to making picks and arguing after that they know better than the teams who they should pick.

I'm betting that guy is comparing him to 4-3 DEs and wondering why he doesn't have 10 sacks a year.

I'm fine with planning for the future, but this 3-4 defense would love having that overrated son of a ***** back if all things were equal.

They're not. Thanks to our F.O., that's the only way we'll ever get a top #1, but that writer is a clown, plain and simple..

BB is a realist. When he considered who he had to resign in 2010 and 2011, he knew that there was not enough money to pay everyone. He had to resign Brady, and Seymour, and Wilfork, and Mankins, and Gostkowski, and Neal and Warren and Moss, and Welker, and Light and Kaczur.

The money just wouldn't stretch that far, so he prioritized. I need to resign the HOF QB, Tom Brady. I need Wilfork to make the 3-4 go. I need a leader for my next generation Offensive line, even though its fine now. I need to find money for HOF Moss. And there are a gaggle of People that I need on the team like extensions for Gostkowski, Neal, Warren, Wright, Kaczur Light etc.

The biggest salary next to Brady is Seymour, so if I let him go, I save the most money. BB got potentially a Top Ten Pick in either 2010 or 2011, and he chose 2011 when a rookie cap might be in place.

He allocated money for Mankins and Moss. But Mankins wouldn't resign, and Moss lost his separation afterburner acceleration, and was traded for what he could get.

So there is a pot of uncommitted money available. Seymour is franchised in Oakland, and a UFA in 2011. He is 2 years older and hopefully, can be resigned at smaller money to provide the veteran leadership for the Defensive line, while the youngsters mature.

Richard Seymour fits this 3-4, 2-gap Defense to a "T". He stops the run, freeing the ROLB to pass rush, and contributes inside pass rush, collapsing the pocket. While two-gapping, he has proved he can add 6-10 sacks a year, from the most difficult area to get sacks.

I predict that Seymour will be offered an opportunity to resign with Pats, with the now available, pot of money.

Then he will draft the the big DE/OLB candidate, like Quinn, with the Seymour rental pick, and a future Seymour replacement, like Dareus, a little later. That will complete the defensive re-building.

You heard it here, first.

Then BB will turn his attention onto re-tooling the Offense, where a good start has alredy been made, with Volmer, Tate, Gronk, Hernadez, Welker, and perhaps others.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

BB is a realist. When he considered who he had to resign in 2010 and 2011, he knew that there was not enough money to pay everyone. He had to resign Brady, and Seymour, and Wilfork, and Mankins, and Gostkowski, and Neal and Warren and Moss, and Welker, and Light and Kaczur.

The money just wouldn't stretch that far, so he prioritized. I need to resign the HOF QB, Tom Brady. I need Wilfork to make the 3-4 go. I need a leader for my next generation Offensive line, even though its fine now. I need to find money for HOF Moss. And there are a gaggle of People that I need on the team like extensions for Gostkowski, Neal, Warren, Wright, Kaczur Light etc.

The biggest salary next to Brady is Seymour, so if I let him go, I save the most money. BB got potentially a Top Ten Pick in either 2010 or 2011, and he chose 2011 when a rookie cap might be in place.

He allocated money for Mankins and Moss. But Mankins wouldn't resign, and Moss lost his separation afterburner acceleration, and was traded for what he could get.

So there is a pot of uncommitted money available. Seymour is franchised in Oakland, and a UFA in 2011. He is 2 years older and hopefully, can be resigned at smaller money to provide the veteran leadership for the Defensive line, while the youngsters mature.

Richard Seymour fits this 3-4, 2-gap Defense to a "T". He stops the run, freeing the ROLB to pass rush, and contributes inside pass rush, collapsing the pocket. While two-gapping, he has proved he can add 6-10 sacks a year, from the most difficult area to get sacks.

I predict that Seymour will be offered an opportunity to resign with Pats, with the now available, pot of money.

Then he will draft the the big DE/OLB candidate, like Quinn, with the Seymour rental pick, and a future Seymour replacement, like Dareus, a little later. That will complete the defensive re-building.

You heard it here, first.

Then BB will turn his attention onto re-tooling the Offense, where a good start has alredy been made, with Volmer, Tate, Gronk, Hernadez, Welker, and perhaps others.

They were never going to re-sign Seymour and the reasons went beyond his cost and even age. It was performance and attitude related. There is no pot of money. Welker will be extended as will guys like Light and Koppen at reasonable short term rates as the lines continue to be retooled and before you know it it will be time to start extending the next generation of defensive leaders into their primes. If anything I see Warren departing after 2011. Bill has this way of detatching from players he feels didn't provide value sufficient to their second contract irrespective of the circumstances.

He never brought back Milloy despite the need for safety help beyond Rodney, although he tried on multiple occasions to bring back even a post injury aging Law. Law he felt always delivered on the field at least relative to what it took to keep him there (the $6M per that he averaged over 2005-2008 which was exactly what we'd offered him). Deion is back for not much less than about what we wanted him for all along - an average of $5.5M per (albeit now requiring he reach incentives). They never questioned his ongoing contribution or value, even in light of durability concerns. They simply weren't willing to overpay him based on market perception. Others, not so much. They weren't happy paying Seymour $10M per over the last couple of seasons, let alone that if not the more he was going to "command" because of perception going forward.

Brady is the only one here who has truly always gotten the message that if you want the big bucks and if you want to remain they are there providing you prove you can and will deliver the kind of performance that warrants it. Not that your ego simply commands/demands it. The Seymour double team mantra had become kinda like the Moss double coverage mantra. More popular myth than present reality. Bill challenges himself and his staff after each season to fact check perception vs. reality and often that leads to internal debunking of what has become external myths...

It apparently never got personal with Deion and Bill (or anyone else). In cases like Seymour and Milloy it did, and of course there is Mankins and Kraft. Those guys don't tend to come back like they were just on a mutual financial sabatical from each other...

 

[RayClay]

I think the only way to replace Seymour would be the pick we could only get by trading Seymour, simple as that. It's a calculated risk that Seymour's best years wer behind him and they weren't without injury.

If there was an attitude problem, it didn't translate on the field, and BB doesn't keep people around because he likes them, so that point is moot IMO.

To Mo's point, Lawyer Milloy was toast and he wasn't unhappy to have Rodney take over regardless of contract. Plus Milloy was always a pain in the ass, so leadership wise it was gravy.

 

[TheComeback]

They were never going to re-sign Seymour and the reasons went beyond his cost and even age. It was performance and attitude related. There is no pot of money. Welker will be extended as will guys like Light and Koppen at reasonable short term rates as the lines continue to be retooled and before you know it it will be time to start extending the next generation of defensive leaders into their primes. If anything I see Warren departing after 2011. Bill has this way of detatching from players he feels didn't provide value sufficient to their second contract irrespective of the circumstances.

He never brought back Milloy despite the need for safety help beyond Rodney, although he tried on multiple occasions to bring back even a post injury aging Law. Law he felt always delivered on the field at least relative to what it took to keep him there (the $6M per that he averaged over 2005-2008 which was exactly what we'd offered him). Deion is back for not much less than about what we wanted him for all along - an average of $5.5M per (albeit now requiring he reach incentives). They never questioned his ongoing contribution or value, even in light of durability concerns. They simply weren't willing to overpay him based on market perception. Others, not so much. They weren't happy paying Seymour $10M per over the last couple of seasons, let alone that if not the more he was going to "command" because of perception going forward.

Brady is the only one here who has truly always gotten the message that if you want the big bucks and if you want to remain they are there providing you prove you can and will deliver the kind of performance that warrants it. Not that your ego simply commands/demands it. The Seymour double team mantra had become kinda like the Moss double coverage mantra. More popular myth than present reality. Bill challenges himself and his staff after each season to fact check perception vs. reality and often that leads to internal debunking of what has become external myths...

It apparently never got personal with Deion and Bill (or anyone else). In cases like Seymour and Milloy it did, and of course there is Mankins and Kraft. Those guys don't tend to come back like they were just on a mutual financial sabatical from each other...

Nice post Mo, lots of insight there. I agree with the point about Seymour's attitude, but as far as performance I still believe that he was an excellent lineman for us all the way up until he left. He was starting to decline a little bit, but I think he could've helped us for a couple more years. I'm still glad we go the 1st rounder for him though. I don't see any way that he would've been more helpful than that draft pick is going to be.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

What do you think of Bilal Powell of Louisville? He runs angry. Tonight he is killing Cincinnati.

I just got a look at that run he ripped off against cincy and wow this kid does run angry and with purpose. He seems a little more speedy than ingram as well. His body of work may not be as impresssive tho, I also see he is a senior.

I'd be interested in his draft projections thus far, albeit still early in the season.

 

[chicowalker]

This is only somewhat related, but I've seen Alabama play quite a bit, and I'm not sure Ingram is better than Richardson. He has certainly accomplished more, and they're different years, but just thought I'd mention the opinion.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

This is only somewhat related, but I've seen Alabama play quite a bit, and I'm not sure Ingram is better than Richardson. He has certainly accomplished more, and they're different years, but just thought I'd mention the opinion.

who is richardson?

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

If the rookie salary cap is put in place, maybe BB trades UP as you can now get good "Value" on the high picks- get a true DL stud at 40% of what it cost last year. To go a little further, with the number of picks, the Pats *could* get 3 or possibly 4 first round picks (and not picks 29-32)... each at what a second rounder cost last year.

YES! Good call Reckedtrek. 2011 is the year the Patriots could trade up. With a plethora (whatever that means) of picks and rookie cap the Patriots could go hard after the one gigantic need; a pass rushing DE/LB. After that it is play time and BB could move down and up as the need arose but the next draft could see some upward movement....hopefully they are more successful moving up than in years past (wasn't Hanging Chad Jackson and Ben Watson upward picks?)

 

[chicowalker]

who is richardson?

Sorry -- Trent Richardson, Alabama's sophomore back