Another Damning Concussion Study (I wish this was a joke)

[IllegalContact]

Right. What the NFL could do is come up with a "Hit Meter" to graphically show how hard the collision was.

I'm sure the bloodthirsty ignorant would love it.

Identification and treatment is the best you can hope for

 

[IllegalContact]

To me this is all a tackling technique issue, the way some of the players just throw their heads into a tackle, it's no wonder concussions have been so prevalent. They have to be taught to play the game like they aren't wearing a helmet, head to the side and tackle with your shoulder and arms. Obviously concussions will still happen, but I think the risks would become much more tolerable. It would be a real shame to see such a great game slowly wither away.

A huge number of concussions have nothing to do with tackling.....offensive linemen get them as much as anyone

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

I truly believe there is a connection between head blows and ALS. My brother, though not a football player, had a lot of hard hits to his head. They were mostly just accidental incidents. But the one we think attributed the most, was a fall he had, down a flight of stairs when he was younger. He passed away from ALS, and I can definitely see how these players are having these health issues

 

[lufc]

Rugby players get lots of concussions too

Of course they do, there is no silver bullett here. If the nfl wants to avoid becoming the equivalent of boxing in parents thinking though, they have to show they are aware of the issue and will do everything in their power to make it as safe as possible. I believe tackling is the one big area where progress can be made. Even here in england, doctors are now starting to say children shouldn't play rugby, it isn't getting the play that it does in america but that is probably only a matter of time.

 

[IllegalContact]

Of course they do, there is no silver bullett here. If the nfl wants to avoid becoming the equivalent of boxing in parents thinking though, they have to show they are aware of the issue and will do everything in their power to make it as safe as possible. I believe tackling is the one big area where progress can be made. Even here in england, doctors are now starting to say children shouldn't play rugby, it isn't getting the play that it does in america but that is probably only a matter of time.

I don't think football has changed much....the understanding of the injuries has, but for anyone to be surprised is a little silly

 

[1960Pats]

I'm almost tired of all these concussion studies. Honestly. I think at this point we know what the concussions do and the prevalence of them.

The question now is: What do we do? Outside of rules that will water down the sport even more, and the best of the best helmets and pads?

Easy enough. For pros a waiver. You make millions, (and make a post season league paid bonus for the part time players aka special teamers who sign for cheap money usually), so the waiver shouldn't be a big deal. If you love the sport, you sign the waiver.

For youth sports I'm not sure. Part of me thinks people need to make it as safe as possible and let things go. You only live once and I'm not walking around people who are complete vegetables because they played youth ball. That's with even less focus (none really) on CTE and such.

In the end sporting is about risk. That's part of the thrill of playing it and for those of us that watch it. I mean think about it. Auto racing fans (of every form) over the years have actually seen people die. Numerous times. It's all a risk.

Knowing the risk and denying that there is a risk is what separates the NYJFL from the other sports. As late as a week ago, multiple owners (including Bob Kraft) were denying that concussions were a problem in the NYJFL

 

[1960Pats]

People also bang their heads off the ground.

This is one problem that seems to get less play. The harder playing surfaces of the NYJFL are a major cause of many concussions.

 

[PatsFan37]

I'm not a scientist and I'm the wrong kind of engineer, but I suspect while good people can improve brain protection, they'll never stop concussions when big fast men collide in the open field.

That doesn't mean they can't mitigate the effects and they'll need research and data to do so. IllegalContact has a point in saying that the measurements will always be imperfect and often be misleading. Neuronet has an equally valid point in saying (if I may broadly overinterpret) that getting a large volume of data over time allows us to draw conclusions in the aggregate even as individual measurements are suspect.

What we don't know now is where the research will lead. Diagnostics may not be revelatory for dozens of years until there are symptoms or even autopsies; that's when we'll need the retrospective data. We can ignore flawed data if we want, but we can't reach back in time and get what we didn't record.

And when they start making changes, probably first at the high-school & college level, to helmets, artificial turf, training & coaching, rules and other factors, the measurements will help them analyze the effects even over short periods of a year or two.

Which is why I'm hugely disappointed that the NFL stopped helmet sensors. But not surprised. They are tobacco.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

This is one problem that seems to get less play. The harder playing surfaces of the NYJFL are a major cause of many concussions.

Are they harder? I'm not sure if that's the case. They are not using AstroTurf anymore.

 

[IllegalContact]

I'm not a scientist and I'm the wrong kind of engineer, but I suspect while good people can improve brain protection, they'll never stop concussions when big fast men collide in the open field.

That doesn't mean they can't mitigate the effects and they'll need research and data to do so. IllegalContact has a point in saying that the measurements will always be imperfect and often be misleading. Neuronet has an equally valid point in saying (if I may broadly overinterpret) that getting a large volume of data over time allows us to draw conclusions in the aggregate even as individual measurements are suspect.

What we don't know now is where the research will lead. Diagnostics may not be revelatory for dozens of years until there are symptoms or even autopsies; that's when we'll need the retrospective data. We can ignore flawed data if we want, but we can't reach back in time and get what we didn't record.

And when they start making changes, probably first at the high-school & college level, to helmets, artificial turf, training & coaching, rules and other factors, the measurements will help them analyze the effects even over short periods of a year or two.

Which is why I'm hugely disappointed that the NFL stopped helmet sensors. But not surprised. They are tobacco.

The ideas were all valid

Neuronets fallacy about scientist vs engineer was the most stupid part of the convo

Just another instance of someone assuming of their superior intellect....place is festering with this type of fungus

 

[zydecochris]

I truly believe there is a connection between head blows and ALS. My brother, though not a football player, had a lot of hard hits to his head. They were mostly just accidental incidents. But the one we think attributed the most, was a fall he had, down a flight of stairs when he was younger. He passed away from ALS, and I can definitely see how these players are having these health issues

I don't know how long ago the happened, but that sounds terrible, my thoughts and prayers go out to you.

 

[Tony2046]

Identification and treatment is the best you can hope for

I am replying to this post but have read your others.

I particularly enjoyed your taste bud analogy.

The only thing I would add is that having the impact measured and recorded for each player could be used to set up new concussion protocols which would not eliminate concussions but might reduce the long term damage or at least let the player know how much "total impact" he has accumulated.

I would imagine that if the impact testing continued that eventually those results could be coupled with a CTE test ,which has not yet been developed, to give the player a detailed picture of the total accumulated damage he has endured which might allow them to avoid some of the more serious CTE related consequences in their future.

Food for thought.



.

 

[IllegalContact]

I am replying to this post but have read your others.

I particularly enjoyed your taste bud analogy.

The only thing I would add is that having the impact measured and recorded for each player could be used to set up new concussion protocols which would not eliminate concussions but might reduce the long term damage or at least let the player know how much "total impact" he has accumulated.

I would imagine that if the impact testing continued that eventually those results could be coupled with a CTE test ,which has not yet been developed, to give the player a detailed picture of the total accumulated damage he has endured which might allow them to avoid some of the more serious CTE related consequences in their future.

Food for thought.

Well that goes back to my comment to 'identification and treatment' and by treatment I mean both short term and long term post retirement whose cost needs to be shared by both team and players.

Prevention without major changes to play or equipment will be minimal at best

 

[Tunescribe]

Prevention without major changes to play or equipment will be minimal at best

Way too premature a conclusion. (Check out my post No. 31.)

 

[1960Pats]

Are they harder? I'm not sure if that's the case. They are not using AstroTurf anymore.

I'm pretty sure the newer surfaces are harder than natural grass (the comparison that I was making) at least in the warmer climates.

 

[IllegalContact]

Way too premature a conclusion. (Check out my post No. 31.)

I believe that device won't change anything .

 

[Tunescribe]

I believe that device won't change anything .

Why? Did you read the article?

 

[IllegalContact]

Why? Did you read the article?

yes, I read the article

other than intuition, no reason.........I don't have a problem being wrong on this, I just don't believe it will make a difference

 

[Tony2046]

yes, I read the article

other than intuition, no reason.........I don't have a problem being wrong on this, I just don't believe it will make a difference

I don't think you're wrong as far as eliminating concussions altogether. Impact is impact and they are not going to get rid of concussions without removing the collisions from the game. Improve? sure. Eliminate? No way.

However, I do think we are at the apex of the concussion issue in that we are seeing the results of players who played longer than they should have, without concussion awareness and without protocols.

I think we will see a CTE scanning process in the future which will tell the player how much brain damage they have endured and allow them to make a more informative decision (if not mandated) as to whether they should stop playing or not.

On a side note I believe that any current NFL records which require longevity to acquire may be as good as cemented in the books. I don't think we will see too many 20 year NFL careers in the future.

 

[zydecochris]

I don't think you're wrong as far as eliminating concussions altogether. Impact is impact and they are not going to get rid of concussions without removing the collisions from the game. Improve? sure. Eliminate? No way.

However, I do think we are at the apex of the concussion issue in that we are seeing the results of players who played longer than they should have, without concussion awareness and without protocols.

I think we will see a CTE scanning process in the future which will tell the player how much brain damage they have endured and allow them to make a more informative decision (if not mandated) as to whether they should stop playing or not.

On a side note I believe that any current NFL records which require longevity to acquire may be as good as cemented in the books. I don't think we will see too many 20 year NFL careers in the future.

Perhaps it won't be too many years until that type of CTE scanning test is available.

Accurate CTE test for living patients could be coming within a decade