The Tight End Dilemma

manxman2601 · Sunday at 6:23 AM

Here is the current list of Tight Ends we've had contact with. The usual 'that we know of' caveat applies.

TE/FB

Dan Villari, Syracuse - ASx2
Nate Boerkircher, TAMU - COM
Eli Raridon, ND - AS
Jed Castles, Abilene Christian - PD
Oscar Delp, Georgia - INT, 30
John Michael Gyllenborg, Wyoming - AS
DJ Rogers, TCU - AS

As Bakes points out, that's a very short list.

bakes781 said:
I'm kind of surprised there's not more TEs on this list.

So what's going on in this very deep TE pool that both Wolf and Vrabel have hinted we'll be drafting from? Why aren't we showing a more varied interest? Some answers spring to mind.

1. There's more than one on the list we like fairly equally, Delp-Raridon-Boerkircher for example, and they're comfortable seeing who falls, presumably to the fourth round.

2. They plan to take a TE a lot earlier than expected (pick 63?) and either don't want to show their hand or feel comfortable the TE they are targeting will be available at that spot. Klare, Delp, Roush probably fall into this category.

3. There's a TE they really like who doesn't need medical re-checks, whom they have good character intel on so doesn't need a visit etc. For me, this would likely be Will Kacmarek. Vrabel probably has all the info he needs on him with the Ohio State connection.

So what do you think is going on?

mayoclinic · Sunday at 6:28 AM

They do not need contacts to have interest in a player. Example: TreVeyon Henderson.

I am fairly confident the Pats have a good handle on this very deep TE class.

manxman2601 · Sunday at 6:54 AM

mayoclinic said:
They do not need contacts to have interest in a player. Example: TreVeyon Henderson.

I am fairly confident the Pats have a good handle on this very deep TE class.

And picking a 2nd round RB was pretty unexpected.

The only positions that have less contacts are QB and RB so why are they almost uniquely uninterested in TEs in a year where that's one position we feel they're almost guaranteed to draft? Do they not have a good handle on all the other positions? Because it's such a deep class, you would think they'd be more likely to want to do due diligence on it unless they had specific targets in mind.

zimmy · Sunday at 8:09 AM

With all our more immediate needs, feels like TE is a Day 3 developmental type pick. I don’t know exactly where these guys are slated to go but I like Raridon from ND on day 3

DaBruinz · Sunday at 9:59 AM

manxman2601 said:
And picking a 2nd round RB was pretty unexpected.

The only positions that have less contacts are QB and RB so why are they almost uniquely uninterested in TEs in a year where that's one position we feel they're almost guaranteed to draft? Do they not have a good handle on all the other positions? Because it's such a deep class, you would think they'd be more likely to want to do due diligence on it unless they had specific targets in mind.

How much did we hear of Vrabel's trips back to Ohio State? I'm fairly certain that he visits regularly. He did so during his days as a coach with Houston. I'd put money he continued it. This is part of why I think that Kacmarek or Klare will be one of the Pats draft picks.

It will be interesting to see if the Pats lean on Vrabel's friendship with Fickell and take someone from Wisconsin.

mayoclinic · Sunday at 10:01 AM

I thought Vrabel's Ohio St. connections would give him the inside track on Josh Simmons last year.

DaBruinz · Sunday at 10:04 AM

mayoclinic said:
I thought Vrabel's Ohio St. connections would give him the inside track on Josh Simmons last year.

Maybe it did.. Which is why he went with Campbell and then surprised everyone with Henderson.

mayoclinic · Sunday at 10:05 AM

I almost added that!

manxman2601 · Sunday at 10:10 AM

DaBruinz said:
Maybe it did.. Which is why he went with Campbell and then surprised everyone with Henderson.

There were question marks about Simmons’ maturity.

One-If-By-Sea · Sunday at 12:22 PM

manxman2601 said:
There were question marks about Simmons’ maturity.

Yup, not a Vrabel guy.

Water Boy · Sunday at 12:27 PM

When I read the title of this thread I thought it was about Dianna Russini.

Water Boy · Sunday at 12:31 PM

Assuming there's a partner, if we can trade back a bit from the first to the top of the second we can have 4 picks in the top 100. In that scenario I I'd be willing to take Delp at 63.

scott99 · Sunday at 3:55 PM

I think two TEs will go in the 1st round. I think Sadiq and Stowers go in the 1st round. Then I believe there will be a run on the other top TEs in the 2nd round. So if the Pats wait until #95 in the 3rd round, they will have a choice of someone decent at TE. Maybe not a huge 1st year difference maker, but someone you can mold into a Henry type TE.

scott99 · Sunday at 3:57 PM

Water Boy said:
Assuming there's a partner, if we can trade back a bit from the first to the top of the second we can have 4 picks in the top 100. In that scenario I I'd be willing to take Delp at 63.

The Pats have 11 picks, they don’t need more picks, they need to hit on the picks they do have. If anything, this is the year to trade UP.

OldEngland · Sunday at 10:48 PM

The TE room is average rather than spectular, but there is depth, a new TE2 FA, and developmental prospects from last year, and multiple FBs. It's not guaranteed a 5th or lower pick makes the roster. And when I look at the depth for OT, OG, DE, ILB, OLB, CB and S, they concern me far more than the TE room.

For me any pick has to be good enough to be the eventual TE1 replacement for Henry, and/or be an upgrade on CJ Dippre (who I would really like to see what he can do). The signing of Julian Hill for 3/18 means he is TE2, and he supposed to be more of a blocker with no seasons above 140y recieving in the nfl. CJ Dippre is a bit of a binky. Inline TE with mean strength, but his RAS of 8.7 hinted at more receiving potential, and he had almost 800y recieving on college, which is more than several prospects this year including Raridon and Kacmerak for example. Then you have FB, which likely replaces the TE4 roster spot. Pats signed Reggie Gilliam signed for 3/12m, and have Brock Lampe and Jack Westover as well who could get camp reps at TE (and had 800+ yard receiving in college). .

All the signings this year indicate improving the run game, and Hill and Dippre may do that. Personally I think any draft pick has to be a good receiving TE, that is where depth is lacking (esp if Henry got injured). They have to be either good enough to knock Dippre off the roster, or be a lower ranked one they are able to sneak on the practice squad and develop.

In terms of contacts, Delp, Villiari and Raridon have more potential receiving than actual production, and Gyllenborg had a down year. They seem to be reviewing these type of players.

I'd love Sadiq if he fell to 31, or Stowers, Delp, Klare or Roush if they were BPA at 63, 95 or 125 etc, but if not Villiari as a late rounder if fine with me.

Water Boy · Monday at 6:36 AM

scott99 said:
The Pats have 11 picks, they don’t need more picks, they need to hit on the picks they do have. If anything, this is the year to trade UP.

Greater chance to hit on players in the top 100. I'd rather have 4 of those chances than 3.

Clonamery · Monday at 7:07 AM

OldEngland said:
The TE room is average rather than spectular, but there is depth, a new TE2 FA, and developmental prospects from last year, and multiple FBs. It's not guaranteed a 5th or lower pick makes the roster. And when I look at the depth for OT, OG, DE, ILB, OLB, CB and S, they concern me far more than the TE room.

For me any pick has to be good enough to be the eventual TE1 replacement for Henry, and/or be an upgrade on CJ Dippre (who I would really like to see what he can do). The signing of Julian Hill for 3/18 means he is TE2, and he supposed to be more of a blocker with no seasons above 140y recieving in the nfl. CJ Dippre is a bit of a binky. Inline TE with mean strength, but his RAS of 8.7 hinted at more receiving potential, and he had almost 800y recieving on college, which is more than several prospects this year including Raridon and Kacmerak for example. Then you have FB, which likely replaces the TE4 roster spot. Pats signed Reggie Gilliam signed for 3/12m, and have Brock Lampe and Jack Westover as well who could get camp reps at TE (and had 800+ yard receiving in college). .

All the signings this year indicate improving the run game, and Hill and Dippre may do that. Personally I think any draft pick has to be a good receiving TE, that is where depth is lacking (esp if Henry got injured). They have to be either good enough to knock Dippre off the roster, or be a lower ranked one they are able to sneak on the practice squad and develop.

In terms of contacts, Delp, Villiari and Raridon have more potential receiving than actual production, and Gyllenborg had a down year. They seem to be reviewing these type of players.

I'd love Sadiq if he fell to 31, or Stowers, Delp, Klare or Roush if they were BPA at 63, 95 or 125 etc, but if not Villiari as a late rounder if fine with me.

Dippre couldn't beat out a back up tackle as TE3. The bar is very low.

scott99 · Monday at 8:18 AM

Water Boy said:
Greater chance to hit on players in the top 100. I'd rather have 4 of those chances than 3.

True, but you also miss out on better talent. For instance, let’s say the Pats trade down from 31 to 38 and pick up an extra pick in the 3rd round. You miss out on better prospects at 31, and there’s a chance the guy you wanted at 31 is no longer there at 38. The 3rd round pick, well the odds are against it being a player that can help you. May be top 100, but there are no guarantees they become anything.

Looking at the history of the draft, there are so many misses by teams, so many busts, even in the 1st round, let alone a 3rd round pick.

Water Boy · Monday at 8:48 AM

scott99 said:
True, but you also miss out on better talent. For instance, let’s say the Pats trade down from 31 to 38 and pick up an extra pick in the 3rd round. You miss out on better prospects at 31, and there’s a chance the guy you wanted at 31 is no longer there at 38. The 3rd round pick, well the odds are against it being a player that can help you. May be top 100, but there are no guarantees they become anything.

Looking at the history of the draft, there are so many misses by teams, so many busts, even in the 1st round, let alone a 3rd round pick.

I hear you. The approach depends on the board. If you have similar grades for players 31 through 50 it makes sense.

scott99 · Monday at 9:04 AM

Water Boy said:
I hear you. The approach depends on the board. If you have similar grades for players 31 through 50 it makes sense.

And that’s usually the case, similar grades picks 31-50. But if there’s a guy you love at 31, most likely an Edge or OT, don’t blow that chance at getting that guy. I rather trade up than down with the amount of picks the Pats have.

But you’re right in that it depends on their board. Who is left at 31, and how much they like those guys. The draft, though one of my favorite things, really is a crap shoot. Good discussion, I respect your thoughts on this topic (trading down vs trading up vs staying put).

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