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DL & EDGE Players: Run stuffers, designated pass rushers, hybrids, etc


Because I came so late to this year, I started off by watching highlight reels just to get a feel for prospects and Walker's blew me away. I did feel a little let down by his DB cut ups however. Certainly not the same player his highlight reel suggested.

I suppose my issue with Walker, in part, is that he replicates Flowers. Most of Flowers' sacks came from the 3-tech which is where Walker seems to do better. I'm really hoping for someone who can get that pressure from the edge. Although, I recognise that BB doesn't prioritise pure sacks from the edge relying more on setting the edge and containment.

I hear you. I think we all have visions of that Willie McGinest or Chandler Jones player across from Flowers. I'd love to see someone explosive like Harris or McKinley, or some blockbuster trade up for Garrett. But that's not usually how our defense works. That's why I spent time talking about his work against the run and his awareness with batting down passes. Virtually every game he'd get his hands into throwing lanes. Walker does replicate Flowers, but I'm not so sure that's a bad thing. I get why most want to go in a different direction, though, and it took me a long time to come around to him as a potential part of our front 7.
 
I hear you. I think we all have visions of that Willie McGinest or Chandler Jones player across from Flowers. I'd love to see someone explosive like Harris or McKinley, or some blockbuster trade up for Garrett. But that's not usually how our defense works. That's why I spent time talking about his work against the run and his awareness with batting down passes. Virtually every game he'd get his hands into throwing lanes. Walker does replicate Flowers, but I'm not so sure that's a bad thing. I get why most want to go in a different direction, though, and it took me a long time to come around to him as a potential part of our front 7.

I think I'd rather get someone like Basham who is more likely to get pressure off the edge. How about Basham in rnds 1-2 and Wise as an interior rusher/ Flowers backup on day three? Add in a linebacker who'd be an athletic blitzer (Reddick/Davis/Bowser) and you'd effectively upgrade the pass rush.

Just on Flowers, I believe almost all his sacks came from when he kicked inside rather than from the edge.
 
That recovery time is a bit of a concern for him.

 
That recovery time is a bit of a concern for him.



I'm surprised that he didn't do it as soon as the season ended, but maybe he thought it would be more important to participate in the Combine? Strange timeline that will keep him out of training camp and likely delay his development. Thanks for sharing.
 
THANK YOU Reamer. What an outstanding thread. And I speak for all of us who will use all your hard work and effort so we don't have to do it. ;).

Taco, just became my binky, though I doubt he'll even be close to coming to us at 32. A JG trade is the only chance we will get to get Taco, who I think is a top 15 guy. BTW- what I liked about his clips was how low he got in his outside rushes. In the NFL that ability to get UNDER the tall OT's in the league is a key to a great outside rusher. I also love his quickness and motor. You can't teach tall, but like I said he plays low, with great knee bend vs the rush. I also like that his best football will come after a few years in the NFL, as he adds functional strength.

When I watch Reddick, I thought Shazier almost immediately. If you want that skill set on your defense, Reddick would be your guy. But I'm looking for those skills in a guy we can get in the 4th or below, who can you suggest. I think Reddick will go too early for a guy who looks like a situational player.
 
THANK YOU Reamer. What an outstanding thread. And I speak for all of us who will use all your hard work and effort so we don't have to do it. ;).

Taco, just became my binky, though I doubt he'll even be close to coming to us at 32. A JG trade is the only chance we will get to get Taco, who I think is a top 15 guy. BTW- what I liked about his clips was how low he got in his outside rushes. In the NFL that ability to get UNDER the tall OT's in the league is a key to a great outside rusher. I also love his quickness and motor. You can't teach tall, but like I said he plays low, with great knee bend vs the rush. I also like that his best football will come after a few years in the NFL, as he adds functional strength.

When I watch Reddick, I thought Shazier almost immediately. If you want that skill set on your defense, Reddick would be your guy. But I'm looking for those skills in a guy we can get in the 4th or below, who can you suggest. I think Reddick will go too early for a guy who looks like a situational player.

Thanks, Ken! That means a lot coming from you. You're like the forum's godfather. ;)

Taco definitely checks all the boxes. If not for late development, he would probably be a top 10 guy. If Garrett didn't declare this year, Taco might have taken his place as the premier guy, even though Barnett was far more productive. Taco just has all the prototypical tools for the job.

Shazier is my working comp for Reddick, too. I'd shift him to ILB or WLB, honestly. I don't see him as a true edge player for the Patriots. Even so, his athleticism and toughness stand out, and if we lose Hightower (I hope not), then linebacker becomes an important area to upgrade. I don't fancy relying on Freeny as our starter.

As for 4th round coverage players: playing in space has become more valuable than ever before. The guys who show potential get snapped up earlier and earlier. That leaves undersized players (like Matt Milano, who is a great player but only 6' #220), injured guys with lots of questions marks (Kendell Beckwith, Joe Mathis, etc), or players with serious off-field concerns (Devonte Fields immediately comes to mind).

We'll know more after the combine. I'm still making my way through lists of games, so I haven't found later round player coverage guy that I feel strongly about. Maybe Carol Phillips? Looking through the lists of Edge and LB players, the late round options aren't encouraging for cover guys.
 
I think Vince Biegel ability to shread the blocks, rush the passer and cover are impressive. He could be the future replacement for Rob Nikovich.

So I'm in the process of breaking down Biegel currently, and I just wanted to say thanks for the tip! He's way quicker than I expected. Surprised he's not getting more buzz as a blitzer and cover guy. Needs to get stronger, but he has a lot of potential. Might be the 4th round cover guy that @patfanken was looking for! :)
 
That recovery time is a bit of a concern for him.



It is but it can be good for the Pats. Depending on how far down it knocks him where the Pats end up with trades he can be a real value get. It is a concern but also present a potential great opportunity just like the Jake Butt injury. If he falls to 64 he is hard to say no to.
 
It is but it can be good for the Pats. Depending on how far down it knocks him where the Pats end up with trades he can be a real value get. It is a concern but also present a potential great opportunity just like the Jake Butt injury. If he falls to 64 he is hard to say no to.

It would probably mean a redshirt year, or at least half a year if he can't take part in TC. But I wouldn't say no to the value of Takk at 64.
 
Major binkie alert. I try to be unbiased with these reviews, but this guy is just a joy to watch. I'd love to have him here.


DeMarcus Walker

6’3
273


Definition of an effort player. Walker most likely will not impress with his 40 yard time, but testing numbers are nearly meaningless when considering his style of play. With 16 sacks this year and 10.5 last year, he knows how to get to the quarterback. Off the field, he already has his degree. Well respected and lauded as a hard worker. Throwback type who says he looks forward to the “old school game — **** Butkus, Jack Lambert type of football.” He plays all over the line, inside and out, and holds up well against the run. He’s listed at 6’3 but will probably measure in at 6’2. He has a square, sturdy frame and likes to maul people.

Let's be clear: Walkers is not the big, fast defensive end prototype that everyone wants. He's not a freaky athlete or a can't miss, top 10 sort of prospect. Initially, I was pretty down on him as a player due to lack of speed, but the more games I watched from the last couple of years, the more I became convinced that he will carve out a solid career by sheer effort. After the Combine, I fully expect his stock to plummet. To me, that means he has incredible value when compared against the market; if he's available in the 2nd round, he could be the steal of the century. Overall, he reminds me of Trey Flowers, who has similar size and speed (only ran a 4.93 at the Combine), but has incredible power and explosion for his size, along with tenacity and great technique. Who wouldn't want another tough player like that on our team?

I can only post 5 embedded gifs per post, so I'll probably do a part II follow up later with some of my favorite moments, particularly from the Ole Miss game this year (4.5 sacks, all in the 2nd half).


Positives:

+ Stonewalls run blockers with a powerful punch
+ Sets a hard edge
+ Great hand fighter; looks like a boxer on the field
+ Exceptional core strength to hold his ground and shed blockers
+ Thick, powerful build; works hard in the weight room
+ Elite production; led the nation in sacks
+ Experienced rushing from inside/outside and right/left
+ Disciplined, well-composed player who shows awareness against cutback runs
+ Does not often compromise lane integrity in his rush
+ Defibrillator pads for hands; when he jolts blockers, sometimes sends them flying! :cool:
+ Hyper aware on the field: bats passes, sniffs out screens and misdirection, etc
+ Often gets more effective as the game wears on; better conditioned than his opponent
+ Tough, aggressive, hard-nosed player
+ Powerful hands; can drag down players with one arm if necessary


Negatives:

- Not the fleetest of foot when asked to play in space
- Not likely to be useful in man to man coverage
- May struggle adjusting to the speed of the NFL game
- Pops upright off the snap too frequently, negating his natural leverage
- Occasionally looks like he's stuck in quicksand compared with the players around him
+ Needs to be more consistent throughout entire game, not just when the opponents are tired


Walker shows a great feel for the game. He watches Watson's eyes, recognizes that it's a quick throw, and breaks off his rush to get his hands in the air. Savvy player.



Later on in the same game, Walker makes the same type of play from the other side of the line. These passes batted down don't get people as excited as a sack, but they can still stall a drive and shut down an offense:



In case I've understated his athleticism, he has plenty of get off to turn the corner and get the sack. Good lean and rip:



Big strip-sack in the 4th quarter while lined up inside. The violent, coordinated way his arms and body work in concert reminds me a ton of Trey Flowers. Too much for the guard to handle:



Another pass batted down (he might have more disruption in passing lanes than any player I've watched this year). Great awareness as part of a three-man rush. Sound familiar? The Patriots led the league in rushing three or fewer, if I recall.



Great job. Watching entire games is even more impressive.
Maybe Im way off but to me he is already a football player Taco will never be.
So I wouldn't mind taking him at #32 at all. In fact Id open a bottle of my finest..

The only Q is similarity with Flowers
He is bigger than Flowers though + plays bigger than his size and could be what they wanted to have with A Johnson in addition..

Then again maybe they see a different rusher profile (speed&cover) more useful high in the draft.

In any case Id hate to see a pure rusher pick at #32.
Give me a versatile rushing DL with edge priority (Walker/Harris/Basham) or versatile OLB with lateral speed (Reddick) or alpha LB (Cunningham, McMillan).

But since the drop off in 2nd and 3rd category is more significant . Id wait for whoever falls to #64 (Walker/Harris/Basham) . or Wise further down..
 
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Jaleel Johnson review up: DL & EDGE Players: Run stuffers, designated pass rushers, hybrids, etc

Mixed feelings about Johnson. Some days I think he's the best DT in this class. Other times, I worry that his inconsistency against the run would permanently keep him off the field. All about the projected career arc, as I mentioned. Potential all pro, but just as much potential for busting.
 
Which of these guys would you say would be best a 'bookend' or take over ninks role?
 
Which of these guys would you say would be best a 'bookend' or take over ninks role?

If you're looking for a solid LDE, and assuming Soloman Thomas isn't on the cards, I'd say Taco Charlton (both a RDE and LDE in our system), DeMarcus Walker, Daeshon Hall and maybe Deatrich Wise. Thomas, Walker and Wise are all candidates to play inside too. I'm a big fan of Tarrell Basham to play RDE similarly to Chandler Jones. Ryan Anderson is another possibility.

Just my opinion, I haven't watched these guys to the extent Reamer has though.
 
Just asking because you have to think that it will addressed soon...and Sheard is probably gone. Not saying it warrants a high pick but...nice to be informed
 
Just asking because you have to think that it will addressed soon...and Sheard is probably gone. Not saying it warrants a high pick but...nice to be informed

I wouldn't object to someone who can either play both or a LDE later in the draft AND a RDE. I'm a big fan of Basham early.
 
Which of these guys would you say would be best a 'bookend' or take over ninks role?

Depends what you're looking for, really. Our defense has morphed since Nink was a prime starter at OLB. If you want an all around guy who could play DE or LB, hold up against the run, drop into coverage, and still rush the passer, then Anderson seems like a natural Nink replacement. Maybe Mathis late round?

Otherwise, @manxman2601 listed some guys I like. Basham, Walker, and Taco are favorites at this point.
 
Jaleel Johnson review up: DL & EDGE Players: Run stuffers, designated pass rushers, hybrids, etc

Mixed feelings about Johnson. Some days I think he's the best DT in this class. Other times, I worry that his inconsistency against the run would permanently keep him off the field. All about the projected career arc, as I mentioned. Potential all pro, but just as much potential for busting.


He was a huge binkie watching the highlights, full games brought Qs you mention.
Then an interview with Ogunjobi IIRC hinted his possible character issues (fooling around all the time). Not every party prospect is Gronk or Bennett..
 
Open to taking requests for the next breakdowns. I have so many players still to profile, and I can't decide where to go next. This class is insane.
 


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