Gary Mayers troll piece on Belichick: "I can make a strong case he’s overrated and living off Brady"

Soul_Survivor88 · Dec 19, 2016

Urgent said:
Belichick is 14-8 or 15-7, depending on how you account for the partial Bledsoe/Cassel injury games. Still a 64%-68% win rate. That translates into an 11-win 16-game season without Brady..

Okay, that seems about right

Wordsmyth · Dec 19, 2016

Soul_Survivor88 said:
Sunday Morning QB: How about Eli Manning just calls the plays?

Gary Myers is wrong about many things in this piece (notably Belichick's approach to dealing with off-field controversies and players with character issues). To spare you from having to click on it, here's a brief segment

Self-righteousness aside, if you wanna discuss the merit of his football analysis, no comment is as egregious or ignorant as the notion that Belichick is riding on Brady's excellence.

Not only does he have a solid winning record in NE in games without Brady (13-6 or .684) but time and time again, he has demonstrated a mastery of personnel decisions while displaying an ability to adjust and outscheme any opponent.

If you want to find a nice example, just compare Belichick's record with Brady's against the Broncos. While Brady is the winningnest quarterback in NFL history, the only team that has a winning record against him in none other the Broncos. As of yesterday, Brady is a career 7-9 against Denver (playoffs included).

But, when you look at the record of the franchise itself, under Belichick, a different story is told. Whatever Brady's struggles are against Denver, the fact is....The Patriots do not have a losing record against any franchise dating back to 2000. The Patriots beat Denver in 2000 and 2008 (without Brady) and are now 9-9 under Belichick.

When it comes to mediots, Brady and Belichick are always made to be exploiting each other in one way or another (e.g. Brady being a "system quarterback") but in reality, they are an amazing QB-Coach duo, who complement each other's strengths (and sometimes, compensate well for each other's shortcomings.)

I am grateful for Brady. Even though his numbers were pedestrian, he managed the offense well and executed the game plan. On the other hand, the team as a whole was spectacular ...and the coaching staff under Belichick (Scharneccia included) were nothing short of brilliant.

Mediots be dammned... I love this team!!! GO PATS!!!

Nice guilt-by-association fallacy pimped by our astute assbutt Gary. His shtick reeks of hubris, desperation, and cheap gin.

Deus Irae · Dec 19, 2016

Soul_Survivor88 said:
Interesting....just so we're clear, I'm qualifying the w-l of Belichick's record post-Bledsoe (hence, 13-6). That might be misleading to some, but very seldom does a coach achieve a winning record during their first year on a team -- considering how long it takes to implement a new program and playbook.

It's not misleading to some. It's misleading to all.

Soul_Survivor88 said:
Point is...Belichick has built a brilliant organization that has experienced sustained success even in the absence of Brady (either due injury or suspension) while still making TB12 a key, foundation.

But the point doesn't hold. There's been no "sustained" success in the Brady era without Brady.
2007: 16-0 against a tough schedule
2008: 11-5 (and missed playoffs) against an easy schedule

Deus Irae · Dec 19, 2016

Urgent said:
Yes, there are 18-19 losses without Brady. However, that's really driven by the first house-cleaning season, as is pretty common. The Patriots went 5-11 in Belichick's first year, following the steady declines under the Pete Carroll/Rosy Grier team. The next year they won the Super Bowl.

Otherwise Belichick is 14-8 or 15-7, depending on how you account for the partial Bledsoe/Cassel injury games. Still a 64%-68% win rate. That translates into an 11-win 16-game season without Brady.

Now they do get to play the Jets and Bills twice a season. I did not take those out of the stats...

The record is the record. Pretending games don't exist is embarrassing. It's also ridiculously misleading.

Even if you don't count the Bledsoe year, Tom Brady has been the starting QB of the NE Patriots for 15 years. In those 15 years, the Patriots have won the division 14 times, and have only missed the playoffs once. The one year where Brady was injured, the Patriots didn't win the division and didn't make the playoffs, despite having a very soft schedule.

aluminum seats · Dec 19, 2016

Deus Irae said:
2007: 16-0 against a tough schedule
2008: 11-5 (and missed playoffs) against an easy schedule

Every year and team is different though. They were 10-6 the following year with Brady.

Deus Irae · Dec 19, 2016

aluminum seats said:
Every year and team is different though. They were 10-6 the following year with Brady.

aluminum seats · Dec 19, 2016

Deus Irae said:

Uh....no, this doesn't really fit at all. And you rely on this kind of thing way too much. You're slipping, my friend.

BelizePats · Dec 19, 2016

It's quite simple really. This is the work of a mental case.

TBR · Dec 19, 2016

You could make a case that appears strong, but only because it's next to impossible to measure the impact of coaching. It's pretty much an eye-test. That's it. Unlike all the statistics you can easily measure for a QB.

I don't get why people (especially Patriot-hating crybabies) can't accept that they just happen to be 2 of the greatest of all time on the same team.

Montana and Walsh were 2 all time greats on the same team. As were Jordan and Phil Jackson. Auerbach & Russell.

h0c2000 · Dec 19, 2016

Deus Irae said:
The record is the record. Pretending games don't exist is embarrassing. It's also ridiculously misleading.

Even if you don't count the Bledsoe year, Tom Brady has been the starting QB of the NE Patriots for 15 years. In those 15 years, the Patriots have won the division 14 times, and have only missed the playoffs once. The one year where Brady was injured, the Patriots didn't win the division and didn't make the playoffs, despite having a very soft schedule.

I want to forget the 2002 season also.

Mainefan · Dec 19, 2016

Brady and Belichick are both overrated and neither would be any good if he couldn't lean on the other

Deus Irae · Dec 19, 2016

aluminum seats said:
Uh....no, this doesn't really fit at all. And you rely on this kind of thing way too much. You're slipping, my friend.

It fits fine. You missed the blatantly obvious. Your 2009 argument is, essentially, the same argument I'm making about 2008 (and the non-Brady wins in general for that matter), which is that context is important (Brady coming back from ACL, major defensive turnover, loss of offensive weapons, more difficult schedule, etc...).

DaBronxPats14 · Dec 19, 2016

CheekyDave said:
Why would anyone read Myers,If you see a pile a dog crap on the sidewalk, and walk in it, why are you suprised that you get **** in your shoe?

Exactly! Take Myer's column and put it down for a dog (with his pic inset facing up) not that a dog would want to take his newspaper and column to bathroom.

RecoveringCowboy · Dec 19, 2016

oldrover said:
Patriot haters on Belichick: "He's overrated and living off Brady."

Patriot haters on Brady: "He's overrated and living off Belichick."

Last I checked, football is a team sport.

As @oldrover pointed out, greats often are not alone. You can say Parcells was not great without BB, Walsh without Montana, Landry without Staubach, Lombardi without Starr, etc.

Silver Blue&Red · Dec 19, 2016

The Patriot mantra: "You can all go Fvk off". Put that in your trophy case and smoke it.

aluminum seats · Dec 19, 2016

Deus Irae said:
It fits fine. You missed the blatantly obvious. Your 2009 argument is, essentially, the same argument I'm making about 2008 (and the non-Brady wins in general for that matter), which is that context is important (Brady coming back from ACL, major defensive turnover, loss of offensive weapons, more difficult schedule, etc...).

I'm sorry, your initial post didn't read that way to me. Seemed as though you were pointing to the dropoff from 2007 to 2008 as evidence of Brady's greatness.

TomPatriot · Dec 19, 2016

I don't think BB cooperated when Myers wrote his children's book "Coaching Confidential" - or something like that.

RecoveringCowboy · Dec 19, 2016

On every Team of the Decade, Gary Mayers could diss the HC - every one of those teams had a great HC, great QB, and more.

Patriot Missile · Dec 19, 2016

Funny how this get's brought up in the media like it's one of the 8 wonders of the world. Have a feeling they will be debating about this long after both are retired which is kind of sad.

They have greatness to cover once a week for a short while longer and they choose to treat it like witchcraft or voodoo instead. Everyone fears and loathes what they can't understand. Not much has changed over the years. Instead of being burnt to the stake they give out 4'game suspensions, fines and take away draft picks.

deroc5050 · Dec 19, 2016

Its hard to win in the league with out a top 10 QB. The 200+ wins that TB/BB have are a combined effort. And really those are team stats. Of course the QB should get more credit than other players.. Bill has won plenty of games with his coaching approach alone. Tom Brady has put the team on his back at times, they are a combo deal.

I think they are both great on there own. They are legendary with each other.

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