If Jimmy Looks a Franchise QB, Would You Trade Brady?

BradyFTW! · Aug 4, 2016

No. No matter how good he looks, the answer is no. Brady's a very rare breed of athlete, and he's the kind of guy who you plot your organization's course around. As long as he's good enough to start in the NFL, and he's willing to play for an amount of money that's commensurate to his abilities, he's your guy.

I think this whole situation is made easier by the fact that, when he's no longer good enough to be the guy, I think he'll retire rather than force the team's hand. And as long as he's good enough to be the guy, I think it's a disservice to trade him after everything he's done for the team and what he means to the franchise and the fans.

ausbacker · Aug 4, 2016

In a word, no.

BradyFTW! · Aug 4, 2016

aluminum seats said:
Well, that's just kind of a list of quarterbacks. I realize terms haven't been defined so in some ways it's hard to figure the parameters, but a guy like Rick Mirer, say, was never one that you thought he would be great (once he was playing in the NFL).

Going by my own personal takes, of that list Kaepernick is probably the only guy who I thought might be a franchise guy who then really fell off the cliff. Of the rest, didn't they just sort of end up where you thought? Any genuine surprises?

Based on a full season in 2008, plenty of posters on this very board were convinced that Matt Cassel was the QB of the future and that the team was better off trading Brady.

Obviously the situation is different with Brady being 39 rather than 31, but the general point--that even a full season of borderline Pro Bowl play doesn't put a QB anywhere near Brady's league--is one that we should all bear in mind for 4 games.

AzPatsFan · Aug 4, 2016

Of course not. You keep them both if Polo looks like a true successor. Its only money and wont hurt for more than a single year at most. Starting QBs are few and far between, to find or groom.

Gameoverluke · Aug 5, 2016

Even thou Tom is 39 he does not look or move like he is of that age..Compare him to Manning. Manning looked ready to move into a retirement home. Tom is going strong and I believe he will for years to come still. In 3 years time we could draft another Garoppolo or better

Gronk · Aug 5, 2016

Brit patriot said:
Either way, I think this is a convo for this year. I imagine the idea won't be well received as TB is God, but I imagine the same convo was had when Montana went to Kansas!

Nope, because Montana hadn't been able to play in two years due to injury and Young had already won the team over in the interim. If Jimmy can do that in 4 games....then yeah, we'd at least have an actual debate. But that's not real.

I'd say if Jimmy looks like a franchise QB, I'd trade Jimmy. Looks can be deceiving. There is no way to determine with any certainty that one is or is not a franchise QB based on 4 games. Let someone back up the truck for him and use it to stack the future. Toms got some time left in him, and even if JG is good that doesn't mean you sell out the present for a still uncertain future.

In a word...trade TB12? Never.

bostonia3333 · Aug 5, 2016

In response to the thread title, NO

I don't know how mentally competitive Jimmy G is--I could be wrong, but he seems super laid back---looks can be deceiving I know. Brady remembered every qb that was drafted ahead of him and that fueled him to become who he is today. Zolak touched on this the other day....JG lacks fire and perhaps some command of the huddle. He may be one of those guys that works hard to get a contract and thats it, we don't know. Tom Brady never chased money, money chased him, that's what makes him so special is his competitive drive. No other athlete has that outside of Jordan and Tiger. Even if Brady's athletic skills erode, his leadership on the team is invaluable.

Brit patriot · Aug 5, 2016

I am amazed by the sulky whining which is equating this QUESTION with the the Cassell idiocy in 08.

BB always prefers to get rid of someone a year early rather than a year late (Bruschi and Mayo don't count as they would have had no value, so why trade a legend for no value?) Some of you may want to go down with the ship, but Bill won't. If it is good for the team, it will happen. or at least Tom will be nudged that his time is coming to an end.

At NO POINT have I called for the trade, at NO POINT have I stated I think JG is franchise material. How the hell would I know? Bill won't know yet, but I do get the impression that after two years, he will know if he isn't.

Maybe Tom has 3 to 4 years left (some have said that, fair play), and JG can be traded in the summer (Jimmy will not be walking for nothing, the Brissett pick tells you that) and we have three years to work it out. Maybe, but as I said before, this is a brutal business. Tom won't be kept until he is being carried off, and on day one the war room won't be like, 'oh well, what do we do now?'

It would be a better discussion if many said what their plan was instead of the original question, instead of acting like 4 year olds crying 'leave my Tom alone'

Miguel · Aug 5, 2016

Current Brady 2017 cap number = 14M.
Trading him before 6/1/2017 would make him his dead money hit $27 million. No QB has a 2017 cap hit that high. Good luck trying to build a team around Jimmy G with that much dead money while also tendering Butler at 4M and maybe tagging a LB at around 14M.

Brady's New Money APY is $20.5M. If I were Jimmy G and just beat out an all-time great for the starting position, $20.5M APY is my absolute floor.

Brit patriot · Aug 5, 2016

Miguel said:
Current Brady 2017 cap number = 14M.
Trading him before 6/1/2017 would make him his dead money hit $27 million. No QB has a 2017 cap hit that high. Good luck trying to build a team around Jimmy G with that much dead money while also tendering Butler at 4M and maybe tagging a LB at around 14M.

Brady's New Money APY is $20.5M. If I were Jimmy G and just beat out an all-time great for the starting position, $20.5M APY is my absolute floor.

Well that answers that!!!!!!!!!!!

1960Pats · Aug 5, 2016

The Gr8est said:
After 2001 and a Superbowl ring, there was still a debate on who the Pats should keep, Brady or Bledsoe.

Jimmy is not the equal of the current Tom Brady, but he could very well equal Brady's first 4 games as starting QB.

The only people who were debating the QB starting job in 2002 were the Bledsoe fans. Belichick's mind was already made up.

I seriously doubt that JG will equal Brady's first 4 games (3-1 with 121 points scored) as starting QB. I hope I'm wrong about that though.

DarrylS · Aug 5, 2016

The Patriots will design their offense to make it look like it is a Jimmy G. is a franchise QB, and he will do well in this system.. but after Mallett, Hoyer, Cassell etc. we will know different.

However some team out there will pay a kings ransom for his services.. and BB will once again prove what a genius he and his krewe are...

Tony2046 · Aug 5, 2016

Brit patriot said:
I am amazed by the sulky whining which is equating this QUESTION with the the Cassell idiocy in 08.

BB always prefers to get rid of someone a year early rather than a year late (Bruschi and Mayo don't count as they would have had no value, so why trade a legend for no value?) Some of you may want to go down with the ship, but Bill won't. If it is good for the team, it will happen. or at least Tom will be nudged that his time is coming to an end.

At NO POINT have I called for the trade, at NO POINT have I stated I think JG is franchise material. How the hell would I know? Bill won't know yet, but I do get the impression that after two years, he will know if he isn't.

Maybe Tom has 3 to 4 years left (some have said that, fair play), and JG can be traded in the summer (Jimmy will not be walking for nothing, the Brissett pick tells you that) and we have three years to work it out. Maybe, but as I said before, this is a brutal business. Tom won't be kept until he is being carried off, and on day one the war room won't be like, 'oh well, what do we do now?'

It would be a better discussion if many said what their plan was instead of the original question, instead of acting like 4 year olds crying 'leave my Tom alone'

So you reply to whiny "leave my Tom alone" posts with a whiny "leave me alone " post?

Start a "hypothetical " about trading Brady without seeing JG play a single game.

Wow.

Brit patriot · Aug 5, 2016

Tony2046 said:
So you reply to whiny "leave my Tom alone" posts with a whiny "leave me alone " post?

Start a "hypothetical " about trading Brady without seeing JG play a single game.

Wow.

I'm not whining, I'm pointing out that some people are getting too upset at the prospect of even thinking about the days after Brady, rather than be willing to talk about what we can do after. As much as people shouldn't presume JG is franchise material, the presumption he isn't like we saw in that above post is equally ignorant. As I said, BB will have more of an idea than any of us

As Miguel said, the cap space means that isn't an option, or it would have to be the most insane trade in trading history to make it worthwhile. So that is fine. But I seriously wouldn't take the idea personally. Most of us are Patriots, not wanting to get involved in a personality cult. I intend to be be watching this lot when Brady and Gisele are older, a bit fatter, and sat on the beach, so with that day approaching I would like to share opinions.

*****ing isn't gonna make the clock stop.

MassPats38 · Aug 5, 2016

In response to the OP, I suspect BB is always running the numbers on when Brady's return on investment reduces to the point of making another option palatable. My read on Brady is, barring a catastrophic injury that settles the question, his core skill set is less susceptible to Father Time.

A QB like Bledsoe or Favre relies on a cannon arm. Time takes velocity off, which eventually leaves the QB without that primary weapon (What is the fallback when you cannot thread those passes anymore and the long balls float?). Brady on paper was never that. He is best at short and intermediate passing. More importantly, his high grades are reading the field/decision-making, short to mid range accuracy, and competitive nature. I do not see him falling off a performance cliff like others.

He will not be playing when he's 70, but I would not bet against him in the short term maintaining his level of performance (or possibly looking better by virtue of players added to the roster). I have no doubt when his time actually comes, BB will not hesitate to make the switch. That time is just not now.

ChessToCheckers · Aug 5, 2016

No. Hopefully, Brady retires as a Patriot in a small, private announcement ceremony on the deck of Belichick's boat, "Ten Rings".

borg · Aug 5, 2016

Seventeen years and only one significant injury......that defies the odds for his position. TB12 may be able to stay ahead of Father Time skill-wise but I wonder if his bone density will defy mother nature as well. He took a beating last year and remained standing.....how long can that go on. Four less games does improve his odds.....but still.......39 year old bones.....one blind side it. This argument could be settled on any one play without the front office having to make choices.
Hope not.

varjao · Aug 5, 2016

If we win #5 this season, and Jimmy looks like the next after Aaron Rodgers, then I can see Brady taking this decision. He is so decent that he would do what's best for the team, I mean, looking forward to the fan base not Kraft.

I can see him playing a season or 2 in his childhood team the 49ers and calling it a career. It's not like the are set at the position.

Galeb · Aug 5, 2016

borg said:
Seventeen years and only one significant injury......that defies the odds for his position. TB12 may be able to stay ahead of Father Time skill-wise but I wonder if his bone density will defy mother nature as well. He took a beating last year and remained standing.....how long can that go on. Four less games does improve his odds.....but still.......39 year old bones.....one blind side it. This argument could be settled on any one play without the front office having to make choices.
Hope not.

It is rarely the fragility of bones that cuts QB careers short. It is usually the fragility of ligaments, tendons or muscles that end their career. TB has adopted a training regiment dedicated to making ligaments, tendons and muscles more flexible and supple in order to extend his career. It is something no QB has yet done, and it will be interesting to see how effective it is.

PP2 · Aug 5, 2016

bostonia3333 said:
In response to the thread title, NO

I don't know how mentally competitive Jimmy G is--I could be wrong, but he seems super laid back---looks can be deceiving I know. Brady remembered every qb that was drafted ahead of him and that fueled him to become who he is today. Zolak touched on this the other day....JG lacks fire and perhaps some command of the huddle. He may be one of those guys that works hard to get a contract and thats it, we don't know. Tom Brady never chased money, money chased him, that's what makes him so special is his competitive drive. No other athlete has that outside of Jordan and Tiger. Even if Brady's athletic skills erode, his leadership on the team is invaluable.

That is exactly it.

The last player off the field the other day wasn't the quarterback with the biggest start of his career looming in about a month, it was the 4 time champion, 16 year veteran with absolutely nothing left to prove. Posters looking too much into the future need to think about that for a minute.

There's just no substitute for that very rare instinct to excel to the best of one's ability and never take anything for granted. It's very special when that happens. Studying film at 3 a.m., doing exercise at halftime of a real game, refusing to eat a certain fruit because it has too much natural sugar.

For today's NBA kids, 100 shots is a real drill.. A couple hundred is rare, but necessary if you're on a bad streak.

For Larry Bird, 1,000 shots was just a warmup, something he did to start off most mornings.

It's been 24 years since he retired and the Celtics have had no luck drafting anyone who had anything near what he brought to the game.

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