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The Official Rounds 2&3 2013 NFL Draft Thread


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They drafted a 'quitter'? Does anyone know what in the hell he is talking about?
Collins basically admitted it himself. The players really didn't like the coaches, and they were a terrible team, so a lot of the players stopped taking it seriously. If that's really what the issue was, then he won't have problems in NE. And the guy still had 10 sacks and 20 TFLs.

I do think it's awfully Deus-like to complain that he's a quitter, rather than talk about how he's a super-athletic pass rusher who should also be able to help in coverage. I don't understand how some people can never focus on anything but the negatives, but he's been pretty darn consistent in having that view about everything, especially this offseason.
 
Problem is that you and ausbacker, who I generally have a good amount of respect for, are trying to lump posters who have legitimate beefs in with the chicken littles. This is no doubt due to the fact that said posters are trying to find anyway they can to rate this draft so far over 50% over overwhelming facts.

Not true. I said I wasn't pointing a Deus. I wasn't pointing at you either. I was just stating in general. There are people here who root for the Pats to lose just to be right. That was my only point. Probably shouldn't have said it in a post replying to me replying to Deus.




He was an inconsistent pass rusher with bad technique and maybe a quitter, but a good coverage LB. You just stated as much yourself. Therefore, it's safe to assume that he was drafted as a coverage LB.

I have said I am not a draftnick and I don't know a lot of Collins all night even before you came on. All I know is what I read and most of the write ups talk about his ability to get to the QB, not his ability to drop into coverage:

Collins needs to get better taking on blocks, and he has just average instincts. His value is that he can get after the quarterback. He ran a 4.64 at the combine and that speed shows up on tape. He can get around the corner and closes very well. There is also a lot to like about his tackling, doing a nice job wrapping in space and delivering big hits on quarterbacks. You would like to see more consistent effort at times, though.

Jamie Collins 2013 NFL Draft Profile - ESPN


STRENGTHS: Muscular, athletic-looking frame with powerful hands and long arms. Accelerates well in a straight line, and exhibits good flexibility, both coming off the edge as a rusher, as well as when changing direction in space. Displays a knack for getting to the quarterback off the edge, with impressive natural power on contact, and ability to disengage when he uses his hands effectively. Flashes a strong, sudden closing burst in space. Appears natural and comfortable in his lower half when asked to drop into zone coverage. When he gets his arms extended at the point of attack, can really manhandle his blocker. Doesn't possess a ton of short-area burst when breaking down to make tackles in space, but uses length nicely to compensate.

Jamie Collins, OLB, Southern Mississippi, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Most talk about his pass rushing skills first and his coverage ability second. I assume he will be mostly playing RDE on passing downs. I could be wrong. The RDE for the Pats does have coverage responsibilities from time to time.
 
Collins basically admitted it himself. The players really didn't like the coaches, and they were a terrible team, so a lot of the players stopped taking it seriously. If that's really what the issue was, then he won't have problems in NE. And the guy still had 10 sacks and 20 TFLs.

I do think it's awfully Deus-like to complain that he's a quitter, rather than talk about how he's a super-athletic pass rusher who should also be able to help in coverage. I don't understand how some people can never focus on anything but the negatives, but he's been pretty darn consistent in having that view about everything, especially this offseason.

I think that it is an utter embarrassment that people like Deus and Brady2Moss actually can comment on any of the four draft picks that were made today without doing the proper research and tape review and make the comments that they make.

It is rank amateur hour for any of them to even receive attention for the kind of dribble that they post. Its' disgusting and it brings to light that each of them don't know the first thing about the game of football.
 
Collins basically admitted it himself. The players really didn't like the coaches, and they were a terrible team, so a lot of the players stopped taking it seriously. If that's really what the issue was, then he won't have problems in NE. And the guy still had 10 sacks and 20 TFLs.

I do think it's awfully Deus-like to complain that he's a quitter, rather than talk about how he's a super-athletic pass rusher who should also be able to help in coverage. I don't understand how some people can never focus on anything but the negatives, but he's been pretty darn consistent in having that view about everything, especially this offseason.

Another blatantly false personal attack.



Shocking.
 
You are a disgrace to this board. You should know that.

Awww can't handle that some of the players drafted have flaws, you seem very angry tonight. I feel sorry for you that all you can turn to is calling me a disgrace to a message board, when you begin to see the truth about some of the problems with some of the moves this team makes.
 
Awww can't handle that some of the players drafted have flaws, you seem very angry tonight. I feel sorry for you that all you can turn to is calling me a disgrace to a message board, when you begin to see the truth about some of the problems with some of the moves this team makes.

You are a disgrace and you have no clue as to what you are talking about. When you decide to actually watch some tape and actually watch these players then get back to us (which will likely be never).

You are officially going to be put on my permanent ignore list.
 
Collins basically admitted it himself. The players really didn't like the coaches, and they were a terrible team, so a lot of the players stopped taking it seriously. If that's really what the issue was, then he won't have problems in NE. And the guy still had 10 sacks and 20 TFLs.

I do think it's awfully Deus-like to complain that he's a quitter, rather than talk about how he's a super-athletic pass rusher who should also be able to help in coverage. I don't understand how some people can never focus on anything but the negatives, but he's been pretty darn consistent in having that view about everything, especially this offseason.

Let's ignore all the bad things and just talk about the good things so we can fool ourselves into thinking this team is having a great offseason!!

Hint: Tom Brady is why all these disastrous moves are forgotten once the season begins. He is that good and when he is gone boy you guys will turn on BB the GM (not coach there is a difference) fast.
 
You are a disgrace and you have no clue as to what you are talking about. When you decide to actually watch some tape and actually watch these players then get back to us (which will likely be never).

You are officially going to be put on my permanent ignore list.

I am so hurt Mel Kiper, tell me about all the film you have reviewed of Collins.
 
Good - now that is done, I wrote this up for everyone but the two that will be on my permanent ignore list. Looking forward to tomorrows' picks....Have a good night everyone.

Jamie Collins, DE/OLB, Southern Mississippi: Collins is an athletic freak (please see his combine numbers) who looks like he can play both strongside and weakside linebacker in a 4-3 set. He is nothing like Shawn Crable because he has a very strong base below the waste. He typically lined up in a 3-point stance at USM and worked through what was a tough situation last year on a winless squad. Collins has good, not great, sideline to sideline speed and has had adequate exposure in covering running backs and tight ends in coverage situations. I would have preferred Arthur Brown, OLB, who is now with the Ravens. With that said, Collins will get plenty of opportunity with the Patriots at WLB and/or SLB and provides insurance if or when Ninkovich walks as a free agent following next year. I give his draft grade as a B.

Aaron Dobson, WR, Marshall: Dobson, out of all of the wide receiver prospects in this draft class, has the best body control out of any that has been drafted and has unbelievable hands. Dobson is the prototypical X receiver that the Patriots need and if he learns the playbook in an efficient manner, he could be a starter on week 1. Learn all of the tree routes in the playbook and he could contend for NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year. I think that his speed is more than fine and he is big enough to be our version of Anquan Boldin if coached properly. I give his draft grade as an A.

Logan Ryan, CB, Rutgers: In my view, Ryan is more of a ho-hum selection out of all of the Day 2 selections. He is solid in run support and has a tendency to be over-aggressive in play action pass situations because he has had a habit of being too focused on the line of scrimmage. He has good speed but when a wide receiver gets a couple of steps on him, he has difficulty recovering. With that said, he is particularly good on crossing routes and I can imagine that he will have issue with more physical receivers (i.e. Anquan Boldin types). With that said, he looks particularly good in cover 2 schemes and if the play is in front of him that is where he will be the most productive. I give his draft grade as a C+

Duron Harmon, S, Rutgers: While Harmon was not high on draft prognosticators lists, there is a lot to like about this prospect. He has above average closing speed in the secondary and has a nose for the ball. He understood his role as the safety valve and will provide competition to Gregory, Ebner and to a lesser extent Tavon Wilson McCourty. With that said, only God knows why Caserio and Belichick decided that Round 3 was the time for Harmon to be selected. But, as far as I am concerned, it is irrelevant. What is relevant is if Harmon has the talent to contribute to this team. He could be the long-term strong safety that the Pats were looking for after Chung became a free agent. He certainly has the skills and equally important, Harmon appears to be quite intelligent. He could be a real find or a real dud. We’ll see. I am giving the pick of Harmon a grade of C based on his perceived value.

Day 2 Draft Grade is 85+95+78+75 (180+153 = 333/4) = 83.25 or a B-/B Grade out of this grouping.
 
Let's ignore all the bad things and just talk about the good things so we can fool ourselves into thinking this team is having a great offseason!! .

You do the exact opposite of this.
 
You do the exact opposite of this.

Yes I know because if everyone is going to be insanely optimistic I will be pessimistic to balance things out, especially when history shows that we make the wrong moves every year to kill us in January.

Plus I acknowledge they may have upside but I'm trying to be realistic unlike most.
 
Yes I know because if everyone is going to be insanely optimistic I will be pessimistic to balance things out, especially when history shows that we make the wrong moves every year to kill us in January.

Plus I acknowledge they may have upside but I'm trying to be realistic unlike most.

You'll love this, then....

When you look at the way the draft fell, the Patriots could have drafted, with just one small trade up in round 3:


Dobson
Swearinger
Wheaton
Rutgers guy of their choice

and that's assuming that the redundant linebacker went off the board before the spot where they'd have been picking the Rutgers kid.
 
Yes I know because if everyone is going to be insanely optimistic I will be pessimistic to balance things out, especially when history shows that we make the wrong moves every year to kill us in January.

Plus I acknowledge they may have upside but I'm trying to be realistic unlike most.
Kill us in january? some would kill for the consistency we have.
 
The point is the pick itself has value, and especially in a case like this, why not draft someone more conventionally rated AND sign this dude later. You don't need to use a pick to pick up scraps like this. Even IF this guy turns out to be a HOFer, it wouldn't make this a good pick.

How did I miss this gem earlier?

Let me get this correct. You're saying that if Harmon works out, no matter what he will always be considered a terrible pick because the Pats didn't draft some guy you have heard of before, the guy Mel Kiper thought they should have picked, or even your favorite binky instead? Seriously, there have been a lot of ridiculous comments made the past two nights, but this may take the cake.

I don't think there will be a player that I root for harder to make it than this kid. Not only would it make half the people on this board who complain about everything eat crow, but the kid seems to have a super character and will to win based on the interviews that have been posted so far.
 
You'll love this, then....

When you look at the way the draft fell, the Patriots could have drafted, with just one small trade up in round 3:


Dobson
Swearinger
Wheaton
Rutgers guy of their choice

and that's assuming that the redundant linebacker went off the board before the spot where they'd have been picking the Rutgers kid.

Yup could've doubled up on WR, gotten a true SS to compete with Tavon and still satisfied the masochistic desire to overdraft a Rutgers guy.

But then again who needs Swearinger we drafted Harmon, BB's smarter than everyone on the planet and saw something in the guy. And why do we need to double up on wide receivers this team is all set with Amendola and Jones, I'd say Dobson was a luxury :rolleyes:.

The draft literally fell perfectly from a Patriots perspective. They didn't even have to move around too much to land all those guys despite trading down 20 picks to win the value competition they partake in every year. And still they manage to overdraft a guy by 4 rounds.
 
Collins fared very well at this year's scouting combine.

According to NFL.com, in addition to his 40-yard dash time, which ranked fourth among linebackers, Collins placed among the top five at his position in the three-cone drill and 60-yard shuttle.

Additionally, Collins led all linebackers in both the vertical leap and broad jump, demonstrating the sort of leg strength that helps him explode off the line of scrimmage.


2013 NFL combine Jamie Collins 11'7" broad jump - YouTube

Jamie Collins Southern Miss - YouTube

a few highlights...funny...the team went 0-12 but the crazy haters call him a dog...

Ultimate Jamie Collins Highlights (NFL Draft 2013 - 52nd Pick // New England Patriots) - YouTube
 
Collins fared very well at this year's scouting combine.

According to NFL.com, in addition to his 40-yard dash time, which ranked fourth among linebackers, Collins placed among the top five at his position in the three-cone drill and 60-yard shuttle.

Additionally, Collins led all linebackers in both the vertical leap and broad jump, demonstrating the sort of leg strength that helps him explode off the line of scrimmage.


2013 NFL combine Jamie Collins 11'7" broad jump - YouTube

Jamie Collins Southern Miss - YouTube

a few highlights...funny...the team went 0-12 but the crazy haters call him a dog...

Ultimate Jamie Collins Highlights (NFL Draft 2013 - 52nd Pick // New England Patriots) - YouTube

Yea - I really like his base and as he develops, I think that he is going to make a strong impact on this team. I like Dobson as someone who, if he takes to the playbook well, could really fly off of the charts.
 
so far the pats have filled most of there needs I don't think they got any stars I am hoping am wrong on that and only time will tell,

Jamie Collins I see him as more of a 3rd down coverage LB then a true pass rusher and that's not a bad thing if that's the way it turns out because LB coverage was a big hole on the pats defense last year,

Aaron Dobson I think could be a good mid level WR and a nice #4 or 5 opt for Brady am hoping he turns into more then that but he's the one pick so far that IMO will start and have some type of impact as a rookie,

Logan Ryan he brings good dept at DB now the pats can just cut Dowling and they have there #4 CB

Duron Harmon I don't know much about him but when BB makes WTF picks for the most part they turn out to be good players
 
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