Patriots Player Departure LG Michael Jordan released

[TinhWoodhead]

“I’m back”

 

[upstater1]

I’m perfectly fine with holding Wolf accountable for decisions he’s made since taking over, but I think it’s too early to judge his draft picks. I’m not fine with people blaming him for Belichick’s decisions. On the one hand you guys cite Kraft saying 5 years ago that he wanted to see more collaboration. At the same time you guys ignore Kraft saying Belichick always had total control. Which is it. Is he a liar, or does he have credibilit?. IMO he wanted Belichick to listen more, but he always had final say, his assistants never had the authority to overrule him. And had Belichick been held to the same standards you guys are trying to hold Wolf to he would have been fired half way through his first season.

Which is it?

Ask Kraft.

Those statements contradict.

I think Kraft has proven he's a liar in that documentary. I have no doubt about that. The guy will say anything. He said things that were proven false.

 

[signbabybrady]

 

[sb1]

I’m perfectly fine with holding Wolf accountable for decisions he’s made since taking over, but I think it’s too early to judge his draft picks. I’m not fine with people blaming him for Belichick’s decisions. On the one hand you guys cite Kraft saying 5 years ago that he wanted to see more collaboration. At the same time you guys ignore Kraft saying Belichick always had total control. Which is it. Is he a liar, or does he have credibilit?. IMO he wanted Belichick to listen more, but he always had final say, his assistants never had the authority to overrule him. And had Belichick been held to the same standards you guys are trying to hold Wolf to he would have been fired half way through his first season.

Correct. Literally Bill's job as GM to sign off on any football related decision. As GM could be collaborative or not as he wanted to when it came to personnel decisions.

 

[sb1]

Which is it?

Ask Kraft.

Those statements contradict.

I think Kraft has proven he's a liar in that documentary. I have no doubt about that. The guy will say anything. He said things that were proven false.

I don't think they contradict. Bill had total control cause that was literally his job. Kraft can say he wanted Bill to be more collaborative but that didn't mean anyone can veto anything Bill decided to do. He still had control.

 

[Family]

The only thing a Pro Bowl selection does is drive up the price of exercising the option. If a player makes one Pro Bowl the value of his option is worth the transition tag for his position, if he makes two or more the contract value is equal to his position's franchise tag.

That's exactly what I said.

The transition tag means a quarterback loses any benefit from a rookie contract.

 

[Family]

The overwhelming sentiment in this forum was to sign either one of those guys

Wozzy even went so far as to criticize him for letting Thornton go, and he actually was a massive bust.

Yes, the overwhelming sentiment was to sign one of the guys: Aiyuk.

There was a loud no from many posters on our reactionary "we need someone/anyone" board concerning paying as much as Wolf was willing to go for Ridley. Considering Ridley's past, it was absurd. Especially with a rookie QB.

And to be fair Wozzy, who I often disagree with, was strongly against signing both.

Whether or not Wolf remains, besides Maye, I think it's safe to say, from what is known now, he's had a horrible year.

You're just good with that.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Which is it?

Ask Kraft.

Those statements contradict.

I think Kraft has proven he's a liar in that documentary. I have no doubt about that. The guy will say anything. He said things that were proven false.

Then he was lying when he said he wanted more collaboration.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Yes, the overwhelming sentiment was to sign one of the guys: Aiyuk.

There was a loud no from many posters on our reactionary "we need someone/anyone" board concerning paying as much as Wolf was willing to go for Ridley. Considering Ridley's past, it was absurd. Especially with a rookie QB.

And to be fair Wozzy, who I often disagree with on this, was strongly against signing both.

Whether or not Wolf remains, besides Maye, I think it's safe to say, from what is known now, he's had a horrible year.

You're just good with that so far.

Absolutely untrue. There were many posters here who wanted Ridley. It took 5 bad years from Belichick before I was ok with letting him go.

 

[Family]

Absolutely untrue. There were many posters here who wanted Ridley. It took 5 bad years from Belichick before I was ok with letting him go.

Ok so I don't want posters as GM either.

Is that your argument that he's done a good job?

That he's at the level of arm chair amateurs?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Yes, the overwhelming sentiment was to sign one of the guys: Aiyuk.

Glad Aiyuk did the Pats a solid and rejected them. And it has nothing to do with his eventual ACL tear. He’s not that player that can walk onto any team and be a game changer for that type of money. Also looks scheme dependent. When he finally reported, he was out of shape and terrible aside from one game this season.

 

[maust]

That's exactly what I said.

The transition tag means a quarterback loses any benefit from a rookie contract.

That might have been what you meant but it isn't what you said. What you said was:

I'm not 100% sure of the rules, but didn't Mac Jones lose the 5th year because he made the Pro Bowl ?

I was attempting to clarify the impact Pro Bowl selections have on the value of a 5th year option. In the case of Mac Jones and his one Pro Bowl selection what it meant was the cost of ecercising the option would have been equal to the value of a the transition tag for his position. Neither side 'loses' the 5th year option when a player makes a Pro Bowl, all it does is establish the cost of exercising the option. The player isn't playing under the franchise tag, he's still on his rooke deal. It's just the formula the league uses for determining the 5th year's cost. The player gains by virtue of making the Pro Bowl, otherwise the value of the option is less and is established using a sliding scale based on number of snaps. Theorectically the value could be as low as the contract of the 20th ranked contract at his position so a Pro Bowl selection adds significantly to the cost of the option.

 

[upstater1]

Then he was lying when he said he wanted more collaboration.

He might've been. How are you so sure which is the lie? Maybe he was lying when he said Bill is always in charge?

Bill used to be in charge.

Then Kraft said, we're going to change the way things work around here.

 

[upstater1]

I don't think they contradict. Bill had total control cause that was literally his job. Kraft can say he wanted Bill to be more collaborative but that didn't mean anyone can veto anything Bill decided to do. He still had control.

This is illogical nonsense.

If nothing changed, nothing changed, Kraft said they were going to do things differently.

I can't believe there are people here that think Bill did all the scouting prior to 2020.

 

[archstanton543]

This is illogical nonsense.

If nothing changed, nothing changed, Kraft said they were going to do things differently.

I can't believe there are people here that think Bill did all the scouting prior to 2020.

No one said he did all the scouting.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Which is it?

Ask Kraft.

Those statements contradict.

I think Kraft has proven he's a liar in that documentary. I have no doubt about that. The guy will say anything. He said things that were proven false.

You do realize you were proven wrong about Klemm blaming Wolf, right? Another poster linked to the article where Klemm blamed Groh for not being able

He might've been. How are you so sure which is the lie? Maybe he was lying when he said Bill is always in charge?

Bill used to be in charge.

Then Kraft said, we're going to change the way things work around here.

What I am saying is that you can’t claim credibility for what he says when it suits you, either he’s a liar or credible. It’s just like what you guys are doing with Belichick, if it was a good decision Bill made it, if it wasn’t Wolf made it. I will hold Wolf accountable for the decisions he’s making, good or bad, and the same went for Belichick.

 

[Family]

That might have been what you meant but it isn't what you said. What you said was:



I was attempting to clarify the impact Pro Bowl selections have on the value of a 5th year option. In the case of Mac Jones and his one Pro Bowl selection what it meant was the cost of ecercising the option would have been equal to the value of a the transition tag for his position. Neither side 'loses' the 5th year option when a player makes a Pro Bowl, all it does is establish the cost of exercising the option. The player isn't playing under the franchise tag, he's still on his rooke deal. It's just the formula the league uses for determining the 5th year's cost. The player gains by virtue of making the Pro Bowl, otherwise the value of the option is less and is established using a sliding scale based on number of snaps. Theorectically the value could be as low as the contract of the 20th ranked contract at his position so a Pro Bowl selection adds significantly to the cost of the option.

This is a cap discussion.

So are you saying that BOTH ways the 5th year rookie cap would be EXACTLY the same?

As I understood it, Mac Jones had lost a lot of his rookie contract benefit by making the pro bowl.

 

[jdlboot14]

I have respect for you too, that's why I'm wondering what the heck is going on.

This is all I'm going to say: Chuk Okorafor, Keith Leverett, Michael Jordan, Demontrey Jacobs, Vederian Lowe, Tyrone Wheatley, Caeden Wallace, Sidy Sow, Atonio Mafi, Layden Robinson, Zachary Thomas

Sure that's a massive list of JAG's.
However, at some point, you have to look at coaching & scheme. If Scar had 11 guys - who were decent draft prospects or on previous NFL teams, could he field a serviceable NFL OL? The answer has been proven - YES - time and time again.

This staff has no clue what they're doing - on either side of the ball. And no, the GM has not helped matters either.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Continuity? What continuity?

Exactly!

 

[upstater1]

You do realize you were proven wrong about Klemm blaming Wolf, right? Another poster linked to the article where Klemm blamed Groh for not being able


What I am saying is that you can’t claim credibility for what he says when it suits you, either he’s a liar or credible. It’s just like what you guys are doing with Belichick, if it was a good decision Bill made it, if it wasn’t Wolf made it. I will hold Wolf accountable for the decisions he’s making, good or bad, and the same went for Belichick.

Not sure what your answer has to do with what I said above. Seems a non-sequitir.

I was proven wrong. But it really doesn't matter. I was saying I thought Klemm was crazy for attacking Wolf. Whether it was Wolf or our pro personnel guy Groh really isn't the point. I was saying that in retrospect, Klemm doesn't seem so crazy.

I was wrong about it being Wolf. But I still stand by the general gist of what I was saying.

As for Kraft, if a guy is a liar, that's on him. Not me.

AND I readily say there are decisions that are obviously Belichick's, like Harry. But then there are people like Callahan who report internal discussions, like Belichick wanting to wait for a 3rd rd QB in '21, or preferring Jakobi over JuJu.

Are we supposed to ignore these things?

Lastly, Belichick had absolute control for 20 years. Then Kraft said he met with Belichick and that things were going to change.

We know absolutely that Kraft ignored Belichick's wishes when he reinstalled Guerrero despite the objections of the assistant coaches. There is a pattern here, as much as people want to wash it aside and ignore ot. It's actually plain and evident.

But the sequence is key. Belichick went from total control, to then being told things would be done differently, and we have Callahan using instances of when Belichick's assessment did not win the day.

Whatever the dynamic is, things changed in 2020. That much is known and acknowledged by all. It could very well be that it was expected that Bill would accede to the scout/personnel team's wishes at times, even while remaining in control.

What he couldn't do anymore is run the thing by making imperious decisions, whether that meant banning Guerrero to appease the assistant coaches or making every single personnel decision even if against the wishes of the scouts/personnel.