BB THE GOAT

[RobertWeathers]

You cant be serious in trying to justify that decision with Steven Jackson in Miami?

Very

That had to be some sort of pissing contest with Bill and god knows who?

Conspiracy theory? LOL.

That game plan made no sense. Go down to Miami and try to plow away with an over the hill scrap heap RB?

Sure it did. The numbers show it and seeing how awful the line had become protecting Tom it made complete sense

 

[Wozzy]

Wrong

2013 Foles started 10 games and went 8 - 2 with 27 TDs and 2 INTs. Nick Foles Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com


Foles passes for 373 and 3 TDs and 1 INT. Super Bowl LII - Philadelphia Eagles vs. New England Patriots - February 4th, 2018 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Thats a good day; A mouth breather would claim that Foles didnt play exceptional in that SB win.

Its takes a great QB today.

And before he got hurt in 2017, Carson Wentz was the leading candidate for MVP on the same exact team.

So in your opinion Wentz and Foles are superior players… exceptional players.

This ^ is only the mouth breathing assertion here. What happened to both Foles and Wentz on lesser teams afterwards? Oh yeah… they came crashing back to Earth.

Teams need good QB play the way they need good offensive line play, good defensive play and special teams. No different or special. Deshaun Watson and Drew Brees led the entire NFL in passing and their teams had single digit wins. Teams need a lot more than great QB play.

Foles and Wentz are average at best, surrounded by the best team in the league they’re MVP’s.

 

[Real fan 02]

Nick Foles is exceptional?

Tell us more, we need more of this sage wisdom.

Devin McCourty Discusses Possibility Of Not Playing For Patriots

If Devin McCourty decides to continue his playing career, he likely only will do so for the New England Patriots.

nesn.com

 

[Bruins29]

That missed XP...SMH

That pick to Miller... SMFH

 

[crawhammer]

Prior to 2020, the last time the Browns won a playoff game was in 1994... 26 years prior.

That was when BB was the coach and they had the best (#1) defense in the NFL... hell they didn't even have a great QB, barely "good."

Then the ESPN documentary events happened... you were probably 4 years old.

Facts and history aren't your friend.

Why is it that every time we have a conversation you make sarcastic remarks about (what you think is) my age?

The Browns had a new franchise in 1999. How often they made the playoffs has nothing to do with Belichick.

The Browns had the #1 ranked defense (points) in the NFL in 94... that's great. Stats are for losers. The last 8 games of that season they went L, W, L, W, L, W, W, L (4-4). They got crushed in the playoffs by Pittsburgh who had 238 rushing yards in the game. The last half of that season was pretty mediocre.

 

[Grogan14]

BB is such a great coach that he completely wasted a critical year of Mac Jones rookie contract, severely interfered with his QB's development, assigned 2 of his coaches to positions they were completely not qualified for, while other qualified candidates were available and set the franchise back 3 years by his intransigence and stubbornness re. hiring a competent and experienced QB coach and OC. He also passed on Lamar Jackson and Jalen Hurts (both top 5 QB's) in favor of selecting Sony Michelle and Kyle Duggar and starting a washed up Cam Newton as his QB.


You can say this was only one year, but the stupidity, arrogance and cluelessness of these mistakes impacts his legacy as some kind of genius. He is not a genius.

 

[crawhammer]

Overall point is he was QB for a losing team but has zero impact on his legacy.

This last season enhanced Brady's legacy.

You don't think Brady winning a Super Bowl immediately with another team and head coach hurts Belichick's legacy at all? You can ignore it if you'd like but there is a narrative building that Belichick can only win with Brady (because it's factual). You can't really ignore 17 division titles in 18 seasons with Brady and 0 division titles in 10 seasons with every other QB. Can you?

It's just part of the story. Obviously it doesn't fully obscure Belichick's legacy, which is still enormously impressive. But he's taking a hit with his lack of success without Brady (who overall didn't miss a beat with another team, remarkably at ages 43, 44 & 45). Arguably Brady had the best two back-to-back seasons of his career with Arians in 2020-2021. Toilet Bowles killed the mojo in 2022, so yes, really putrid coaching can drag down a team with an elite quarterback.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Why is it that every time we have a conversation you make sarcastic remarks about (what you think is) my age?

The Browns had a new franchise in 1999. How often they made the playoffs has nothing to do with Belichick.

The Browns had the #1 ranked defense (points) in the NFL in 94... that's great. Stats are for losers. The last 8 games of that season they went L, W, L, W, L, W, W, L (4-4). They got crushed in the playoffs by Pittsburgh who had 238 rushing yards in the game. The last half of that season was pretty mediocre.

You may not be aware the 1995 Cleveland Browns became the 1996 Baltimore Ravens.

 

[Real fan 02]

No, he never got either.

But he did get to a Super Bowl despite being average to poor... something we've been told here is impossible.

Oh I know just what u mean... that Chicago team had Urlacher and Briggs in that elite Defense.. Rex wasn't asked to win them the game... Mac is far better than rex..

 

[crawhammer]

Tom retired, Arian's stepped down, then Tom instantly un-retired.

Brady wanted out of Tampa Bay and he had a possible scheme going with Sean Payton and Miami but it got completely blown up by the Flores lawsuit. Also, Brady realized the Bucs weren't going to let him shake loose under any scenario so he had no choice other than going back to Tampa Bay. Ultimately Bowles killed the 2022 season for the Bucs and in the process he sucked Brady dry of any desire to continue his NFL career. The Bucs obviously will be tanking in 2023 because that's the only reason I can come up for Bowles keeping his job.

The Brady-Arians beef was over Antonio Brown, not X's and O's, so Brady would have been fine with Arians in 2022. It's become apparent that Arians stepped down due to age and health.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This last season enhanced Brady's legacy.

How? I can buy winning it in 2020 and a great comeback effort vs the Rams in 2021 but an 8-9 season and a woeful playoff performance did not help him. Again, his legacy as the GOAT was already secure.

You could actually argue he couldn't over come horrible coaching and needs good coaching to maximize his abilty.

You don't think Brady winning a Super Bowl immediately with another team and head coach hurts Belichick's legacy at all? You can ignore it if you'd like but there is a narrative building that Belichick can only win with Brady (because it's factual). You can't really ignore 17 division titles in 18 seasons with Brady and 0 division titles in 10 seasons with every other QB. Can you?

Are these rhetorical questions?

It's just part of the story. Obviously it doesn't fully obscure Belichick's legacy, which is still enormously impressive. But he's taking a hit with his lack of success without Brady (who overall didn't miss a beat with another team, remarkably at ages 43, 44 & 45). Arguably Brady had the best two back-to-back seasons of his career with Arians in 2020-2021. Toilet Bowles killed the mojo in 2022, so yes, really putrid coaching can drag down a team with an elite quarterback.

I really don't care what the media or you say what the narrative is or should be for BB or Brady for that matter. It means nothing to me.

 

[crawhammer]

You may not be aware the 1995 Cleveland Browns became the 1996 Baltimore Ravens.

************, who doesn't know that? Seriously, WTF.

If you read my entire interaction with @Wozzy then you would understand why I made that comment.

 

[RobertWeathers]

************, who doesn't know that? Seriously, WTF.

If you read my entire interaction with @Wozzy then you would understand why I made that comment.

I have no idea what you do/don't know.

His point still stands. Today's Cleveland Browns are recognized by the NFL as the same organization which existed in 1994.

 

[crawhammer]

How? I can buy winning it in 2020 and a great comeback effort vs the Rams in 2021 but an 8-9 season and a woeful playoff performance did not help him. Again, his legacy as the GOAT was already secure.

You could actually argue he couldn't over come horrible coaching and needs good coaching to maximize his abilty.

Well, I guess Brady also couldn't overcome coaching in 2002, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2017 & 2019. Because apparently every season he didn't win the Super Bowl he needed better coaching to maximize his ability but didn't get it.

This comes up all the time... a season is a failure for Brady because it didn't end with another Super Bowl ring. He has 3 more than any other player and 1 more than every franchise in the NFL. He won his 7th Super Bowl at age 43. What more could he have possibly done to prove himself? He's the GOAT and there's no debate about it until another quarterback reaches 7 rings. Especially not Mahomes who's forever down 0-2 to Brady in their most meaningful matchups.

But to answer your question... how did 2022 enhance Brady's legacy?:

NFL single season record pass attempts
NFL single season record pass completions
NFL record 19th division title
NFL record 20th postseason appearance
NFL record career game-winning drives (58)
NFL record career fourth quarter comebacks (46)

Brady's lost some mobility in the pocket, that was apparent this season, but his arm strength is there, he still has full command of the game (he excelled in no huddle and 4th quarter passing), and he can still light it up (e.g. week 17 vs CAR). He can still play and would be successful in the right situation next season (at age 46 which is ridiculous).

 

[crawhammer]

I have no idea what you do/don't know.

His point still stands. Today's Cleveland Browns are recognized by the NFL as the same organization which existed in 1994.

That's fine but as it relates to Belichick's connection to the 1999 Browns roster and staff... there is none.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Well, I guess Brady also couldn't overcome coaching in 2002, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2017 & 2019. Because apparently every season he didn't win the Super Bowl he needed better coaching to maximize his ability but didn't get it.

Every year you cite was a winning one. That is not 8-9.

With that logic I guess BB couldn't overcome average QB playoff performances in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015 and 2019.

This comes up all the time... a season is a failure for Brady because it didn't end with another Super Bowl ring. He has 3 more than any other player and 1 more than every franchise in the NFL. He won his 7th Super Bowl at age 43. What more could he have possibly done to prove himself? He's the GOAT and there's no debate about it until another quarterback reaches 7 rings. Especially not Mahomes who's forever down 0-2 to Brady in their most meaningful matchups.

But to answer your question... how did 2022 enhance Brady's legacy?:

NFL single season record pass attempts
NFL single season record pass completions
NFL record 19th division title
NFL record 20th postseason appearance
NFL record career game-winning drives (58)
NFL record career fourth quarter comebacks (46)

Brady's lost some mobility in the pocket, that was apparent this season, but his arm strength is there, he still has full command of the game (he excelled in no huddle and 4th quarter passing), and he can still light it up (e.g. week 17 vs CAR). He can still play and would be successful in the right situation next season (at age 46 which is ridiculous).

It was already secure. There was nothing left to prove. At that point it's incremental.

 

[crawhammer]

You believe in superheroes, reading you discuss Brady is like listening to a child discuss the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus all rolled into one.

You sound like someone who came up during the dynasty and never saw bad football, or understood the difference... they made it look easy, so you attributed all of it to one hero... the QB.

Matt Stafford didn't win a single playoff game in 12 years in Detroit, he comes to the Rams for one season and wins 4 playoff games including the Super Bowl. Then the salary cap and giving away draft picks like candy causes the ground beneath his feet to fall out and suddenly he's on the Lions again getting sacked 4 times a game... but the QB was wholly responsible for winning. Okay...

Don't talk calculous... you're trying to tell us the person most responsible for the winningest franchise in pro football history stumbled and bumbled his way to success and was just lucky to have found a leprechaun. 53 man rosters, hundreds of players filtering in and out, hundreds of scouts, personnel men, trainers, coaches and three phases of football all boils down to one magic player who doesn't need blocking, weapons, defense or special teams.

It's rubbish, total nonsense... this is the ultimate team sport we're talking about. Tom Brady would be the first person to tell you that your opinion, while flattering, is utter garbage.

Brother, you think Belichick is the hero most responsible for the dynasty and I think it's Brady. It all boils down to one magic head coach for you. Belichick would be the first person to tell you that your opinion, while flattering, is utter garbage.

"I always say players win games and coaches lose games" ~ Bill Belichick

 

[DarrylS]

OT thanks for the Kenny Rogers earworm

No idea WTF this means..

 

[203Pat]

Very

Conspiracy theory? LOL.

Sure it did. The numbers show it and seeing how awful the line had become protecting Tom it made complete sense

Lol it had to be a conspiracy! I don't know what Bill saw in Jackson he was far past done at that point and I don't know why he decided to make him the focal point of that gameplay. I get wanting to keep Brady and Gronk healthy but we needed to win that game for home field advantage so play the game and pull them when it was in hand.

 

[DarrylS]

Brother, you think Belichick is the hero most responsible for the dynasty and I think it's Brady. It all boils down to one magic head coach for you. Belichick would be the first person to tell you that your opinion, while flattering, is utter garbage.

"I always say players win games and coaches lose games" ~ Bill Belichick

Reminds me of Jim Kelly (HOF) in the early 90's a very good quarterback, who lost 4 consecutive Super Bowls..
Of course the metrics, rules and salary cap was much different then.. so his numbers need to be adjusted.
A player can be a great QB, absent great coaching and a great team he will just be a footnote.