Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[letekro]

You still play butler.

Yeah, between PatriotsNumero1Fan and BB, it’s a tough call, but I’m still going BB.

 

[TB_Helmet]

The only "straw" I'm grasping on to is the FACT that I'm not clairvoyant and that I know you aren't either. You don't have the first clue what would have happened or how the game would have changed if Butler played. NEITHER do I. I'm happy accepting that. You clearly aren't. You'd rather have some fantasy that Butler being on the field would have made it so Rowe wouldn't miss tackles.. So Chung wouldn't miss tackles.. That the Patriots would have been perfect..

Unlike you, I'm a realist. I'm disappointed in the loss. I'm disappointed that Butler didn't play more than on Special Teams. But there is no way to judge BB's decision without more information, so I will withhold judgement.

That's a bit of a strawman though right...nobody is saying that the Patriots would have been perfect if Butler had played. But maybe he would have affected 2 or 3 of those crushing third and fourth down conversions that the Eagles had. They scored almost every drive they had. If the (fairly significant) upgrade of Butler in any of those sub packages stops one of those drives, then our chances of winning increase.

This game was incredibly close. Having Butler in increases our chances of winning by 3-5% IMO and that's all we needed.

 

[slash83]

There are only 3 explanations for the Butler benching (he basically played 95% of our snaps all season long).

1. BB knew Butler was gone next year and said i'm going with the players who will be here next year
2. Off-field issue
3. Kraft wants to resign Butler and BB is making a point

If it's 1 or 3, i'm pissed because BB put his ego ahead of the team. If it's #2 than we'll see.

Whether butler was staying or going next year had nothing to do with today’s game, that makes no sense at all.

 

[Galeb]

The only "straw" I'm grasping on to is the FACT that I'm not clairvoyant and that I know you aren't either. You don't have the first clue what would have happened or how the game would have changed if Butler played. NEITHER do I. I'm happy accepting that. You clearly aren't. You'd rather have some fantasy that Butler being on the field would have made it so Rowe wouldn't miss tackles.. So Chung wouldn't miss tackles.. That the Patriots would have been perfect..

Unlike you, I'm a realist. I'm disappointed in the loss. I'm disappointed that Butler didn't play more than on Special Teams. But there is no way to judge BB's decision without more information, so I will withhold judgement.

LMAO. You're right, it's silly to argue that the Pats almost certainly would have given up less points if their starting CB2 played when his replacement struggled mightily.

You do know that players can't miss tackles if they're not on the field, right? LMFAO!

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

There are only 3 explanations for the Butler benching (he basically played 95% of our snaps all season long).

1. BB knew Butler was gone next year and said i'm going with the players who will be here next year
2. Off-field issue
3. Kraft wants to resign Butler and BB is making a point

If it's 1 or 3, i'm pissed because BB put his ego ahead of the team. If it's #2 than we'll see.

Lmao.
1)rediculous. By that thinking why play revis against Seattle when it was clear he was gone in the offseason?
2)wait and see. Who knows if we will get the answer with how tight lipped we are.
3)well if he was trying to make a point it blew up in his face and now Kraft will really want to bring him back.

 

[Sciz]

My problem is not that BB decide to bench Butler—although I have no f—ing clue why.

My problem is that I can't understand why he continued to keep Butler on the bench when (A) Butler is one of the better tacklers they have, and (B) one of their biggest problems was an inability to stop passes short of the sticks from being turned into first downs.

What the heck was wrong for him to decide that Butler still wasn't worth bringing in?

If it was in fact some physical limitation (as it makes the most sense to me right now), then the reason he wasn’t in there to make tackles on short passes would be because the Eagles instead would have run a different route that attacked his deep speed or change of direction or whatever the problem was. The Eagles see pregame warmups too, so if there was something drastic enough to get him benched then I assume it was bad enough that the Eagles noticed and would have immediately targeted that perceived weakness.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

He’s a stubborn **** with an ego, that’s why.

You do realize you're saying he'd rather have a moral victory than another Lombardi?

 

[FCB02062]

Just waiting for the Schefter hit piece on butler

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Yeah, between PatriotsNumero1Fan and BB, it’s a tough call, but I’m still going BB.

The guy has one big ego. Yes playing Richards over butler's a smart move.

 

[SalemPats]

If it was in fact some physical limitation (as it makes the most sense to me right now), then the reason he wasn’t in there to make tackles on short passes would be because the Eagles instead would have run a different route that attacked his deep speed or change of direction or whatever the problem was. The Eagles see pregame warmups too, so if there was something drastic enough to get him benched then I assume it was bad enough that the Eagles noticed and would have immediately targeted that perceived weakness.

I can't see that being true. Gilmore and Rowe didn't know Butler wasn't starting. After Rowe was getting torched by Jeffrey why wouldn't you put in Butler to cover Smith and Agholor as Rowe is not quick enough. This was either an egomaniacal move or there is something that happened off the field that we don't know about

 

[DropKickFlutie]

If it was in fact some physical limitation (as it makes the most sense to me right now), then the reason he wasn’t in there to make tackles on short passes would be because the Eagles instead would have run a different route that attacked his deep speed or change of direction or whatever the problem was. The Eagles see pregame warmups too, so if there was something drastic enough to get him benched then I assume it was bad enough that the Eagles noticed and would have immediately targeted that perceived weakness.

Makes zero sense as without Butler they gave up 583 yards and 41 points. Richards was pure garbage, should never play a single snap

 

[Soliel]

It’s got to be that he was still ill or some off field issue.

 

[luuked]

e


How did those match ups work out for us? Guess Malcolm wouldn't have helped shift coverage responsibilities? Maybe King would have helped tonight?

I dont think anything would have shifted that much. Certainly not to the point where Richards was affected. Personally I liked M. Flowers more than King and Richards but what do I know..

Some people are saying that Butler would have made that tackle Bademosi screwed up but completely miss that the Eagles would have drawn a totally different play if Butler was on the field instead.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Whether butler was staying or going next year had nothing to do with today’s game, that makes no sense at all.

If that were the logic, Chris Long shouldn't have played against Atlanta last year.

 

[SalemPats]

Lmao.
1)rediculous. By that thinking why play revis against Seattle when it was clear he was gone in the offseason?
2)wait and see. Who knows if we will get the answer with how tight lipped we are.
3)well if he was trying to make a point it blew up in his face and now Kraft will really want to bring him back.

i'm trying to come up with options on why BB didn't play Butler. It's either he wanted to screw him over because he's gone or there was an off-field issue. Let's be honest it had nothing to do with strategy

 

[TbSB5]

Dumb ass.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Some of you guys need to sleep this one off and reevaluate tomorrow. Has Bill, ever. I mean ever held a grudge against anyone that went against the best interest of the team? There's more to the story and if it helps you sleep tonight thinking bills ego lost us the game, more power to you. Revisit tomorrow, we'll probaby never know why but I know it's not Bill holding a grudge, that's just dumb.

 

[Galeb]

You only believe it's inconsistent because you don't have all the information and are insisting on making a judgement without it. .

I actually explicitly stated that there was a small chance that there was some truly bizarre explanation... yet nobody has presented one. The information that I do have is that Butler cried pregrame, played on special teams and didn't play a single snap on D. If Butler didn't play ST, there could be many explanations. Since he did, I have yet to hear or imagine a plausible explanation.

Here's a fun fact. In any complex situation, you will never have ALL of the information. We MUST make judgements sometimes, but must remain open to the possibility that we are wrong. I'll tell you, though, you arguing that others need to be more open minded is ****ing hilarious.

 

[JDot]

Such a head scratching situation.

 

[DaBruinz]

Totally wrong and the regular season and the usage of Richards in the very same sub packages is proof of that. But whatever works for the narrative.

Sorry, luuked, but I don't believe that the snap counts support your claims.. I believe after the Chiefs debacle, Richards was more of a sub for Chung than going in on sub-packages WITH Chung. The Patriots tried (and failed miserably) to mold Richards into a future Chung, but Richards just doesn't seem to be able to put it together.

New England Patriots 2017 Snap Counts | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Unfortunately, the Patriots were in a bad position tonight. They only had 4 CBs dressed (Gilmore, Rowe, Butler, Bademosi). Remove Butler and limit Bademosi to playing just STs in the 1st half and you're FORCED to put Richards on the field in Dime Situations. Situations that, normally, would see Jones or Rowe out there, not Richards.

EDIT: BTW, how can I be "totally wrong" when I stated that Howe was started over Butler, which was the case?