Report: Patriots Want To Trade Up In First Round, Draft Wide Receiver

[mgteich]

My bad with regard to Kelly. He is only a potential starter for 2014.

I understand that others disagree. However, we have a possible 2o15 DT of corp with a rotation of Wilfork, Armstead and Siliga (an ERFA and almost certainly staying), with Jones and Vellano (or a late round pick as a backup). I have ZERO problem with drafting a DT late to compete with Vellano and Jones (and perhaps Armstead. I don't see why would use a high draft choice when we may be fine with what we have, especially in 2014. After all, Wilfork and Armstead might actually be healthy by mid-season 2014. Our wildcard is Kelly, who is likely to stay next year if healthy.
=======================
I would be fine with TE, SS and OG with our first 3 picks. I am also understand that we need a running back and a quarterback.

For me, I expect that the front seven will be better with the return of Kelly, Wilfork, (Armstead), and Mayo.
I think the secondary will be better with the addition of Revis and Browner (perhaps with Ryan moving to safety). We will still add free agents at LB and DE. As is the case every year, if we have the opportunity to pick up a stud lineman in the first 50 picks we will do so. I suspect that our definitions might be different than those of Belichick.

Kelly is a free agent after this season
Silaga is a free agent after this season
Jones is not a starting caliber DT
Vellano is not a starting caliber DT, and may not be a backup caliber DT
Armstead may be an All-Pro. He may also be less than NFL caliber
Wilfork's deal is, essentially, a one year deal with an option, because of his injury

I think you defined need differently than some others will.

 

[Deus Irae]

My bad with regard to Kelly. He is only a potential starter for 2014.

I understand that others disagree. However, we have a possible 2o15 DT of corp with a rotation of Wilfork, Armstead and Siliga (an ERFA and almost certainly staying), with Jones and Vellano (or a late round pick as a backup). I have ZERO problem with drafting a DT late to compete with Vellano and Jones (and perhaps Armstead. I don't see why would use a high draft choice when we may be fine with what we have, especially in 2014. After all, Wilfork and Armstead might actually be healthy by mid-season 2014. Our wildcard is Kelly, who is likely to stay next year if healthy.
=======================
I would be fine with TE, SS and OG with our first 3 picks. I am also understand that we need a running back and a quarterback.

For me, I expect that the front seven will be better with the return of Kelly, Wilfork, (Armstead), and Mayo.
I think the secondary will be better with the addition of Revis and Browner (perhaps with Ryan moving to safety). We will still add free agents at LB and DE. As is the case every year, if we have the opportunity to pick up a stud lineman in the first 50 picks we will do so. I suspect that our definitions might be different than those of Belichick.

You may have no problem with it, but the Patriots could, quite conceivably, need two new starting DTs by 2015. Hell, if Wilfork can't come back, or his comeback is a much slower one than would be expected, the Patriots will need a new starting DT for 2014.

Meanwhile, the backup QB position is a complete non-issue until 2015. And, by complete non-issue, I mean that there is 0% issue, unless a trade moving Mallet is made.

 

[mgteich]

We have different understanding of what the draft is about.

If 2015 needs mean nothing (e.g. QB), then we really will have difficulty discussing reasonable draft priorities. Those who have us drafting a QB or RB (including Kiper) have much different ideas.

Obviously, we can plan for the possibility that Wilfork, Armstead and Kelly aren't ready, and Siliga and Jones are not capable, and draft two DT's. One question is which picks in the first couple of rounds will have the most difference over the next couple of years. I think that TE, SS, OC and RB are more likely to make a difference than adding a DT or even a DE (who I favor much more than a DT).

You may have no problem with it, but the Patriots could, quite conceivably, need two new starting DTs by 2015. Hell, if Wilfork can't come back, or his comeback is a much slower one than would be expected, the Patriots will need a new starting DT for 2014.

Meanwhile, the backup QB position is a complete non-issue until 2015. And, by complete non-issue, I mean that there is 0% issue, unless a trade moving Mallet is made.

 

[Deus Irae]

We have different understanding of what the draft is about.

If 2015 needs mean nothing (e.g. QB), then we really will have difficulty discussing reasonable draft priorities. Those who have us drafting a QB or RB (including Kiper) have much different ideas.

Obviously, we can plan for the possibility that Wilfork, Armstead and Kelly aren't ready, and Siliga and Jones are not capable, and draft two DT's. One question is which picks in the first couple of rounds will have the most difference over the next couple of years. I think that TE, SS, OC and RB are more likely to make a difference than adding a DT or even a DE (who I favor much more than a DT).

First, I didn't say that 2015 means nothing. I said that there is no issue at QB until 2015. That's a completely different statement.

Second, (assuming no Mallett trade) outside of special teams (K/P) and fullback, there's probably not a single position on the team where drafting the position high (Unless a really crazy player slide were to happen) would make less sense than at the QB position For God's sake, you're worrying about the backup position in 2015.

 

[supafly]

Some comments on the most recent comments:

1. Why is it that people don't seem to get that great #1 WR's have little to do with getting their teams into the playoffs. So the question seems obvious. Why are teams in such a hurry to draft one?

2. Think about it. 10 of the 12 best #1 WR's in the league played on teams that DIDN'T make the playoffs. Clearly the relationship between success and great #1 WR's is NOT a good one.

The want/need for the game breaking WR has a lot to do with the cheap, rookie deal, so it's only natural to assume that everyone is looking for the next best thing in the draft. In that aspect, they can thrive off him for another 4-5 years on a cheap price.

As far as paying BOTH a franchise QB + franchise WR top dollar though, I couldn't agree with you more. The success just isn't there, but that makes the choice to select one in the draft that much more important in my opinion.

As far as our own team--I don't believe the rumors that we'd trade up for a WR for one second. The only guys worth trading up for are Watkins and Evans, and we're not going to risk future drafts to do that.

a. Wilfolk and Kelly are both well over 30 and coming off serious injuries who knows how well they will play this season, and neither are locks to play in 2o15.

With all 3 of Wilfork, Kelly, and Armstead coming off serious injuries and on the wrong side of 30 (sans Armstead), I agree with you that this position "could" get by for another year, but needs to be addressed soon.

b. Siliga Chris Jones, and Valano, did an admirable job filling in last season. They played way above any expectations we might have had......BUT the are what they are. They are all limited either by size, length, or athletic ability in some fashion. They are a huge asset as back ups, but become liabilities as starters.

Agreed. We certainly need some youth, speed, and upgrade in talent for now + the future. Only BB knows where that priority lies, so I won't insult anyone's intelligence and pretend to have any clue. That said, it is a position that needs addressing either this year or next--possibly one of each.

 

[patfanken]

There's no jury out. BB was completely wrong on that one. Trying to walk that back because of an injury 3 years later is weak sauce.

If you want to see where ATL failed last year, it's pretty easy:

BOTH top WRs down
Turner done as RB, Jackson injured
Clabo (OL) was cut loose, because they thought he was done
Starting center retired (2nd rounder replaced him)
Cut Abraham, thinking he was done
Left tackle Sam Baker got hurt and ended up on IR
Weatherspoon and Bierman lost to injury

So, the OL struggled, the RBs were a huge weakeness, the top two WRs were either banged up or unavailable for most of the season, the best coverage LB was on the shelf in the mid-season, the most versatile DL went on the shelf, and the two starting safeties struggled.

That wasn't all getting covered up by a 1st, 2nd and two 4ths.

First of all, having an additional 1st, 2nd, and two 4ths would have gone a LONG way to improve the unfortunate situation you describe above. But what most infuriates me about this post is the RANK hypocrisy that's evident

You seem to be so willing to make excuses for Atlanta's 2 win season based on not only some bad luck with injuries but simply bad decisions by their GM (who I think generally does a good job), yet within a few posts you condemn BB for what happened with DT's

,See my edited post above. Also, note that BB's "quality depth" failed miserably last year at the tackle position, where he was forced to try trading for players and grabbing them off the streets, and that pulling in street FAs is a part of BB's yearly strategy.

Besides being completely wrong,. You clearly have no shame. How could you possibly think you could make these 2 posts so close together and think no one would notice the double standard. You really must think we are all just idiots. The Pats lost 4 freakin' legit all pros, to go along with their other losses. The Falcons' injuries don't even come close. But lets look at it by the numbers

1. Their 2 top WR's lost 14 games between them (White & Jones). White played in 13 game, so essentially when you tell us that Atlanta lost their 2 top receivers and implied it was for most of the year, you weren't entirely truthful were you?

2. You failed to acknowledge the the Pats lost 20 game between Boyce, Thomkins, DA and Dobson, and many more when they played while limited by injuries. True its hard to compare the impact of 3 rookies plus DA's but they still made up what was 4/5th's of the Pats WR's for most of the season.

3. You make a big deal about SJackson's injury while failing to acknowledge Vereen missing 8 games and playing the rest with a cast on his wrist.

4. You bemoan the bad personnel decisions the Falcons made with RB Michael Turner, RT Tyson Clabo, and DE John Abraham, while emphasizing the bad luck with injuries to RT Sam Baker, OLB Sean Weatherspoon and DE Kroy Beirman.

Meanwhile the Pats made good personnel decisions at RB, RT, and pass rushers, and had even worse injury issues with the losses of Kelly, Wilfolk, Volmer and Mayo. BTW - it should be noted that Mayo had more tackles (55) in the 5+ games he played last season than Kroy Beirman has had in the best year of his 6 year career.

5. Then comes the worst of your crimes against honesty, is when you claim that it was BB's fault that when Kelly, Wilfolk and Armstead missed most or all of the season, and all he could come up with was Siliga, Chris Jones, and Vellano. Even though the Sopoaga trade was a washout, it was universally lauded when it happened, but I guess in your twisted world its an example of how BB "failed miserably"

BTW- The run D improved a lot over the last quarter of the season. It improved to point that the team that allowed the fewest rushing yards per game in the playoffs was the NE Patriots. So maybe BB didn't botch the DT situation as badly as you state after all, eh DI.

6. Finally the FINAL numbers - 2-14 vs 12-4. OMG - how could that possibly have happened, when the Pats have such an incompetent guy making decisions for them.

BOTTOM LINE - Despite the fact Pats had many more significant injuries and time lost, the Pats managed 10 more wins than the team you want to make excuses for. To think that having an additional 4 relatively high draft picks WOULDN'T have made a difference in the Falcons season is lunacy. In fact its a perfect object lesson in WHY BB's advice to Dimitroff was the correct one. You don't mortgage the farm for ANY WR. That's why Julio Jones joined 10 other of the league's top #1 WR's in watching the playoffs on TV.

So when it all is revealed it seems you are nothing but a hypocrite and a fraud, but even worse, you are a bully. And just like most bullies you can dish it out, but you can't take it. That's why you will never see this post because I am among the many who are on your ignore list.....and I wear that distinction with honor.

I'm really sorry this comes out as being so adversarial. I'm sure you're a good guy when you get out from behind the key board. But the fact is reading your 2 posts, you pushed all my buttons. I hate hypocrisy and even you have to acknowledge that sometimes you bully people.

BTW - I'm never going to put you on ignore, simply because sometimes I enjoy your contributions to the discourse, and as you know I'm a big enough man to even "like" your posts, when I think they hit the mark. I wish you would just stop being a such a jackhole sometimes like in this thread.

OK, the rant is over.

 

[manxman2601]

right...draft a running back when your center and right guard can't crack open a can of soda never mind a running lane...this idea is almost as dumbfoundingly idiotic as the Johnny Football "rumour".

If Football Outsiders is to be believed, we had the best run blocking OL in the NFL last year by a fairly big margin.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

[Joker]

If Football Outsiders is to be believed, we had the best run blocking OL in the NFL last year by a fairly big margin.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

If my eyes and ESPN post game stats are to be believed then THIS would seem to contradict "Outsiders" by a considerable amount...the most important game of the season and THIS is "best!!!!" ?

[url=http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=340119007]New England Patriots vs. Denver Broncos - Box Score - January 19, 2014 - ESPN[/URL]

rushing 1st downs...FOUR
Ridley...5 carries...17 yards
Blount..5 carries...SIX yards
Brady...sacked twice...66.8 QB rating
"
DENVER — Peyton Manning didn't have to outduel Tom Brady in the AFC championship game Sunday. The Broncos' defense made sure of that.

Another Manning vs. Brady postseason classic never materialized because the Broncos' defense stuffed the run, pressured Brady at critical moments and took advantage of his ill-timed inaccuracy.

Guess "Outsiders" missed THIS game...THE MOST IMPORTANT GAME OF THE SEASON. The O line, in particular, center and RG, played abysmally. THAT is NOT "best" that is fecal matter.

 

[manxman2601]

If my eyes and ESPN post game stats are to be believed then THIS would seem to contradict "Outsiders" by a considerable amount...the most important game of the season and THIS is "best!!!!" ?

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=340119007

rushing 1st downs...FOUR
Ridley...5 carries...17 yards
Blount..5 carries...SIX yards
Brady...sacked twice...66.8 QB rating
"
DENVER — Peyton Manning didn't have to outduel Tom Brady in the AFC championship game Sunday. The Broncos' defense made sure of that.

Another Manning vs. Brady postseason classic never materialized because the Broncos' defense stuffed the run, pressured Brady at critical moments and took advantage of his ill-timed inaccuracy.

Guess "Outsiders" missed THIS game...THE MOST IMPORTANT GAME OF THE SEASON. The O line, in pareticular, center and RG, played abysmally . THAT is NOT "best" that is fecal matter.

Pretty much everyone sucked in that game. That suggests a massive failure on the part of the coaching staff.

 

[goheels22002]

Who's Doing It Right? Bleacher Report Turns Knowing Fans Into Reporters | Forbes

Started by four guys who went to high school together in Menlo Park, CA, Bleacher Report's claim to fame is using local nimrods to provide information on sports teams. B/R is nice for its navigation and interesting lists and rumor stories, but it is not the source for insider information. If anything, it's a place to plant a rumor and sandbag other teams.

Now that the Pats had the big QB prospects in for interviews, and planted this rumor about WRs at Bleacher Report, it's a safe bet that the other 31 teams are running around like schoolgirls trying to get the guys Belichick wants. Prediction: DE Jadeveon Clowney will drop to 29 and right into Darth Hoodie's lap!

 

[Ring 6]

9. And to Andy who wondered why we are all so interested in DT's when we seem to have so many them coming back, here are a few reasons

a. Wilfolk and Kelly are both well over 30 and coming off serious injuries who knows how well they will play this season, and neither are locks to play in 2o15.

But they are here, so they are in the plans. At least Wilfork is because we committed big money.
There is a big difference between what you would do if you are a fan who doesn't know the health status and plan for Wilfork (and Kelly) and if you are the team and you have that knowledge.
Fans want to draft based upon 'what if he isn't ready' and the team needs to draft based upon the answer to that question.

b. Siliga Chris Jones, and Valano, did an admirable job filling in last season. They played way above any expectations we might have had......BUT the are what they are.

But they are what they played not what fans expectations were. Again, an approach I disagree with. We expected them to not be as good as they are, so maybe they aren't. Whether fans were surprised or not means little compared to how they actually play.

They are all limited either by size, length, or athletic ability in some fashion. They are a huge asset as back ups, but become liabilities as starters.

Siliga played extremely well as a starter. Jones showed he can play a role. Vellano is an end of the bench guy but will be 6th on the depth chart.
Why would you draft a starter because your backups are good backups and maybe not good starters?

c. So with Kelly and Wilfolk's age and infirmities making them short term assets at best, and the rest being somewhat limited as guys with elite potential, there is a desperate need for the Pats to get younger and more talented in the interior of the DL.

They are getting younger with Armstead, Siliga and Jones.
This team has much more immediate needs that drafting in a position of great depth, with young depth because the starters are aging.
If Wilfork and/or Kelly are not here in 2015 and the youngsters don't develop DT can be addressed in 2015 FA or the draft. I'd like to use our high picks on players who can make the team better this year.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually, it's hardly that cut and dry. I will agree on the point that BB's evaluation of Baldwin was incorrect. However trading 5 picks for 1 is a very risky endeavor. Julio Jones is a stud player when healthy, but the risk of putting all your eggs in one basket became apparent in 2013:

Trouble really hit Monday night: The Falcons had their pants pulled down at home by the Jets on Monday Night Football and lost on a last second field goal, 30-28. Twelve hours later, the 1-4 season turned into an absolute disaster: Jones was out for the season with a foot injury.
Say goodnight, Atlanta.

Source:
http://thebiglead.com/2013/10/10/di...-for-julio-jones-in-the-2011-draft-day-trade/

Atlanta ended last season 4-12 and have a lot of holes to fill. Holes that could have been filled by 5 wisely exercised draft picks for instance.

The advice wasn't about Baldwin, it was about the silliness of trading so much for one player, one WR. It was good advice Dimitroff should have taken.

 

[jmt57]

I don't really watch college sports, so I want to ask is this player a good wide receiver ? .

http://nesn.com/2014/04/report-patriots-want-to-trade-up-in-first-round-draft-wide-receiver/

More discussion answering that question on Benjamin (and the other player mentioned in that article, Marqise Lee) can be found here, in the Draft Forum:

Kelvin Benjamin blows off workout | Patriots Draft Talk | PatsFans.com

Marqise Lee | Patriots Draft Talk | PatsFans.com

 

[patfanken]

But they are here, so they are in the plans. At least Wilfork is because we committed big money.
There is a big difference between what you would do if you are a fan who doesn't know the health status and plan for Wilfork (and Kelly) and if you are the team and you have that knowledge.
Fans want to draft based upon 'what if he isn't ready' and the team needs to draft based upon the answer to that question.

But they are what they played not what fans expectations were. Again, an approach I disagree with. We expected them to not be as good as they are, so maybe they aren't. Whether fans were surprised or not means little compared to how they actually play.

Siliga played extremely well as a starter. Jones showed he can play a role. Vellano is an end of the bench guy but will be 6th on the depth chart.
Why would you draft a starter because your backups are good backups and maybe not good starters?

They are getting younger with Armstead, Siliga and Jones.
This team has much more immediate needs that drafting in a position of great depth, with young depth because the starters are aging.
If Wilfork and/or Kelly are not here in 2015 and the youngsters don't develop DT can be addressed in 2015 FA or the draft. I'd like to use our high picks on players who can make the team better this year.

Andy, I think you make a good case for your position. Nothing there that I really disagree with. However here's why I think I'm so adamant about getting that DT, even with all the points you made, (assuming there's a DT worth picking at that point).

You see I'm not looking to just fill the position, I'm looking for someone who could be a true difference maker in the interior of the DL. Its based on my belief that in today's NFL, the ability to find guys who can create instant pressure up the middle is as rare a commodity as finding a true franchise QB. So if the opportunity arises you simply can't pass it up.

Hageman is the poster child of that kind of potential, and because its so rare, I think he's worth the downside risk his negatives bring to the table. I admit he's definitely not the safest pick , but certainly with the highest upside.

Tuitt - I warm to him more with each passing week. looking at some 2012 tape he seems more athletic and explosive than pre-injury. So he adds the possibility of being able to play DE in a 4-3. If he was BB's choice, I'd also infer that BB might be looking to go back more 3-4 alignments, since Tuitt's ideal position would seem to be a 3-4 DE. - He maybe considered a reach by some, but again a lot of upside and position flexibility, with less risk than Hageman

Jernigan - I have to admit since most early mocks had him going in the teens, I haven't bothered to look at him closely so I really have no great opinion on him yet, beyond what others say, which is positive.

Nix- He's I guy I definitely pass on because he WOULD be redundant because he doesn't add the explosive pocket pushing I'm looking for. OTOH, if it was 2004 again, he'd be at the top of my list.

So getting back on point, I agree that given who is on the roster, the Pats should be OK at DT for this season. But I think OK isn't good enough when this draft offers enough DL depth that might give the Pats a crack at the kind of high end DT talent that they might not get in the future drafting this low. So I guess when it comes down to it, it's this rare opportunity that make me willing to add something the Pats don't currently have on the roster (or at least can't count on).

Who knows, come draft day, it might just be a moot point.

 

[ripatsfan91]

I would rather grab Interior OL or TE earlier than DT and potentially trade up in the third for Easley if he is still around and if not pick DaQuan Jones from PSU. Both are bigger needs than DL IMO.

Ideal:
1st: Bitino/Su'a-Filo/Martin OL
2nd: Niklas/ASJ TE
3rd: Easley/Jones DL
4th: Christian Jones/Tripp LB
4th: Antone Exum DB VT
6th: Burton TE
6th: BPA
7th: BPA

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, I think you make a good case for your position. Nothing there that I really disagree with. However here's why I think I'm so adamant about getting that DT, even with all the points you made, (assuming there's a DT worth picking at that point).

You see I'm not looking to just fill the position, I'm looking for someone who could be a true difference maker in the interior of the DL. Its based on my belief that in today's NFL, the ability to find guys who can create instant pressure up the middle is as rare a commodity as finding a true franchise QB. So if the opportunity arises you simply can't pass it up.

Hageman is the poster child of that kind of potential, and because its so rare, I think he's worth the downside risk his negatives bring to the table. I admit he's definitely not the safest pick , but certainly with the highest upside.

Tuitt - I warm to him more with each passing week. looking at some 2012 tape he seems more athletic and explosive than pre-injury. So he adds the possibility of being able to play DE in a 4-3. If he was BB's choice, I'd also infer that BB might be looking to go back more 3-4 alignments, since Tuitt's ideal position would seem to be a 3-4 DE. - He maybe considered a reach by some, but again a lot of upside and position flexibility, with less risk than Hageman

Jernigan - I have to admit since most early mocks had him going in the teens, I haven't bothered to look at him closely so I really have no great opinion on him yet, beyond what others say, which is positive.

Nix- He's I guy I definitely pass on because he WOULD be redundant because he doesn't add the explosive pocket pushing I'm looking for. OTOH, if it was 2004 again, he'd be at the top of my list.

So getting back on point, I agree that given who is on the roster, the Pats should be OK at DT for this season. But I think OK isn't good enough when this draft offers enough DL depth that might give the Pats a crack at the kind of high end DT talent that they might not get in the future drafting this low. So I guess when it comes down to it, it's this rare opportunity that make me willing to add something the Pats don't currently have on the roster (or at least can't count on).

Who knows, come draft day, it might just be a moot point.

I think we are looking at it from different sides. I am talking need, and you are looking at the impact of the player you want to take.
I'm not so sure I see a real game changer there. I think with Jones, Armstead, Kelly and moving CHandler Jones inside in sub packages we have more inside pressure generators on the roster than I can remember in years.
I get your point though,if there were a player on the board who could be a dominant inside rusher, there is a ton of value there, regardless of need.

As an aside, the best thing, IMO, about this offseason has been transforming the corner position to be able to take away the part of the passing game that a rush has no impact on.
The league has moved more and more to getting receivers open early to where even the best pass rush in the league is meaningless on those plays. The corners we have now are the best group I've seen at being able to take away the short stuff that a pass rush cannot do anything to prevent.

 

[patfanken]

As an aside, the best thing, IMO, about this offseason has been transforming the corner position to be able to take away the part of the passing game that a rush has no impact on.
The league has moved more and more to getting receivers open early to where even the best pass rush in the league is meaningless on those plays. The corners we have now are the best group I've seen at being able to take away the short stuff that a pass rush cannot do anything to prevent.

No question about the CB's. This is the best 5 deep group in my memory, and you are right. The best way to attack today's offenses is to control the short passing game, with good press/man or 4/5 under physical zone.

But at the same time interior pocket pressure does 2 things that are critical. First it forces the QB to get the ball out quickly and thus right into the strength of your secondary. Second it keeps the QB from stepping up and going deep, which carries more risk. A 3rd reason would be it forces your QB to run into the outside pressure, but that's actually less important than the first 2 IMO.

Andy, we are entering an era where you can't have too many positionally flexible DB's and speed LB's. I think we are going to have to think without the traditional position labels. Its all going to be rather amorphous, with combination of creating advantageous individual match ups and the ability to disguise your intentions being key to playing successful D.

Guys like Shazier, KPL. TSmith and even to a lesser extent Jamie Collins are a new breed of yet to be labelled "hybrid players" who's rare athletic ability, size, and skill set has been mandated by these prolific pass orientated offenses. 20 years ago Shazier would have been viewed as a questionable tweener. Most likely they would have tried to make him a SS, and if that failed he probably would have been out of luck. As athletically gifted as he is, he would have been a guy without position, destined to play ST's, and certainly not a 1st round choice. Unlike Brandon Spikes, who was a guy 20 years too late, Shazier and those like him are right on time.

That's why even though I really want to find that high end DT, I would be OK with Shazier, because like my dream DT, I would expect that he could step in and create some great match ups and be an impact player in only 20-30 snaps a game, without ever having to start a game. And if we don't get Shazier, I still want to draft one of his clones later on, like KPL, and develop him into the "hybrid to be named later"

 

[mgteich]

Not many here would be disappointed with the drafting of Tuitt or Hageman.

Andy, I think you make a good case for your position. Nothing there that I really disagree with. However here's why I think I'm so adamant about getting that DT, even with all the points you made, (assuming there's a DT worth picking at that point).

You see I'm not looking to just fill the position, I'm looking for someone who could be a true difference maker in the interior of the DL. Its based on my belief that in today's NFL, the ability to find guys who can create instant pressure up the middle is as rare a commodity as finding a true franchise QB. So if the opportunity arises you simply can't pass it up.

Hageman is the poster child of that kind of potential, and because its so rare, I think he's worth the downside risk his negatives bring to the table. I admit he's definitely not the safest pick , but certainly with the highest upside.

Tuitt - I warm to him more with each passing week. looking at some 2012 tape he seems more athletic and explosive than pre-injury. So he adds the possibility of being able to play DE in a 4-3. If he was BB's choice, I'd also infer that BB might be looking to go back more 3-4 alignments, since Tuitt's ideal position would seem to be a 3-4 DE. - He maybe considered a reach by some, but again a lot of upside and position flexibility, with less risk than Hageman

Jernigan - I have to admit since most early mocks had him going in the teens, I haven't bothered to look at him closely so I really have no great opinion on him yet, beyond what others say, which is positive.

Nix- He's I guy I definitely pass on because he WOULD be redundant because he doesn't add the explosive pocket pushing I'm looking for. OTOH, if it was 2004 again, he'd be at the top of my list.

So getting back on point, I agree that given who is on the roster, the Pats should be OK at DT for this season. But I think OK isn't good enough when this draft offers enough DL depth that might give the Pats a crack at the kind of high end DT talent that they might not get in the future drafting this low. So I guess when it comes down to it, it's this rare opportunity that make me willing to add something the Pats don't currently have on the roster (or at least can't count on).

Who knows, come draft day, it might just be a moot point.

 

[supafly]

But they are here, so they are in the plans. At least Wilfork is because we committed big money.

I thought the way the pact was structured proved that Wilfork could very well be in the same exact situation again next season, where a decision can be made to walk away should he not be playing up to standard again. I did not realize that it was a "big money" commitment, as you say.

Either way, this is an issue that will be decided by Belichick on draft day. I personally believe that we could use some youth and talent at the position of DL, but I agree with you if your stance is that we could get by another year by utilizing resources in a better manner.

 

[danmateus]

BB is going to draft the best available CB in the first round. For 3 resaons.
Depth for 2014.
Learn from Revis.
Replace Revis if they can't resign him.