Will the Patriots use a "spy" this week?

[PATSNUTme]

I can remember in years past when faced with a running QB, BB employed a "spy". A guy who assignment would be to stay in front of the QB at all times, Like man to man in basketball.

I'm wondering if he will employ that type of thing against Young this Sunday. If so, who will it be? Rodney? Maybe a couple of different guys depending on the situation and what D is being used.

Thoughts?

 

[pats1]

Bruschi or Vrabel.

 

[Remix 6]

i have a feelign someone will get run over

 

[BlitzFritz]

this is one of those situations where BB will likely use a 2-5 type front to keep VY in the pocket at all times. i dont know if he would use a spy as well, or as part of that formation

 

[arrellbee]

Just an idle thought and speculation. I wonder if you can combine two defensive possibilities into one tactic. Seems like both Bruschi and Vrabel are on the slow side if Young gets some clear space to maneuver. What if it's someone with the speed and quickness to both regularly blitz Young as well as fast enough to catch him if he gets out of the pocket ? Maybe Rodney ? Might not be a bad investment of a defensive resource. Or who else do you think ? Hobbes ? Hawkins ? Who has the know how to blitz and the quickness to contain Young one on one in open space ?

 

[BlitzFritz]

Just an idle thought and speculation. I wonder if you can combine two defensive possibilities into one tactic. Seems like both Bruschi and Vrabel are on the slow side if Young gets some clear space to maneuver. What if it's someone with the speed and quickness to both regularly blitz Young as well as fast enough to catch him if he gets out of the pocket ? Maybe Rodney ? Might not be a bad investment of a defensive resource. Or who else do you think ? Hobbes ? Hawkins ? Who has the know how to blitz and the quickness to contain Young one on one in open space ?

how about colvin

 

[pats1]

Just an idle thought and speculation. I wonder if you can combine two defensive possibilities into one tactic. Seems like both Bruschi and Vrabel are on the slow side if Young gets some clear space to maneuver. What if it's someone with the speed and quickness to both regularly blitz Young as well as fast enough to catch him if he gets out of the pocket ? Maybe Rodney ? Might not be a bad investment of a defensive resource. Or who else do you think ? Hobbes ? Hawkins ? Who has the know how to blitz and the quickness to contain Young one on one in open space ?

It's not just that.

If there's a body (say, Bruschi) floating around in his possible scramble lane, Young won't run there.

Hobbs wouldn't work as a spy, unless he breaks off his WR every play and goes essentially into a midfield zone.

 

[pats1]

how about colvin

If he's on an flat zone, sure, but there's still the other flat to cover.

The only two guys on the field who are naturally in the best position to spy are the ILBs. They prevent the scramble up the middle, and can force the run to the sidelines if it goes outside.

The whole idea of a spy is for someone to physically be there to discourage the scramble, not for someone to actually run down the QB. It's more bark than bite.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Just an idle thought and speculation. I wonder if you can combine two defensive possibilities into one tactic. Seems like both Bruschi and Vrabel are on the slow side if Young gets some clear space to maneuver. What if it's someone with the speed and quickness to both regularly blitz Young as well as fast enough to catch him if he gets out of the pocket ? Maybe Rodney ? Might not be a bad investment of a defensive resource. Or who else do you think ? Hobbes ? Hawkins ? Who has the know how to blitz and the quickness to contain Young one on one in open space ?

It would have to be someone who is fast enough and stong enough to bring him down. Also, a good tackler. Chad Scott?

 

[pats1]

Here's an example play from the first drive of the Patriots/Falcons game in August:

3rd and 4 NE 36

Result: Scramble, Vick, under pressure, left guard, 16 yds.
Offense: 3 WR, slot WR in motion from left to right slot, TE down off RT, Griffith lone RB.
Defense: 3-2-6 dime, Colvin/Banta-Cain/Warren line, Davis-Vrabel, Sanders playing off TE, Hobbs and Samuel pressure coverage, Wilson NB pressure coverage, Hawkins and G. Scott deep.
Blocking: Colvin rides the LT outside before spinning back inside and getting caught in traffic as Vick scrambles past
Banta-Cain gets caught in a double team with the LG and C, along with Colvin and the LT
Warren is doubled initially by the RG and RT, before the RG breaks off, Warren starts to beat the RT, and Vick scrambles
Vrabel is knocked down wide of Vick from a cut block by the RB Dunn, but when he gets up Vick starts to run
Coverage: Davis spies Vick but runs into an official right when Vick starts to scramble, slowing Davis down
Sanders comes up to clog Vick’s first scramble route, forcing him to go left, where Vick slips past Davis and others
Wilson follows the slot WR into the right flat
Hobbs clashes with his WR at the line, and then sticks with him on a short hook
Samuel is turned around downfield on a deep sideline route

Analysis: A fairly light defense, even for 3rd down. Both Banta-Cain and Warren got taken out of the play by double teams, and Colvin got caught up in traffic himself, leaving some big gaps for Vick to choose from. Sanders did a nice job of clogging one, but Davis wasn’t thinking a step ahead and instead of going ahead and clogging Vick’s next choice, he stuck with Sanders and then met traffic from an official as Vick raced for the hole. From there, a downfield block on Samuel allowed Vick to scamper for the first down.

...

On the snap, you can see that Sanders is lined up essentially as an OLB (he did that a lot in the preseason). Davis is also at MLB:



...

Once the play develops and the coverage takes away Vick's throwing options, Vick begins to look for running lanes he can take.

In the 'A' lane, Sanders is in a spy. When Vick looks right, he sees Sanders ready and waiting. Could he outrun/maneuver Sanders? Maybe. But with Vrabel and Warren also in the area, there's no use.

Davis looks to be either in a spy or a zone. If he's a spy, it's that 'B' lane he should be standing right in. Unfortunately, he's not. Vick's looks left, sees that void, and goes for it, beating Davis and Sanders for a 16-yard gain.

 

[Koettbulle]

Good post pats1. What makes me wonder is the fact that Vick likes to run to left and Sanders was covering his right and Davis looks like he is lined in front of him. Leaving his favourite lane less covered.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I don't think that Sanders will be the guy. Nothing against him but I don't think that they will use him in that situation.

 

[arrellbee]

It's not just that.

If there's a body (say, Bruschi) floating around in his possible scramble lane, Young won't run there.

Hobbs wouldn't work as a spy, unless he breaks off his WR every play and goes essentially into a midfield zone.

If he's on an flat zone, sure, but there's still the other flat to cover.

The only two guys on the field who are naturally in the best position to spy are the ILBs. They prevent the scramble up the middle, and can force the run to the sidelines if it goes outside.

The whole idea of a spy is for someone to physically be there to discourage the scramble, not for someone to actually run down the QB. It's more bark than bite.

Thanks for the great play analysis with Vick !! That is so interesting to see the breakdown and analysis.

I'll certainly defer to your judgment, but for myself I just can't quite see that somebody 'in a lane' discourages somebody like Vick - or perhaps Young. If he has any room to maneuver, I really don't think he's going to worry about somebody just being there. And, referee or not, I wouldn't give Davis much of a chance to stop Vick with Vick in the open field against him. That's why I have my personal doubts that a linebacker can do the job.

Blitzfritz - good thought on Colvin - he might be the one linebacker that, to me, might be able to do the job.

PATNUTSme - yeah, Scott is interesting.

Pats1 - one thing that was very interesting in the great example you gave was Sanders down there. Sanders might also be fast enough. Did he maybe let himself get tied up instead of staying loose to follow Vick ?

As I say, thanks for the play analysis, Pats1. That took some time to put together with the video clips and is much appreciated.

Don't know if this would fit in with what you said, but perhaps all the Patriots need to do is be extra careful to maintain their normal 3-4 discipline to slow Vick down and extra emphasis on pursuit.

 

[frankiesfly]

I think it might depend on the play also. If anyone to play that role, i could see Bruschi doing it.

 

[Digger44]

it needs to be someone quick and agile like Wilfork.

 

[zippo59]

Young is much bigger than Vick but not quite as fast.

Therefore a safety of LB might be able to be the spy more than they would if they were playing Vick.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Belichick had Vrabel basically matched up on Maurice Jones-Drew in the second half of the JAX game, so my guess would be that Vrabel will be a sort of QB spy against Young. He'll just play zone in the middle of the field, but if Vince Young takes off, so does he.

 

[BlitzFritz]

v cool pats1

keep em coming thx

 

[IcyPatriot]

Hobbs should be the spy ... he's too short for Vince to see where he is...once Vince looks down ... he'll lose a step and be toast.

 

[lutontown_fc]

Excellent thread.

Which teams employ the spy most often, or is it purely opposition based?

I would imagine the MLB or ILB would be the guy to take most of the spy assignments - Mike Vick traditionally struggles against Carolina does he not?

I wonder which guy gets assigned to spy Vick when they meet?

NM