Woody Paige on the Cassel/Cutler fiasco

[Deus Irae]

Stop saying things that conflict with the conclusion that BB is scummy and decided to hurt the Patriots and help Pioli.

Who has said anything negative about BB here, or said that he was hurting the Patriots?

 

[nowayback]

what deal? BB asked Mcdaniels...and he said he wasnt interested! who was...only KC.

even if he heard about a deal brewing...what does that mean...between 3 teams...not very likely. and then for tampa to sign cutler...you think that would be automatic...maybe a week negotiating if cutler agreed.

the question is why did mcdaniels say no? was he trying to bluff? live and learn

 

[Deus Irae]

They had the 4 year offer out to Bodden before FA even started. When Springs signed (and when he agreed which was more than a few days ago) is irrelevant, they couldn't go around offering contracts then say "well, we'll sign it when we trade Cassel, maybe in April. They didn't have the money to go shopping if they kept Cassel. They went shopping and came back with some goodies. You have no idea if Cassel would still be on the roster if they were holding out for more - no idea at all.

Considering that they didn't even meet with Bodden until after your claim, could you kindly provide a link verifying it?

As for Springs, you claiming the timeline is irrelevant is ridiculous, and you know it.

 

[Ring 6]

Were they all signed before that roster bonus came due? It seems to me that the person here who's pulling a "not account" is you.



What part of "Moss restructured and the roster bonus wasn't due for days" do you not understand?



It's not as if the Culpepper situation happened 40 years ago, or something. It happened less than a month ago. Is your memory going on you?

We have used the cap room create by both Cassel and Vrabel. How do you propose that we didnt need the cap room?
The roster bonus counts against the cap # when the cap year starts, not the day it is due. If its in the contract and the player is under contract it counts until the contract is changed or the player is not under contract.
I have no idea what you mean by the Culpepper situation.

But, keep going on your attempt to prove BB is a scumbag who cares about Pioli and the Chiefs more than the Patriots.

 

[Ring 6]

Who has said anything negative about BB here, or said that he was hurting the Patriots?

Everything you are saying does.
You are saying BB KNOWINGLY took less than he could have gotten, did it on purpose, all with the intention of helping Pioli.
If BB makes a trade with Pioli when there is a better one to be made with someone else, he is hurting the Patriots.
His job is to do what is best for the Patriots, and if he accepted 2nd best for the Patriots to help Pioli, he should be fired today, for squandering assets of his employer.

 

[Deus Irae]

We have used the cap room create by both Cassel and Vrabel. How do you propose that we didnt need the cap room?
The roster bonus counts against the cap # when the cap year starts, not the day it is due. If its in the contract and the player is under contract it counts until the contract is changed or the player is not under contract.
I have no idea what you mean by the Culpepper situation.

But, keep going on your attempt to prove BB is a scumbag who cares about Pioli and the Chiefs more than the Patriots.

Let me try to find the AndyJohnson who used to be reasonable....

How does doing a favor for Pioli and maintaining goodwill for the future by getting a #2 pick for Cassel and Vrabel hurt the Patriots or make BB a scumbag?

 

[Deus Irae]

Everything you are saying does.
You are saying BB KNOWINGLY took less than he could have gotten, did it on purpose, all with the intention of helping Pioli.
If BB makes a trade with Pioli when there is a better one to be made with someone else, he is hurting the Patriots.
His job is to do what is best for the Patriots, and if he accepted 2nd best for the Patriots to help Pioli, he should be fired today, for squandering assets of his employer.

Ok, this is just a ridiculous post.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Now does not equal then.

i'm not going to belabor the point, i just don't think bb would do pioli a solid and leave mcdaniels hanging. i just think denver and tampa came to the party too late.

 

[BelichickFan]

Considering that they didn't even meet with Bodden until after your claim, could you kindly provide a link verifying it?

February 27 (actually the first day of FA I thought that was before but the point is the same) :

The National Football Post | Bodden Heading To New England

"The Patriots brought Bodden in for a free-agent visit on the first day of free agency (Feb. 27), but Bodden departed Foxborough without a deal."

We know they tried a bigger, long term deal - they didn't have the money with Cassel on the roster.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I'm pretty sure that I've followed this more closely than anyone else on this board, as a matter of fact.

HA! He told you, Metaphors!:blahblah:

 

[Deus Irae]

February 27 (actually the first day of FA I thought that was before but the point is the same) :

The National Football Post | Bodden Heading To New England

"The Patriots brought Bodden in for a free-agent visit on the first day of free agency (Feb. 27), but Bodden departed Foxborough without a deal."

We know they tried a bigger, long term deal - they didn't have the money with Cassel on the roster.

The point is NOT the same. Come on, now.

 

[BelichickFan]

The point is NOT the same. Come on, now.

It is EXACTLY the same. When Cassel was on the roster they were talking with Bodden about a $4M deal. Moss' restructure allowed them to get Taylor. Unless they could clear a bunch more they couldn't do a deal with Bodden - the fact that it took a little longer is moot, what if they'd agreed to a contract on the 27th and then Belichick said "we'll sign it when we trade Cassel - may be a while".

And Springs is wholly relevant because under your scenario we may STILL have Cassel and be waiting for the best deal.

 

[Deus Irae]

i'm not going to belabor the point, i just don't think bb would do pioli a solid and leave mcdaniels hanging. i just think denver and tampa came to the party too late.

This is not mutually exclusive, though. That seems to be the problem with peoples' thinking on this.

 

[Deus Irae]

It is EXACTLY the same. When Cassel was on the roster they were talking with Bodden about a $4M deal. Moss' restructure allowed them to get Taylor. Unless they could clear a bunch more they couldn't do a deal with Bodden - the fact that it took a little longer is moot, what if they'd agreed to a contract on the 27th and then Belichick said "we'll sign it when we trade Cassel - may be a while".

And Springs is wholly relevant because under your scenario we may STILL have Cassel and be waiting for the best deal.

It's not the same, and you know it. There was no offer already made and you claimed there was. It's not as if there's a gray area here.

 

[Deus Irae]

HA! He told you, Metaphors!:blahblah:

I wasn't trying to "tell" Metaphors anything. I've been on this from the beginning, as I think other threads can attest.

 

[BelichickFan]

It's not the same, and you know it. There was no offer already made and you claimed there was. It's not as if there's a gray area here.

You have no idea when the 4 year offer was made. Bodden said they talked about long term deals and didn't get it done. You're right, I don't know. And neither do you. Most likely it was right then on the 27th when he was in town. To quote Jim Mora Sr. : "You think you know, but you don't. And you never will."

The reasonable timeline says they were shopping for Bodden and others on Day One (when Bodden was there) but couldn't buy anything because Cassel was still on the roster.

You still have NO IDEA if we'd have traded Cassel for more by now. What if the 3 way "deal" fell through - or do you know it was set in stone ?

 

[Ring 6]

Ok, this is just a ridiculous post.

Let me give you an analogy.

Instead of being in charge of building the best football team he can, lets say BB is in charge of Gilette Stadium. Kraft decides it is best to sell it to another team.
The Chargers offer $80mill.
The Chiefs offer $65mill.

BB sells Gilette to the Chiefs because he wants to help out his buddy Pioli and the Chiefs need a stadium badly too.

You dont see anything wrong with that?
It is exactly the same thing.

 

[Deus Irae]

You have no idea when the 4 year offer was made. Bodden said they talked about long term deals and didn't get it done. You're right, I don't know. And neither do you. Most likely it was right then on the 27th when he was in town. To quote Jim Mora Sr. : "You think you know, but you don't. And you never will."

Are you claiming that the offer was made prior to Bodden coming to town? If not, your argument is completely irrelevant.

The reasonable timeline says they were shopping for Bodden and others on Day One (when Bodden was there) but couldn't buy anything because Cassel was still on the roster.

Ok, back the truck up. Take this "reasonable" claim and match it up with your above quote. You're a smart poster. You must be able to see how ridiculous they are when matched up together.

You still have NO IDEA if we'd have traded Cassel for more by now. What if the 3 way "deal" fell through - or do you know it was set in stone ?

And this somehow undercuts my claim in what way, exactly?

Oh, right... it doesn't.

 

[Deus Irae]

Let me give you an analogy.

Instead of being in charge of building the best football team he can, lets say BB is in charge of Gilette Stadium. Kraft decides it is best to sell it to another team.
The Chargers offer $80mill.
The Chiefs offer $65mill.

BB sells Gilette to the Chiefs because he wants to help out his buddy Pioli and the Chiefs need a stadium badly too.

You dont see anything wrong with that?
It is exactly the same thing.

It's not exactly the same thing at all. It's not on the same page. It's not in the same book. It MIGHT be in the same town.

However, why the hell would I find anything "wrong with that" in your analogy? Are you seriously going to claim that Kraft wouldn't just veto that move if he didn't like it?

 

[Metaphors]

"But what if a team with an enormous amount of cap space that had Thigpen as its starting quarterback changed its mind about upgrading that spot for just a 2nd round pick in less than an additional 36 hours?"

Seriously, that's what this situation has people clinging to.

Seriously, you are missing the point entirely.

Pioli knew that Belichick had to deal Cassel. He also had to know (or reasonably suspect) that he had the best and perhaps only deal on the table. Nobody will ever know what happened between Belichick and Pioli at that point. My perspective is that Pioli knew Belichick had to make a deal and if KC pulled out, the Pats could potentially be screwed. That is leverage and leverage is power. Pioli used that power and got a deal done.

The only thing worse than your mocking attitude is your naive perspective. Of course Pioli wouldn't want Belichick to wait and use the #34 offer to drive up the price. Time was working against Pioli, but Cassel's cap hit (which KC fully accepted without renegotiation) was working for him. I'm not saying that Pioli threatened to pull the offer in 36 hours or 36 minutes or 36 days. I am saying that it is perfectly reasonable to think that Pioli told Belichick that he was prepared to walk away at any time and stick with a combination of Thigpen, the #3 pick and whatever FA QBs were available. He would have been stupid not to.

That isn't Belichick being used or doing a solid for Pioli. That is Belichick practicing effective risk management and Pioli using the circumstances to best benefit his team. Good for them. The only losers in this situation are the ones late to the party because they couldn't get their act together in time.