Will BenJarvus Green-Ellis Make the 53?

[Rob0729]

Against the 1st string Giants defense, BJGE had like 18 carries for 48 yards at one point.... So, forgive me for not being over-awed at his abilities..

I do have to say that before he rattled off that 32 yard TD run against players who most likely will be out of football come Sunday in the fourth quarter, his night was so-so.

 

[Ring 6]

You seem like a nice guy, Andy - but jeez, enough already. Watch Maroney tonight - then watch the other backs. Then tell me he does not "dance"...wait "hesitate" .....and then tell me other RB's don't "dance"...wait "hesitate" nearly as much....behind the SAME LINE. And, please do not tell me that Maroney's style leads me to fault him, where the other styles make me fault the line. I've never done that. All I am doing is stating what anyone with eyes, and open mind and no agenda understands - and that is that Maroney has issues.

You just said that you are saying what anyone with an open mind understands. Isnt that proof that your mind is closed?
Look, what I am saying is that I understand you don't like Maroney's style.
Maroney's style lends itself to thinking a poor play was his fault.
But the hesitation occurs when there is no hole. Sometimes it creates a hole opening, and no one recgonizes that he hesitates. Sometimes it results in the hole never opening, and be honest, you are looking at what was in front of him, but chalking it up to "Maroney dancing".

See you are assuming that the 'dancing' is bad. HOw is it better to run into a closed hole? Show me plays where there is a hole, and his running style prevents him from getting to and through it and then you are showing a negative about his style.
At this point all I see are people lighting him up for the way he handles a play that isnt going to gain yards. Put a player with a different style in there and you get the same result.

Its ironic that Maroney gets criticized because his running instincts are to give a play that is going nowhere a chance to develop, because fans then turn around and blame the play going nowhere on him.
Watch the plays, tell me where there was a hole that he failed to hit. What you will see is when its there he hits it, when its not he tries to find a hole elsewhere or hesitate to let it develop. I assure you the plays you criticize him for would have resulted in nothing if he did what you wanted and ran into the blockers and tacklers clogging the hole.

 

[Ring 6]

You know what i meant, why waste your time playing with semantics.

The Giants best chance to win was trumping our strength by going all out on the pass rush. We had many ways to win, but they gambled we'd play into their hands by passing almost every down.

I think we had more talent all around, if that makes you feel better.

No I dont know what you meant. You said that individual battles dont decide games, but playcalling and coaching do. But at the same time said we should have won because we were the better team.

I am under the impression you think that play design and play calling is more important than which players win the one on one battle of blocking, tackling, covering, defneding, etc. Is that what you meant? If not why would you say the individual battles are less important that balance and those other items?

 

[Ring 6]

Ah, stats. They don't tell the whole story and you know it. Anyway. Watch tonight. Watch closely. Watch opening day. Watch closely. If you open your mind - set aside the agenda and personal feelings - and watch, you will see.

Do the same.
In fact post to me every run of Maroneys where you see him hesitate or 'dance' and there was a hole to run through. Also post all of the times that a hole developed while he stutter-stepped (since this is the reason he does it you ought to be watching for when it works) and we can address them for real one by one instead of assuming everyone with an open mind agrees with you.

 

[JSn]

What I don't understand is why this is about Maroney?

BJGE will make the team for one of two reasons: Morris cut/injured or we keep 5 RB's. That said, I think if he does stay he'll scale the depth chart pretty quickly.

 

[Ring 6]

Huh?

Nobodes saying the Giants weren't effective. Yes they covered the running game and short zones adequately also. Almost any hand could have been played differently. We were plenty healthy and talented. We didn't force them to commit in a way that would have reduced the pressure, simple as that.

That Giants team sure wasn't considered unbeatable.

I just think you are missing the fact that ON THAT DAY, their DLineman owned our OLineman. On many other days that may not have happened, but on that day it did.
They didn't rush the QB well because of our play calling sequence. They rushed the QB well because our blockers did a poor job of blocking their rushers. Its as simple as that.

 

[Ring 6]

Watching the Pats-Jints preseason game,after BJGE made a nice td effort to get into the endzone,BB makes a point of running down and congratulating him....the nice run he made later in the fourth(even against the third-stringers) was just gravy.This guy is a keeper.

I would have thought that people in the BJGE corner would have predicted better than 18 carries for 48 yards (I didnt look up this stat, took it from this board, and assume its accurate) against players who will be in the NFL and an overall under 4 yard per carry average supplemented by a 32 yard run against future professional drywallers.
Other than the cumulative stats garnered vs players who will be backups or unemployed next week, what did he do that improved your opinion of him?
I'm not trying to be difficult but from the comments in this thread that, which include that he is better than Laurence Maroney, I would have expected at least 70 yards on those 18 carries, and 5+ yards per carry overall against that competition. Am I missing something?

 

[Scouse Patriot]

NFL.com would be wrong. The Patriots did not keep 5 RBs on the roster last year. They kept 4 RBs and a FB. BJGE started on the PS and wasn't activated until Maroney was IRed

I took it they included Evans in the 5. Just a small technicality of one letter, either way Evans was still a back and a versitile one at that.

 

[Ring 6]

Going 29 for 125yards, and 3TDs, at a 4.3 ypc clip will certainly help...

Will it?
It was 18-48 before the defense became guys who wont be in the league.
The 32 yard run against 11 guys who will be cut, turned a 28-92 (3.3) into those #s.

 

[Patspsycho]

24 hours until this thread is put to sleep.

 

[Deus Irae]

24 hours before this thread is put to sleep.

Only if he's cut. If he stays, you can look for a lot of this

although, to be fair, there might be some of it even if he does get cut or traded.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes without a doubt, all we can do now is sit back and wait for the roster cut down. I would be disappointed to see him get cut but the NFL is a business he would easily find a home somewhere else, to say hes a JAG is a bit absurd he has progressed nicely.

JAG is not an insult. JAG means there are a lot of guys you can get that from.
There are a lot of guys who could have a nice day running the ball in the 4th pre-season game.
There are a lot of guys who could have gained 4ypc as the primnary back against the Bills awful defense, and run 48-170, a 3.5 average in the rest of his season.
I know he's "Our JAG" and we want to root for him, but frankly, if we need a 5th RB off the waiver wire, a practice squad of the unemployment line at some point this season, we will have 20 or more like players to choose from.

 

[JSn]

Belichick TODAY on BJGE:

Asked what he likes the most about BenJarvus Green-Ellis at running back and on special teams, Belichick went to the bottom line. “I think the thing we really like about Benny is his production. When he’s had the chance to play, he’s been productive, really in all phases of the game – as a runner, as a pass protector and blocker, and as a pass catcher and as a receiver. In the kicking game, he brings that same athleticism and toughness we see when he runs the ball. He’s a pretty valuable player who is versatile, smart, tough, and when he’s had a chance to play, he’s taken advantage of it.”

 

[Deus Irae]

Belichick TODAY on BJGE:

On Chad Jackson's development: "He had a great offseason. His receiving skills have improved, his grasp of the offense is obviously better, he's still a naturally talented athlete. He's off to a good start based on the spring and we're excited to see him out there."

Never trust this bastard (referring to BB, of course, not JSN)!

 

[JSn]

Never trust this bastard (referring to BB, of course, not JSN)!

Yeah, but talking about OTA performance and talking on Cutdown's Eve aren't exactly the same thing. Plus, he calls him "Benny." Takes man-love for that...

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah, but talking about OTA performance and talking on Cutdown's Eve aren't exactly the same thing. Plus, he calls him "Benny." Takes man-love for that...

I agree (not with the man-love part, but with the rest), but I wanted to have some fun with BB and his rosy evaluations.

 

[patchick]

I agree (not with the man-love part, but with the rest)

Aw, come on, didn't you seen that enthusiastic butt pat after the 2nd TD last night?

50-50 to make the roster anyway, of course. This is a business.

 

[BradyFTW!]

JAG is not an insult. JAG means there are a lot of guys you can get that from.
There are a lot of guys who could have a nice day running the ball in the 4th pre-season game.
There are a lot of guys who could have gained 4ypc as the primnary back against the Bills awful defense, and run 48-170, a 3.5 average in the rest of his season.
I know he's "Our JAG" and we want to root for him, but frankly, if we need a 5th RB off the waiver wire, a practice squad of the unemployment line at some point this season, we will have 20 or more like players to choose from.

Exactly, JAG isn't an insult. JAGs are NFL-caliber players. In most cases, it's the type of guy that, if you have injuries, you plug him in and he fills in capably enough that you can hold things together.

Look at last night's game- there were a whole lot of stars that won't be on NFL rosters this time tomorrow. I watched Gary Russell come in for Oakland and steamroll over Seattle's D, en route to 12/59 (4.9 YPC), 2 TDs, and some slick runs.

Danny Woodhead had 18 carries for 158 yards and 2 TD, Tristan Davis got 92 yards and a TD on 3 carries, Aaron Brown got 56 yards on 11 carries, Aveion Cason got 40 yards on 6 carries, Patrick Cobbs got 54 yards and a TD on 9 carries, Dantrell Savage got 73 yards on 4 carries, Mike Goodson got 79 yards on 15 carries, Isaac Redman got 79 yards on 12 carries, DeDe Dorsey 68 yards on 13 carries, Brian Leonard got 64 yards and a TD on 9 carries, James Johnson got 55 yards on 11 carries, Bernard Scott got 43 yards on 5 carries, Allen Patrick got 50 yards on 8 carries. All of these guys had really good games, and they probably all have fans waking up this morning saying 'how can we cut this guy?' But most of them will get cut tomorrow.

Every year, a bunch of RBs do well in the fourth game of the preseason, and most of them get cut anyways. Why? Because no matter how well he does playing against third and fourth stringers out there, there's still a reason why he's even getting a lot of touches in the fourth game in the first place. The RBs whose roster spots are secure, and who are expected to contribute to the team significantly don't play at all.

Maybe BJGE played his way into a roster spot. I like the guy, and wouldn't mind it. Honestly, if Morris' injury is looking like it might be a nagging one, then I wouldn't be at all surprised if he ends up being the odd RB out, especially if BB decides that Maroney and Taylor are good to go as 1/2 and he wants the other RB to contribute more in special teams and pass-blocking. To think that last night makes BJGE a slam-dunk, though, just doesn't make sense. If anything, I'm a little worried that, prior to that last drive, we were looking at a sub-3.5 YPC. All of those guys that I listed above were at 5.0 YPC or up, so even after he busted the long one, BJGE is still well them. The only way in which he stands out from that crowd is that he got a full workload, and I'm honestly not sure that that's a good sign.

 

[TB146]

Yeah, but talking about OTA performance and talking on Cutdown's Eve aren't exactly the same thing. Plus, he calls him "Benny." Takes man-love for that...

I was also going to comment on the "Benny" reference. I laughed out loud when I read that. Now if BB had referred to him as "Law Firm", I would have fallen out of my chair.

Because of his production, his youth, his versatility and usefulness, in addition to the chance that either Morris is injured or they do in fact carry 5RBs (not that far-fetched), I think BJGE will make this team. And I've hoped so for a long time.

 

[RayClay]

No I dont know what you meant. You said that individual battles dont decide games, but playcalling and coaching do. But at the same time said we should have won because we were the better team.

I am under the impression you think that play design and play calling is more important than which players win the one on one battle of blocking, tackling, covering, defneding, etc. Is that what you meant? If not why would you say the individual battles are less important that balance and those other items?

The Giants had a great pass rush and their game plan was to live and die with the pass rush. We played right into it.

There's such a thing as taking what the defense gives you and that sometimes means not abandoning (the run in this case) because you get stuffed a few times.

I don't think that is hard to understand. If we did the bolded part, returning to our strength would have been much more productive given we'd established we could run and pass short.

If you still can't understand what I'm saying, I have all weekend.