Why picking Solder will define BB's personel moves

[TheComeback]

Its was suggested in another thread that BB's trading for future picks was always advantageous but I suggest it isnt. What trading for future picks does is get both more AND younger players on an already-overhauled 14-2 team. Follow my logic...

I am not related nor the biggest fan of Matt Light. Our LT has been here quite a while and has been the benefit of our style of offense and has made a few Pro Bowls because of it. He has been a good fit, low key, understated guy who hasnt been out to break any banks lately. Now he is a unrestricted FA watching the draft on TV to see us draft Solder to basically replace him. Light is one of just a few players that were here in the Super Bowl years. IMHO part of "team building" is mixing youth with experience and rewarding the vets like Light even if they are slightly past their prime. This week he will be listed between 60-70 of the best players in the whole friggin league as judged by his peers(top 5%). There are a few positions that continuity and loyalty should be rewarded and LT is one of them especially if he can still play!
Now there are alot of people who can argue that losing Light means we get younger, stronger, cheaper etc...what we cant see nor measure is how losing a leader in the locker room and a model citizen-Patriot is influencing the mass of youth on this team. Losing Light sends a clear message to any potential FAs that loyalty isnt rewarded. Keeping Light sends our highest draft pick in a few years to the bench as our #3 T and blocking TE!! Thats not going to happen.
Now the reason Solder will define BB is simply because we didnt win SBs with BB draft picks. Our SB teams were the grizzled old vets who were old and slow, a bunch of ragtag players off the scrap heap etc. BB can coach them! With the remake of this team we are now one of the youngest teams in the league and BB hasnt demonstrated the same success with his draft picks. Having and paying Seymour(yes, a BB pick) would have won us more games, likely playoff games, in the last 2 years. Period. Would it have cost us a few players at the end of the roster....YES. Solder wouldnt be here. But those players at the end of our roster now are guys like Wilhite, Brace, Ornberger who in years past would have been replaced by a JAG like Otis Smith/Anthony Pleasant/Hochstein. Those type of JAGs have something in common that BB drafted/coached players dont......MOTIVATION. There is simply no motivation from the youth on this team!! There is something to be said for the heiarchy system paying stars and sprinkling in JAGs, it keeps the "middle class" hungry. I suggest so many 2nd-3rd round picks only expands the "middle class" and wont be fully rewarding those that do make it to stardom.... which is particularly difficult to define on a BB team. The guys in the locker room will see this first. At what point in this evolution does BB lose his locker room because of it?

So you're saying one of the youngest, most inexperienced teams in the league finished with an NFL-best 14-2 record and won their division without any motivation for doing so.

I've said this before, but this time I really mean it. That's the dumbest thing I've ever read on this forum since I started reading it four years ago. This team had amazing chemistry last year, the kind of chemistry that most teams never have. They might not have won the Super Bowl, but neither did plenty of other highly-motivated, MORE experienced teams- like the Steelers or the Jets.

While you're in the business of defining BB's legacy, would like to make any predictions about the upcoming season? Maybe 6-10, 8-8? The world is awaiting your wise words, Mr. Camping.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Syntax Error.

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ABC isnt the only logic. There can be logic in ACEGI too, depends on which outcome, which side you are trying to support in a arguement.

 

[TheComeback]

I think it would be safe to say our DEFENSE won our super bowls
Vrabel
Hamilton
McGinest
Bruschi
Harrison
Colvin
Johnson
Law
Washington
, with timely scores from AV/TB. We did get some nice players drafting for sure, but thats not the only thing I was talking about. It was mostly about vet experience...

I love how you leave out

Ty Warren
Vince Wilfork
Richard Seymour
Eugene Wilson
Jarvis Green
Asante Samuel

because they were drafted by BB. All of those guys were starters or major contributors on SB-winning teams. And I left out Dan Klecko and TBC as well.

Also, half the guys you listed were free agent-signing/trades that everyone questioned at the time. Something tells me you would've kicked and cried the moment we cut Lawyer Milloy and decided to rely on Mr. "Washed Up" himself, Rodney Harrison. Or had to count on a "JAG"/career backup like Mike Vrabel to be a starter.

 

[jeffbiologist]

So you're saying one of the youngest, most inexperienced teams in the league finished with an NFL-best 14-2 record and won their division without any motivation for doing so.

I've said this before, but this time I really mean it. That's the dumbest thing I've ever read on this forum since I started reading it four years ago. This team had amazing chemistry last year, the kind of chemistry that most teams never have. They might not have won the Super Bowl, but neither did plenty of other highly-motivated, MORE experienced teams- like the Steelers or the Jets.

While you're in the business of defining BB's legacy, would like to make any predictions about the upcoming season? Maybe 6-10, 8-8? The world is awaiting your wise words, Mr. Camping.

Motivation to win in the playoffs, the know how, the experience you cant draft. The coach did a great job with what he had, no one cooks the stew like BB. But if you think chemistry is defined by regular season wins I suggest just the opposite, its the playoffs that count. 0-3 in our last 3 playoff games over 4 years...Mr.Camping?? How about Mr. LOOK AT ME? If every arguement you see you respond with such extensive hyperbole its hard to know when you really mean something. You do realize that the Jets and Pittsburgh have something in common?? They both won playoff games in 2010. Lets hope there is a season we can disagree more on.

 

[jmt57]

Losing Light sends a clear message to any potential FAs that loyalty isnt rewarded.

I do believe I have been hearing that line annually since 2001, when Belichick decided to go with Brady rather than Bledsoe once Drew was recovered from his injury. The 'players hate him' after Milloy was let go, and nobody would want to play for the Pats after McGinest, Vinatieri, Law, Samuel, Seymour and others I can't think of off the top of my head were not retained.

Keeping Light sends our highest draft pick in a few years to the bench as our #3 T and blocking TE!! Thats not going to happen.

That's pure speculation; not close to being set in stone.

Now the reason Solder will define BB is simply because we didnt win SBs with BB draft picks.

So any coach that wins a championship in his second year as a coach of a team, or three in his first five years as coach of a team only gets partial credit?

Our SB teams were the grizzled old vets who were old and slow, a bunch of ragtag players off the scrap heap etc.

The 2001 team did have Bryan Cox, Roman Phifer, Anthony Pleasant and Otis Smith starting/getting a majority of snaps and all were 33 or older, but the average age on that team was only 27.1. Of the 26 players getting the most playing time only seven were 31 or older. Five of those started playing in the NFL under Belichick in 2000 or 2001.

The 2003 team did have Ted Washington and some of the 'grizzled old vets' from 2001, but take a look at how many players were getting significant playing time that had not played for another NFL coach or team on the 2003 and 2004 squads: Brady, Deion Branch, David Givens, Bethel Johnson, Daniel Graham, Dan Koppen, Tom Ashworth, Richard Seymour, Jarvis Green, Tully Banta-Cain, Lonie Paxton, Asanate Samuel, Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Patrick Pass, Antwan Harris, Stephen Neal, Ben Watson, Vince Wilfork, Brandon Gorin, Randall Gay, etc. Yes I know some of them were undrafted free agents but to me a player that was scouted and signed out of college as an UDFA counts the same as late round draft pick in evaluating a person or team's 'drafting' ability.

Having and paying Seymour(yes, a BB pick) would have won us more games, likely playoff games, in the last 2 years. Period. Would it have cost us a few players at the end of the roster

I think I see the crux of the theory now. Basically it's a disagreement with Belichick's philosophy of spreading available budget and cap space throughout the roster. It is something that is brought up continuously all year long, every year.

Was the decision to trade Seymour a good one? Probably not.

Does that mean Belichick should or will change his philosophy of spending throughout the entire roster and less at the top in comparison to other teams? That he should discard the concept of 'better to get rid of a player a year early than a year late'? Doubtful.

As a fan I can completely understand the frustration of seeing these players traded or not re-signed, and of trading down in the draft. The thing is that we as fans are afforded the luxury of 'let's go all in right now' with no consequences. The reality is that philosophy is more likely to net you what the Washington Redskins have accomplished since Dan Snyder purchased the team, or where the Minnesota Vikings are right now rather than the championship by the Baltimore Ravens in 2000 - the only team that I can think of that succeeded with a 'go for it now, who cares about the future' attitude during the salary cap era.

Yes, it can be frustrating and exasperating to watch. But the reality is that first you have to be good enough to get in the playoffs and after that things are pretty much a crapshoot. The draft itself is a crapshoot; it is extremely rare that a rookie has a significant impact on a team winning the Super Bowl. But this is the way the team does things; it's not going to change.

To me there are three choices: continue being upset with the team you follow, no different than banging your head against the wall on a daily basis; accept that this is the way the team does things and move on; or find another team to root for that does not have much of any long term focus.

 

[DaBruinz]

He signed a decent contract, but as I stated he didnt break the bank...

You did not say anything of the sort.. You said "he wasn't out to break the bank". You also failed because the Pats approached Light about the extension at the time.

oooo? What does that matter? Does anyone remember the hole at ILB? Shoot I could have started....LMAO. Bruschi was exactly coming off a All Pro year...Light is!

What does it matter that Mayo was a higher draft pick than Solder? It goes to your lack of checking facts. You claimed that Solder was the highest pick that the Pats had used in a few years. When that wasn't the case.

You can't even stay focused on what you said. And then you go off on some randomness about Bruschi that has no bearing on the situation at all.

Vollmer and Light were late 2nd round picks not #17 overall, that guy HAS to start.

Newsflash for you. Solder doesn't have to start. Vince Wilfork didn't start immediately. Neither did Ty Warren or Daniel Graham.

It was well known that Moss also went into FA to find his market value only to come back and have us meet it. With Solder on the team does anyone think that Light, off a Pro Bowl year, will be given the same opportunity??

All-Pro WR Moss gets three-year deal to stay with Patriots - NFL - ESPN

Umm.. No.. Because the Pats didn't meet the offer that Moss got from Philly. Moss got a 4 year offer for $36 million with 15 million signing bonus. The Pats only gave Moss a 3 year deal and Moss only got a $12 million signing bonus.

My answer is obvious.

Your answer isn't obvious. In fact, you've failed to show that the Pats have been disloyal to Light in any way..

I'm saying a 2nd round draft pick doesnt have the same motivation as a vet. When was the last time a vet FA took far less money to play here than market value? Maybe you can count Seau...other than that nobody.

That's absolute BS on your part. Randy Moss took less his first year.

Why don't you EXPLAIN how the motivation of a 2nd round pick is different from that of a veteran since you seem to know..

Your making my point for me now!!

I wasn't making your point for you. Your claim was that Smith and Pleasant were bottom of the roster JAGS.

YES. Solder wouldnt be here. But those players at the end of our roster now are guys like Wilhite, Brace, Ornberger who in years past would have been replaced by a JAG like Otis Smith/Anthony Pleasant/Hochstein. Those type of JAGs have something in common that BB drafted/coached players dont......MOTIVATION.

You were wrong then and you continue to be wrong. Smith and Pleasant were STARTERS. Not bottom of the roster Jags as you claimed. Again, You can't be bothered with fact checking.

Facts checked. Opinions checked. You gotta know the difference. How can you expect me to take you seriously when you end every retort to me with garbage? Look, this isnt persnal, its a friggin OPINION board, and mine is educated. You dont have to like it, if we all agreed this board would suck!

You didn't check your facts.. You were wrong when you said that Solder had been the highest 1st rounder in the last few years. You were also wrong in your statement that the Patriots wouldn't be showing Light any loyalty if they didn't re-sign him. You were wrong in your statement that Smith and Pleasant were JAGS.

The only one posting garbage in this thread is you. You don't check your facts. You don't base your opinions on facts. You just spew some randomness.

Hell, you have issues using responding to quotes in such a way that people can actually tell what you are saying.. Is it really that hard to HIGHLIGHT your words and change the font color? Or put it in bold?

BTW, what you FAIL to understand is that Matt Light full intends to go to Free Agency. He said as much. So, the Patriots drafting Solder is them hedging their bets in the event that Light decides to leave. Doing otherwise would have put the team in a worse position.

 

[DaBruinz]

Motivation to win in the playoffs, the know how, the experience you cant draft. The coach did a great job with what he had, no one cooks the stew like BB. But if you think chemistry is defined by regular season wins I suggest just the opposite, its the playoffs that count. 0-3 in our last 3 playoff games over 4 years...Mr.Camping?? How about Mr. LOOK AT ME? If every arguement you see you respond with such extensive hyperbole its hard to know when you really mean something. You do realize that the Jets and Pittsburgh have something in common?? They both won playoff games in 2010. Lets hope there is a season we can disagree more on.

You seem to be confusing motivation with experience. There is a huge difference between the two.

Motivation is the DRIVE. The HUNGER to be the best. Most of the players that BB has drafted have that hunger. More than his fair share have panned out. There are so many variables that go into winning a game it's ludicrous. And for you to claim it's the player's motivation is just unfounded.

 

[jsull87]

Not sure I agree with this. Hypothetical scenario....what if Hoyer or Mallett outplayed BRADY in the preseason, do you bench him, cut him?? Of course not. You have vets on your team to lead a team in the PLAYOFFS, you need more than 2 of these guys on your team!

In all honesty... if hoyer or mallet outplayed brady you would definitely see them playing ahead of him. I think if anything BB has been consistent on that throughout his time in new England

 

[Sciz]

I'm curious. How many of the starters were the same in the loss to the Jets compared to the loss to the Giants a few years ago?

 

[jsull87]

Motivation to win in the playoffs, the know how, the experience you cant draft. The coach did a great job with what he had, no one cooks the stew like BB. But if you think chemistry is defined by regular season wins I suggest just the opposite, its the playoffs that count. 0-3 in our last 3 playoff games over 4 years...Mr.Camping?? How about Mr. LOOK AT ME? If every arguement you see you respond with such extensive hyperbole its hard to know when you really mean something. You do realize that the Jets and Pittsburgh have something in common?? They both won playoff games in 2010. Lets hope there is a season we can disagree more on.

No you said that the vets have something the draftees don't... motivation. Don't change your position now to motivation and experience, the two are completely different.

And if your trying to argue somehow our team wasn't motivated in the playoffs i think your disrespecting the players pretty bad there.

 

[stinkypete]

I love how you leave out

Ty Warren
Vince Wilfork
Richard Seymour
Eugene Wilson
Jarvis Green
Asante Samuel

because they were drafted by BB. All of those guys were starters or major contributors on SB-winning teams. And I left out Dan Klecko and TBC as well.

Hell, while we're at it. Some other Belichick draft picks that contributed to Super Bowl runs.

Patrick Pass
Bethel Johnson
JR Redmond
Dexter Reid

All made contributions to winners.

 

[jmt57]

The premise isnt wrong, you didnt read it right. Its not at all about Solder, shoot he could be a pro bowler this year and it wouldnt have affected this thread. Its not even about the draft but the GMs philosophy about who to pay and who not to pay. I never said a bad thing about BB the COACH, ever. But Light's slight will send ripples through the locker room I'm afraid. If you now have a bunch of young talented guys without proper leadership ON THE FIELD that could affect us in playoff time when it counts.

What NFL teams that have subscribed to a theory of paying every veteran whatever they wanted have been successful in the free agency/salary cap era? And how do we know the Patriots won't re-sign Light? As for the 'ripple' effect of players not coming to Foxboro or wanting to play for the Patriots, the evidence points to the idea that if that was true it would have happened long ago.

I think the players know by now that BB subscribes to the Bill Walsh theory that it's better to get rid of a player one year too early than one year too late. They understand that this is a business and the objective is winning - that's how BB (and any other coach) keeps his job. Young players come, old players go.

Not sure I agree with this. Hypothetical scenario....what if Hoyer or Mallett outplayed BRADY in the preseason, do you bench him, cut him?? Of course not. You have vets on your team to lead a team in the PLAYOFFS, you need more than 2 of these guys on your team!

Assuming that Light does indeed not return, let's look at the number of veterans and amount of experience the team still has on that side of the ball.

Tom Brady: 11 years, 143 games started
Alge Crumpler: 10 years, 155 games, 132 starts
Deion Branch: 9 years, 115 games, 92 starts
Dan Koppen: 8 years, 119 starts
Wes Welker: 7 years, 108 games, 54 starts
Logan Mankins: 6 years, 89 starts
Note: these are regular season numbers; totals including playoff games will be higher

Even an 'inexperienced' guy like Vollmer has now played in 30 games and started 24 of them.

What is the exact optimum point between 'old and slow' and 'raw and inexperienced' that an NFL team should strive to be at?



As for the Hoyer/Mallett hypothetical, performance in preseason games is only one factor, and a rather small one at that. There's no game planning in preseason games; one of them is up against the opposing team's 40th to 60th best players and the other is facing the opposition's 60th to 80th best players. But if he shows enough in workouts, practices, meetings, film study, etc. while the starter regresses in all those areas, then the starter would be on a shorter lease - just the same as what happened when Belichick considered starting Brady over Bledsoe to begin the 2001 season.

 

[jsull87]

Assuming that Light does indeed not return, let's look at the number of veterans and amount of experience the team still has on that side of the ball.

Tom Brady: 11 years, 143 games started
Alge Crumpler: 10 years, 155 games, 132 starts
Deion Branch: 9 years, 115 games, 92 starts
Dan Koppen: 8 years, 119 starts
Wes Welker: 7 years, 108 games, 54 starts
Logan Mankins: 6 years, 89 starts
Note: these are regular season numbers; totals including playoff games will be higher

Even an 'inexperienced' guy like Vollmer has now played in 30 games and started 24 of them.

What is the exact optimum point between 'old and slow' and 'raw and inexperienced' that an NFL team should strive to be at?

This information is exactly the type of thing the poster is ignoring when making his opening statements. For the hell of it i have put the defensive starting vets there too.

Starters
Ty Warren 105 games 92 starts (injury effected)
Vince Willfork 106 games 96 starts
James Sanders 84 games 50 starts
Leigh Bodden 90 games 67 starts
Marcus Stroud 152 games 138 starts

Others
This isn't even including people like
TBC 113 games 31 starts
G Warren with 150 odd games and 130 odd starts

 

[jeffbiologist]

In all honesty... if hoyer or mallet outplayed brady you would definitely see them playing ahead of him. I think if anything BB has been consistent on that throughout his time in new England

BB admitted Brady outplayed Bledsoe in preseason in 2001 and Bledsoe still started....

 

[jeffbiologist]

No you said that the vets have something the draftees don't... motivation. Don't change your position now to motivation and experience, the two are completely different.

And if your trying to argue somehow our team wasn't motivated in the playoffs i think your disrespecting the players pretty bad there.

Newsflash, they stunk it up in that game and I'm sure they will be the first to admit it.

 

[jeffbiologist]

What NFL teams that have subscribed to a theory of paying every veteran whatever they wanted have been successful in the free agency/salary cap era? And how do we know the Patriots won't re-sign Light? As for the 'ripple' effect of players not coming to Foxboro or wanting to play for the Patriots, the evidence points to the idea that if that was true it would have happened long ago.


Moving a player at a speed position before he slows is a good move. Moving a player at a position that requires continuity and intelligence is different IMHO.


Assuming that Light does indeed not return, let's look at the number of veterans and amount of experience the team still has on that side of the ball.

Tom Brady: 11 years, 143 games started--GRANTED
Alge Crumpler: 10 years, 155 games, 132 starts--The reaper cometh
Deion Branch: 9 years, 115 games, 92 starts--a hamstring away from being forgotten
Dan Koppen: 8 years, 119 starts--maybe the worst OL last year
Wes Welker: 7 years, 108 games, 54 starts--Contract year, likely wont be back
Logan Mankins: 6 years, 89 starts--Will never play another snap for the Pats

Note: these are regular season numbers; totals including playoff games will be higher

Even an 'inexperienced' guy like Vollmer has now played in 30 games and started 24 of them.

What is the exact optimum point between 'old and slow' and 'raw and inexperienced' that an NFL team should strive to be at?

I'm not saying I have the answers I only point out that the team is now constituted alot differently than it was. I dont consider Crumpler a starter, though he is more than a backup. How many guys over 30 on offense? Brady, Branch, Koppen. Defense? Warren and Stroud, thats it. Of them Koppen is the weak link on the OL, Warren is coming off major surgery and Stroud hasnt learned the playbook yet. Bodden is 30, but it wouldnt surprise me to see him expendable with Dowling in the fold. It is not wrong to talk about the differences right?


As for the Hoyer/Mallett hypothetical, performance in preseason games is only one factor, and a rather small one at that. There's no game planning in preseason games; one of them is up against the opposing team's 40th to 60th best players and the other is facing the opposition's 60th to 80th best players. But if he shows enough in workouts, practices, meetings, film study, etc. while the starter regresses in all those areas, then the starter would be on a shorter lease - just the same as what happened when Belichick considered starting Brady over Bledsoe to begin the 2001 season.

Shorter leash? Exactly where do you think BB would have pulled Drew and inserted TB without injury? My bet is that our playoff chances would have been dead before TB got a sniff. A decision BB got to avoid completely, one I'm sure he is greatful for.

 

[jsull87]

Newsflash, they stunk it up in that game and I'm sure they will be the first to admit it.

No ones arguing they stunk it up... your arguing they weren't hungry (clearly not the case). Your basically saying because they were draftees and not vets on the edge of the roster that they aren't hungry and i think thats why you'll find most in this thread are disagreeing with you.

Also RE Brady outplaying Bledsoe in 2001 thats the 1st i have heard of that and you don't think BB has learned from that if it was the case?

^this is however a tangent we have gone on.

The real point is you have casually ignored BB's draftee's in your claims that the "hungry" vets were the reason we won in the superbowl. While making more claims that the reason we lost this year (and the previous 4 years) is our rookies weren't hungry enough. All of which you can't seem to back up with any evidence, as when you claim we need more than "2 vets to lead this team" jmt57 points out 6 vet leaders we have on the roster on the O side of the ball.

A 2nd round pick isn't as hungry as a vet? your telling me you don't think Spikes, Cunningham or Gronk were hungry to win each having their own doubters e.g too slow, too injury prone and should have gone in the later rounds of the draft. You are just ignoring facts that don't agree with your theory.

 

[jmt57]

Shorter leash? Exactly where do you think BB would have pulled Drew and inserted TB without injury? My bet is that our playoff chances would have been dead before TB got a sniff. A decision BB got to avoid completely, one I'm sure he is greatful for.

First you say that Belichick is wrong for not keeping veterans such as Matt Light around, making the assumption that he won't be on the team this year.

Now it appears that you are saying that Belichick erred by not replacing Bledsoe (who had 8 years experience and 122 games) with Brady (1 year, 3 passes) to start the 2001 season.


Which side of the fence are you on?





Seems to me that you simply don't like Belichick - which is fine, that's certainly your right. It just looks to me like you are flailing at anything in an attempt to find reasons to justify that position.

 

[jeffbiologist]

First you say that Belichick is wrong for not keeping veterans such as Matt Light around, making the assumption that he won't be on the team this year.

Now it appears that you are saying that Belichick erred by not replacing Bledsoe (who had 8 years experience and 122 games) with Brady (1 year, 3 passes) to start the 2001 season.


Which side of the fence are you on?





Seems to me that you simply don't like Belichick - which is fine, that's certainly your right. It just looks to me like you are flailing at anything in an attempt to find reasons to justify that position.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/750189-matt-light-tonite.html
Well, I was on record before the draft to move on from Light and go after a pass rusher in FA. But this pick is so important, so defining to the team, the coach, the GM and the future makeup of the team it could easily define his personel moves. That was my point. Replacing Light with a high priced FA OLB would be an ideal move if possible. Not a rookie, a vet obviously. But who really knows what happened between the team and Light, no one here. Its not that I dont like BB, in fact I love the guy as a coach because he can make lemons into lemonaide like nobodys business. As a front-runner team-builder there will always be chances to improve the team and I wonder aloud if BB doesnt prefer teaching younger players than coaching vets. What he PREFERS may not be a winning formula. Maybe I am completely wrong but as any opinion board who really cares....

 

[jeffbiologist]

You did not say anything of the sort.. You said "he wasn't out to break the bank". You also failed because the Pats approached Light about the extension at the time.

I said "he wasnt out to break the bank", the team approached him- 0-1

What does it matter that Mayo was a higher draft pick than Solder? It goes to your lack of checking facts. You claimed that Solder was the highest pick that the Pats had used in a few years. When that wasn't the case.

"the highest pick that the Pats had used in a few years"-few=3. 0-2

You can't even stay focused on what you said. And then you go off on some randomness about Bruschi that has no bearing on the situation at all.

Grandstanding on a 0-2 start, PRICELESS.

Newsflash for you. Solder doesn't have to start. Vince Wilfork didn't start immediately. Neither did Ty Warren or Daniel Graham.

Wow, maybe he can play TE? Maybe he can kick? Maybe he has value in the ST?? This isnt a SB team, #17 should start considering the number of holes we have in our starting lineup. If he doesnt, Light is resigned, exactly where and when do you put him in?? 0-3

All-Pro WR Moss gets three-year deal to stay with Patriots - NFL - ESPN

Umm.. No.. Because the Pats didn't meet the offer that Moss got from Philly. Moss got a 4 year offer for $36 million with 15 million signing bonus. The Pats only gave Moss a 3 year deal and Moss only got a $12 million signing bonus.


FACT-the Pats let Moss go to FA to determine market value before signing him-0-4

Your answer isn't obvious. In fact, you've failed to show that the Pats have been disloyal to Light in any way..

Light was at a draft party and was yucking it up with some teammates and when #17 was picked Light dissappeared from the party. Or maybe thats not true because it happened on TV. 0-5

That's absolute BS on your part. Randy Moss took less his first year.

Here you try and BS your claim being relavent...0-6

Why don't you EXPLAIN how the motivation of a 2nd round pick is different from that of a veteran since you seem to know..

Fine I will. A 23 year old 2nd round pick is busy finding a condo and not impregnating the neighborhood. Sure they like the gym, what about that motivates them? What gears them toward a playoff run? A 32 yr old grizzled vet(see G.Warren)playing for under market value for a chance to finally get a ring has MOTIVATION. He can see the end of a career having been to 2,3,4,5 teams in his career he has seen how NOT to win. Something a 1st or 2nd year player can never see. If you dont see the difference between the 2 you arent 23 yet or cant remember when you were 33...0-7

I wasn't making your point for you. Your claim was that Smith and Pleasant were bottom of the roster JAGS.

Smith was a JAG forced to start when Law went down. Pleasant was a off the scrap heap FA signing that anyone could have had...a JAG. 0-8


You were wrong then and you continue to be wrong. Smith and Pleasant were STARTERS. Not bottom of the roster Jags as you claimed. Again, You can't be bothered with fact checking.

This is where you beat your chest again for being 0-8!! FACTS CHECKED


You didn't check your facts.. You were wrong when you said that Solder had been the highest 1st rounder in the last few years. You were also wrong in your statement that the Patriots wouldn't be showing Light any loyalty if they didn't re-sign him. You were wrong in your statement that Smith and Pleasant were JAGS.

Here all you do is repeat yourself as if saying it over and over will make it TRUE-LMAO--0-9!!

The only one posting garbage in this thread is you. You don't check your facts. You don't base your opinions on facts. You just spew some randomness.

Hint-dont pee into the wind--0-10

Hell, you have issues using responding to quotes in such a way that people can actually tell what you are saying.. Is it really that hard to HIGHLIGHT your words and change the font color? Or put it in bold?

PUT IT IN BOLD FOR YOU?? 0-11~

BTW, what you FAIL to understand is that Matt Light full intends to go to Free Agency. He said as much. So, the Patriots drafting Solder is them hedging their bets in the event that Light decides to leave. Doing otherwise would have put the team in a worse position.

Light can choose to be a FA, and I never said it was a bad thing for either side. In fact I had a suspicion that they had already talked and thats why I posted that Light thread before the draft. All I said here was that this move could very easily define BBs personel moves(not the draft as some keep stating). This move isnt the same as Seymour, Milloy, Law or any of the other vets.