Why did this team sign Tebow?

[belichick010405]

I realize that b...I admit I am in the minority on this subject...in fact, besides the T Nation collective, I'm one of the few Patriot fans that see value in keeping Tebow as a 3rd qb. I just have a long memory in regards to BB and HIS decisions in the interest of the Patriots. I gave up a long time ago 2nd guessing his moves, because when compared to the hits and misses of other organizations...well...the Pats record speaks for itself.

Colleges and universities are moving wholesale to the read option offense for their football teams. I suspect, as this filters into the talent pool going forward, more and more NFL draftees at QB will be read option players and more teams will put it to use. I think having Tebow on the roster and working an offense specific to his skills is a step toward moving to the R/O post Brady. We didn't see the R/O last Friday, but I personally witnessed the Pats devoting many reps to it in camp, so there IS intent on BB's part.

Time will tell and I could be wrong as a left turn over a cliff, but at the end of the day, we're still Patriots fans...which is good enough for me.

The other thing that BB could do during the season is sign him on these short-term contracts that last for a couple of weeks in case he needs to prepare for read option offenses (like for Carolina) when they are coming up on the schedule.

If there is one thing that we know BB to do is have these guys hanging around, getting their work in, and then sign them for the specific purpose of helping the team prepare for an opponent.

BB is not going to devote a roster spot for the entirety of the season so that the read option is practiced week in and week out....

 

[manxman2601]

make no mistake about it where I stand on Tebow vis a vis the Patriots...I firmly believe he HAS already made the 53 man roster. I would like to have depth at the DT position or secondary instead of a 3rd QB but I'm just a fan and if Bill deems Tebow good enough for the 53 I'm fine with that.

What I am NOT fine with is the silence immediately following Friday's game, followed up by this eventual "he really didn't do that bad...it was the other guy's fault!!!" narrowly focused propaganda a few days later. I'm a PATRIOTS fan. I take this constant Tebowing as an affront to the body of work of Tom Brady and a slap in the face of all rabid Patriot fans, as if there is any other kind. To call us "uninformed", "casual", "fat,stupid and lazy fanship" is enraging in its total utter ignorance.

You've been very fair and informative when it comes to Tebow. But I do question whether this excuse making was prevalent on this forum (unless you are just pointing at the other forum) - I certainly didn't see it although I didn't read through the game thread.

 

[belichick010405]

You've been very fair and informative when it comes to Tebow. But I do question whether this excuse making was prevalent on this forum (unless you are just pointing at the other forum) - I certainly didn't see it although I didn't read through the game thread.

Manx - in my view, the excuse making that was occurring, emphasis on was, was regarding all of the statistical measures that Tebow was not performing on the same level as a quality NFL starting caliber quarterback prior to the Jets and how those points were excused because "he went 7-4" and "he beat the Steelers".

 

[belichick010405]

Harsh reality is Tim Tebow can?t play | Boston Herald

And here come the "big boys" of the Boston media.

Enter Stage Left - Gerry Callahan, Boston Herald

 

[manxman2601]

Manx - in my view, the excuse making that was occurring, emphasis on was, was regarding all of the statistical measures that Tebow was not performing as a NFL starting caliber quarterback prior to the Jets and how those points were excused because "he went 7-4" and "he beat the Steelers".

You are going to love my upcoming post

I certainly got in some tussles with you over stats and I admit I may have been a little defensive but I do think that stats without context don't mean much. Tebow is in effect a one year vet (only 16 starts) and his stats match that of a whole lot of other one year starters. You and other critics are failing to ackowledge that Tebow isn't fully developed yet just as Jake Locker or 2nd year Eli weren't. He deserves the same chance that they got is all I and others are saying.

Look, I buy the argument that Tebow's stats + his poor throwing action plus his questionable ability to read the game don't add up to starting QB material but that is still a subjective and debatable point.

But I've just been doing some reading on Tebow and I didn't realise that his CFB stats were better than Peyton Manning*. Now before all the haters jump in and try and tell me that I think that Tebow is better than Manning, WELL I DON'T, but it does suggest that there is something there for someone patient enough to dig out. I'm not suggesting it's a starting QB but it might just be a productive one.


* Better completion percentage, better yards per attempt and better TD/INT ratio

 

[Joker]

surprised Callahan went out on a limb like that and declared Tebow a goner in two weeks...has to be insider info...he's too much of a whiny grandstander to take a position like this on his own.

 

[Demosthenes]

it's not an obsession...it's a look at the two faced nature of a certain collective as they make statements that contradict the ones they make here. This is a well known and often used tool here in regards to the horde of Jet fans who post their hatred unabashedly at THEIR sites and then claim "I'm a reasonable Jet fan" when they log into Patsfans. The same phenomenon is in play regarding the 'Bowites.

make no mistake about it where I stand on Tebow vis a vis the Patriots...I firmly believe he HAS already made the 53 man roster. I would like to have depth at the DT position or secondary instead of a 3rd QB but I'm just a fan and if Bill deems Tebow good enough for the 53 I'm fine with that.

What I am NOT fine with is the silence immediately following Friday's game, followed up by this eventual "he really didn't do that bad...it was the other guy's fault!!!" narrowly focused propaganda a few days later. I'm a PATRIOTS fan. I take this constant Tebowing as an affront to the body of work of Tom Brady and a slap in the face of all rabid Patriot fans, as if there is any other kind. To call us "uninformed", "casual", "fat,stupid and lazy fanship" is enraging in its total utter ignorance.

FTR, there isn't a "Tebow collective". Even amongst Tebow supporters, there's variation in opinion on any number of subjects.

As to the "silence immediately following Friday's game", what silence ? I've seen plenty of Tebowites talking about him being lousy in that game.

 

[belichick010405]

You are going to love my upcoming post

I certainly got in some tussles with you over stats and I admit I may have been a little defensive but I do think that stats without context don't mean much. Tebow is in effect a one year vet (only 16 starts) and his stats match that of a whole lot of other one year starters. You and other critics are failing to ackowledge that Tebow isn't fully developed yet just as Jake Locker or 2nd year Eli weren't. He deserves the same chance that they got is all I and others are saying.

Look, I buy the argument that Tebow's stats + his poor throwing action plus his questionable ability to read the game don't add up to starting QB material but that is still a subjective and debatable point.

But I've just been doing some reading on Tebow and I didn't realise that his CFB stats were better than Peyton Manning*. Now before all the haters jump in and try and tell me that I think that Tebow is better than Manning, WELL I DON'T, but it does suggest that there is something there for someone patient enough to dig out. I'm not suggesting it's a starting QB but it might just be a productive one.


* Better completion percentage, better yards per attempt and better TD/INT ratio

Manx

Repeat After Me

"I don't want to hear it"

"I don't want to hear it"

"I don't want to hear it"

 

[manxman2601]

Harsh reality is Tim Tebow can?t play | Boston Herald

And here come the "big boys" of the Boston media.

Enter Stage Left - Gerry Callahan, Boston Herald

There's only one "big boy" that matters and he doesn't give a **** what the Boston Media say.

 

[Ironman44]

I wonder how many ways it can be said Tebow can't play over and over and over and over?

There are basically 4 different post in this thread (and or mixed variations) numbering in the 1000+ post range

1. Tebow Fans : He has intangibles, BB knows more than we do, he sucked in those 2 games but we still believe.

2. Tebow detractors: he is not an NFL QB. he can not pass and does not belong on the team or in the NFL.

3. Patriots' Fans (that root for all Patriots players in uniform) : I like Tebow, he is a good guy and am rooting for him but I am not feeling it right now. I guess he might make the roster anyway who knows.

4. Forum member who does not care: I like pie.

its basically those 4 things over and over and over and over and over and over.

 

[Joker]

FTR, there isn't a "Tebow collective". Even amongst Tebow supporters, there's variation in opinion on any number of subjects.

heh...OK...show me the internet fan board with thousands of posts and hundreds of threads devoted to another NFL player...I'll wait.

 

[Tunescribe]

FTR, there isn't a "Tebow collective". Even amongst Tebow supporters, there's variation in opinion on any number of subjects.

Maybe call it a Tebow cabal?

At this stage of things, it's really hard to imagine why anyone would be a Tebow supporter as far as his playing in the NFL. He has thoroughly and conclusively proven that he's just not a pro quarterback.

 

[Demosthenes]

Manx - in my view, the excuse making that was occurring, emphasis on was, was regarding all of the statistical measures that Tebow was not performing on the same level as a quality NFL starting caliber quarterback prior to the Jets and how those points were excused because "he went 7-4" and "he beat the Steelers".

That's incorrect belichick. What was being pointed out was the obvious, which is that back in 2011, Tebow was a young and inexperienced QB making his first starts in the NFL.

The funny thing is that I hear all the same things being said about Mallett's development. Hell, I think I even heard Bill Belichick mention that Mallett's development was hindered by the freaking lockout and the abbreviated preseason caused by said lockout.

Why is it that when those reasons are being discussed wrt Mallett, they are objective and factual, yet when talking about Tebow, they are called "excuse making" ?

 

[belichick010405]

There's only one "big boy" that matters and he doesn't give a **** what the Boston Media say.

Yes - I know that. All I was trying to convey is that this is what we should expect from the Globe, Herald and the other associated Boston medias over the next two weeks.

The public is going to weigh the opinions of guys like Callahan long over guys like Ben Volin, who just started working in this media market, or Nick "Bleepin" Underhill.

 

[Demosthenes]

heh...OK...show me the internet fan board with thousands of posts and hundreds of threads devoted to another NFL player...I'll wait.

What I'm saying is that there is variation in opinion. That thread you cited actually demonstrates it. Sure, there are some people out there who are convinced that Tebow is the greatest ever, even as an NFL QB.

There are many others who recognize his deficiencies, and have since before he was drafted.

 

[belichick010405]

That's incorrect belichick. What was being pointed out was the obvious, which is that back in 2011, Tebow was a young and inexperienced QB making his first starts in the NFL.

The funny thing is that I hear all the same things being said about Mallett's development. Hell, I think I even heard Bill Belichick mention that Mallett's development was hindered by the freaking lockout and the abbreviated preseason caused by said lockout.

Why is it that when those reasons are being discussed wrt Mallett, they are objective and factual, yet when talking about Tebow, they are called "excuse making" ?

Yes - Demos, it is excuse making in accordance to his statistical measures, his throwing ability as well as his performance in this years' training camp.

You could tell me how wrong I am. The fact is that if I was wrong, Tebow would be doing a lot more in camp and in the two pre-season showings this year, which in the end is all that really matters because going 7-4 in 2011 means nada.

 

[Demosthenes]

Yes - Demos, it is excuse making in accordance to his statistical measures, his throwing ability as well as his performance in this years' training camp.

You could tell me how wrong I am. The fact is that if I was wrong, Tebow would be doing a lot more in camp and in the two pre-season showings this year, which in the end is all that really matters because going 7-4 in 2011 means nada.

No, it ISN'T "excuse making" in accordance with his statistical measures. You are basing that off of one single stat, which is his completion percentage and that it was less than 50%. Of course, you either ignored or didn't realize that Eli Manning had a sub 50% comp % in his first season as a starter as well.

When you put all of Tebow's other 2011 stats up against other QBs in their first 16 starts, he's right in line with most of them.

 

[belichick010405]

No, it ISN'T "excuse making" in accordance with his statistical measures. You are basing that off of one single stat, which is his completion percentage and that it was less than 50%. Of course, you either ignored or didn't realize that Eli Manning had a sub 50% comp % in his first season as a starter as well.

When you put all of Tebow's other 2011 stats up against other QBs in their first 16 starts, he's right in line with most of them.

Demos - why do you insist on continuously rehashing 2011 stats as if it is the only measure in assessing Tebow's capacity to be a not only a starting quarterback but a quarterback who could help the New England Patriots win a Super Bowl because that is what the Patriots try to achieve each and every year?

What does matter is what he is doing with his current opportunity.

Between what he is doing with his current opportunity combined with his putrid throwing technique and combined with being 2nd to Curtis Painter (who btw is not even in the league) in leading the NFL in 3 and outs in 2011, tied for the league with 13 fumbles in 2011 and a passing completion under 50% where the standard (emphasis on standard) is 60% in 2011 far outweighs your claim that Tebow was responsible for the Broncos going 7-4 and that somehow equates to him getting a spot on the 53-man roster and being the quarterback of the future of this franchise.

It is the combination of all of it. Not just one simple fact that can lead the 60+% of us to assess that Tebow is a square peg in a round hole and based on his performance in the first two pre-season games, Tebow cannot throw a football through that round hole.

 

[Joker]

Sure, there are some people out there who are convinced that Tebow is the greatest ever, even as an NFL QB.

which is the point I was making earlier tonight...insanity. It's not YOU, or Ironman I'm making reference to.Just as you group all of us as Tebow haters whenever any one Patriots fan sees many flaws in Tebow through the prism of Patriot and Tom Brady fanship does not mean we see all the Tebow fans in the same light. When a Tebow fan posts In the last 2 preseason games I have seen Tebow throw some of the best laser spirals I've seen him throw his entire NFL career to date. They weren't all caught (some not his fault) and some were off the mark a little (some his fault), but I am extremely encouraged to see improvement in some areas that we haven't seen noticeable improvement in before now. and THIS is in reference to Friday night and THIS goes UNCHALLENGED by the rest of that board, then one has very valid reasons to doubt the rationality of this group.

This following post, also completely unchallenged, and actually endorsed by EVERYONE on the Tim Tebow Board, is so enraging and disrespectful to every one of us Pats fans new and old that I cannot comprehend any rationalization that explains it as an outlier...

I think this is why Polls run by such Outlets as Local Newspapers or TV Stations almost always have overwhelmingly high numbers for Tebow no matter what the question. Because while we here may look at all of this Commentary, "Analysis", etc., over 90% of NFL Fans don't look at any of it. They don't care. They know what they like and see no reason to devote any time to listening to others' opinions.

That right there is REPUGNANT to me and other Patriot fans. I've yet to see the Tebow fan that disagrees with it though.

 

[Demosthenes]

Demos - why do you insist on continuously rehashing 2011 stats as if it is the only measure in assessing Tebow's capacity to be a not only a starting quarterback but a quarterback who could help the New England Patriots win a Super Bowl because that is what the Patriots try to achieve each and every year?

Gee, I don't know belichick, perhaps it's because you made this rather ignorant comment ?

Manx - in my view, the excuse making that was occurring, emphasis on was, was regarding all of the statistical measures that Tebow was not performing on the same level as a quality NFL starting caliber quarterback prior to the Jets and how those points were excused because "he went 7-4" and "he beat the Steelers".

YOU brought 2011 into this discussion. You know, back when Tebow went 7-4 ? I was simply pointing out that you were wrong.

What does matter is what he is doing with his current opportunity.

Doesn't. But it does help to explain why his supporters support him. Personally, I'm somewhat befuddled as to why he looks worse now than he did in 2011 and 2010, even though he is throwing a nicer looking ball.

Between what he is doing with his current opportunity combined with his putrid throwing technique and combined with being 2nd to Curtis Painter (who btw is not even in the league) in leading the NFL in 3 and outs in 2011, tied for the league with 13 fumbles in 2011 and a passing completion under 50% where the standard (emphasis on standard) is 60% in 2011 far outweighs your claim that Tebow was responsible for the Broncos going 7-4 and that somehow equates to him getting a spot on the 53-man roster and being the quarterback of the future of this franchise.

FTR, Curtis Painter is in the NFL currently. Secondly, that comp% "standard" has already been addressed. Eli didn't pass 60% until his 5th year in the NFL. Andrew Luck, the "greatest prospect in a generation" managed a 54.1% last year. Josh Freeman has been a starter for a number of years and he had a 54.8 comp % last year.


Now listen very closely so there is less chance of a misunderstanding. YES, a sub 50% isn't good, and yes, that comp % would need to be improved. THAT SAID, having a sub 50% comp % over a guys first 16 starts doesn't mean he can't or won't turn out to be a good NFL QB.

It is the combination of all of it. Not just one simple fact that can lead the 60+% of us to assess that Tebow is a square peg in a round hole and based on his performance in the first two pre-season games, Tebow cannot throw a football through that round hole.

Dude, you were beating this drum before Tebow even played a down in a preseason game, so don't act like you waited until seeing something from him this year before making your determination.