why "bend but don't break" is a better D

[jimleehunt]

as a response to the "other" thread: this type of D works well IF you have a strong run defense-that is the #1 prerequisite. it is predicated on not giving up big plays, but stiffening in the red zone. you will often give up a lotta yards. it works very well vs. explosive,fast offenses. why? because once an offense reaches the red zone-speed is obviously negated. its all about power. power running. power, big tall wrs or tes. but that plays right into the pats defensive strengths. the pats are the biggest,most powerful defense in the nfl-not the fastest. theyre one of the best vs. the run. that makes it extremely difficult for offenses to score on them from the red zone. its actually easier for opposing offenses to try to score via a big play from 40+ yards out-than from 20 yards out. everyone knows this. so the pats focus on stopping the big plays. it works. right now, the pats d is ranked #4 in the nfl-behind denver,chi and balt. pats are also #5 in the nfl vs. the run and rank near the top of the league in a bunch of other defensive stats. btw-"total yardage" and "passing yardage" are basically meaningless stats. good teams will often give up a lot of yards-mostly passing, because they have leads and the other team is playing catch-up. plus this type of D gives up yards by design. the best stat to measure pass defense is " opp. qb rating"-which encompasses everything-tds,yds per pass att.,ints,yds, etc. Points allowed is the #1 defensive stat-and how defenses are really ranked. after that-rushing defense is the 2nd most important. the Pats D is also still improving. the secondary gets better by the week, the dl is the best in the nfl and the lbs are solid. even better-among the teams that have top defenses-denver,NE,chi,balt,sd and pitts-the pats have the best OFFENSE-which is also improving by the week. this could be a very scary team by jan.

 

[Oswlek]

as a response to the "other" thread: this type of D works well IF you have a strong run defense-that is the #1 prerequisite. it is predicated on not giving up big plays, but stiffening in the red zone. you will often give up a lotta yards. it works very well vs. explosive,fast offenses. why? because once an offense reaches the red zone-speed is obviously negated. its all about power. power running. power, big tall wrs or tes. but that plays right into the pats defensive strengths. the pats are the biggest,most powerful defense in the nfl-not the fastest. theyre one of the best vs. the run. that makes it extremely difficult for offenses to score on them from the red zone. its actually easier for opposing offenses to try to score via a big play from 40+ yards out-than from 20 yards out. everyone knows this. so the pats focus on stopping the big plays. it works. right now, the pats d is ranked #4 in the nfl-behind denver,chi and balt. pats are also #5 in the nfl vs. the run and rank near the top of the league in a bunch of other defensive stats. btw-"total yardage" and "passing yardage" are basically meaningless stats. good teams will often give up a lot of yards-mostly passing, because they have leads and the other team is playing catch-up. plus this type of D gives up yards by design. the best stat to measure pass defense is " opp. qb rating"-which encompasses everything-tds,yds per pass att.,ints,yds, etc. Points allowed is the #1 defensive stat-and how defenses are really ranked. after that-rushing defense is the 2nd most important. the Pats D is also still improving. the secondary gets better by the week, the dl is the best in the nfl and the lbs are solid. even better-among the teams that have top defenses-denver,NE,chi,balt,sd and pitts-the pats have the best OFFENSE-which is also improving by the week. this could be a very scary team by jan.

There are plenty of teams that have speed and size. Don't bend at all is still the best option if you can pull it off.

 

[jimleehunt]

oswlek-agreed. but the pats D best suits their personnel-it maximizes strengths and minimizes weaknesses-thats all any coach/scheme can do-the rest is up to the players. oth, a lot of the d's youre referring to are gambling D's-that go for big plays-sacks,ints-but also get burned a lot. i'll take our disciplined 2gap system. you cant name 4 better defenses than the patriots right now-and over the last 5 years-the pats almost always gets better as the season wears on.

 

[BradyManny]

The problem with "bend don't break" is that your offense has the ball for a lesser amount of time. But I don't really see the Pats D as "bend don't break" as much as it is "stifling". Teams are going to get first downs...we can't expect 3 and outs everytime. With the exception of about 3-4 big plays this season, our D has been among the best in the league.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Bend but don't break is really a passing defense philosophy. Like jimleehunt said, you must have a good run D or else you'll be breaking more than bending. The pass defense doesn't need to be spectacular on both the short and long routes, but must be at least good on the short routes in the red zone where long routes are negated. Ideally, the run D will put the opposition in long passing downs, forcing them to execute repeatedly in the short passing game. Between the 20s, the pass D will back off to avoid a long gainer, giving the opposition a chance to bend the D. If the opposition can execute repeatedly in these situations, so be it. However, once the oppostion reaches the red zone, the good short pass defense combined with a good run D will stall the opposition.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Kdo5]

It is great to see how this defense and how much better it has become. A better coordinator and despite critisizm about the secondary and old line backers, they have just played spectacular.

 

[Fencer]

It's a trade-off. There are three possible priorities you can have on defense:

• Avoid giving up big plays
• Make big plays
• Minimize the opposition's success on all the non-big plays

For the Patriots, the top two are the big-plays ones, in some order. The other one is a little bit less crucial.

Here's the thing. BB seems to believe that when an equally good offense and defense face off, the defense "should" be able to hold on a short field, but should not be able to prevent short gains on a longer field. I think in BB land, with perfect execution on every play by each team, each drive would end in a field goal.

 

[shakadave]

Keep talking you guys! This is great eavesdropping for the likes of me....

 

[BelichickFan]

I don't know why everyone thinks we're bending so much.

10th best in yards allowed.
6th best in rushing yards allowed.
20th in passing yards allowed but most of those were on breaks (Den, NYJ) not bends.

We aren't allowing a lot of yards, and as mentioned the bad stat of passing yards is more based on the defensive breakdowns.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Bend don't break is a better D. This is true only with a corollary. It is true only for a Team that is complete. It won't work for a Team that is helpless on Offense.

It would not have led to a winning record last year for the Chicago Bears for example. The Baltimore Ravens clubs of the past few years have had good Defenses that are sometimes better even than "bend don't break".

The problem though is that the Offensive ineptness repeatedly gives the opposition Offense another try until they eventually (out)-score you. Alternatively, it allows more opportunities your own inept Offense to give up a TD on a turnover.

The final proof of the pudding is the historical record. 59-1 when leading going into the fourth quarter. A winning percentage of 98.3 per cent! That is almost a lead pipe cinch

 

[emoney_33]

Excellent points everyone. I would like to add another. The patriots like a ball control style of football game, not just on offense. Focusing on stopping big plays and letting teams put together drives full of short plays forces them to eat time away from the clock. This is of course best when playing with a lead or at least a close game. The patriots are very patient and wait for their opportunities rather than trying to force them and risking a big play. Quick scores are the worst outcome you can think of while playing defense. The general philosophy, of course it's a lot more complicated, seems to be to force their opponents to help them eat up the clock and put together a great drive just to get within scoring range.

Of course if they could I'm sure BB would like a turnover on every defensive snap of the game

 

[BTTA]

as a response to the "other" thread: this type of D works well IF you have a strong run defense-that is the #1 prerequisite. it is predicated on not giving up big plays, but stiffening in the red zone. you will often give up a lotta yards. it works very well vs. explosive,fast offenses. why? because once an offense reaches the red zone-speed is obviously negated. its all about power. power running. power, big tall wrs or tes. but that plays right into the pats defensive strengths. the pats are the biggest,most powerful defense in the nfl-not the fastest. theyre one of the best vs. the run. that makes it extremely difficult for offenses to score on them from the red zone. its actually easier for opposing offenses to try to score via a big play from 40+ yards out-than from 20 yards out. everyone knows this. so the pats focus on stopping the big plays. it works. right now, the pats d is ranked #4 in the nfl-behind denver,chi and balt. pats are also #5 in the nfl vs. the run and rank near the top of the league in a bunch of other defensive stats. btw-"total yardage" and "passing yardage" are basically meaningless stats. good teams will often give up a lot of yards-mostly passing, because they have leads and the other team is playing catch-up. plus this type of D gives up yards by design. the best stat to measure pass defense is " opp. qb rating"-which encompasses everything-tds,yds per pass att.,ints,yds, etc. Points allowed is the #1 defensive stat-and how defenses are really ranked. after that-rushing defense is the 2nd most important. the Pats D is also still improving. the secondary gets better by the week, the dl is the best in the nfl and the lbs are solid. even better-among the teams that have top defenses-denver,NE,chi,balt,sd and pitts-the pats have the best OFFENSE-which is also improving by the week. this could be a very scary team by jan.

As the original poster of "the other thread", I'll say that there's nothing in what you've written above that is inconsistent with the original post, and in fact much that agrees with it. In fact, there isn't much disagreement in any of what's been written by 98% of the posts in both threads. Both would be better reading if the "either-or", "win-lose" style gave way to a dialogue.

For an insight into why this happened: The Argument Culture, by Deborah Tannen.

 

[hwc]

If you think about it, a defense that defends the entire field has to play "bend, but don't break". In the middle of the field, the defense must defend 50+ yards deep, with the worst-case scenario plays burning them deep. In order to fully defend those deep plays, the defense has to leave some room underneath.

One the opponent hits the red zone, there is no more deep threat. The back line of the end zone is the defense against deep stuff. Thus, the defense can become more aggressive in defending the areas within 20 yards of the line scrimmage.

If you are as aggressive within 20 yards of scrimmage as the Pats red zone defense is, you WILL get burned deep. We see it every week in the NFL.

 

[RayClay]

Keep the play in front of you. Make the other team complete a lot of short to mid passes. Get lots of opportunities for turnovers. Play more aggressively near the goal line.

It fits our personnel. Requires patience and great team work.

To play the don't bend at all you need to spend a lot on corners and pass rushers IMO.

Our personnel is good at holding explosive teams to slower scoring even if they gain a lot of yards.

Our DLine and LBs don't go for the big play early, they gradually pound the OLine and RB, QB until they're exhausted then crush them.

It's a different philosophy requiring different types of players with the athleticism in huge linemen rather than flash pass rushers and shut down corners.

 

[Flying Fungi]

I don't know why everyone thinks we're bending so much.

10th best in yards allowed.
6th best in rushing yards allowed.
20th in passing yards allowed but most of those were on breaks (Den, NYJ) not bends.

We aren't allowing a lot of yards, and as mentioned the bad stat of passing yards is more based on the defensive breakdowns.

I have been referring to the defensive philosophy as 'containment', with the objectives being to let the other team burn the clock going nowhere and at worst, collecting a FG and at best, forcing a mistake.

Pees' application of Belichick's defense is far more dynamic than Mangini's was (injuries duly noted). The defense is being patient and keeping the play in front of them and then picking moments to attack once trends become obvious.

So I agree with the reality that the defense isn't a prevent or bend/but not break style. Further agreement with Ray Clay's comments.

 

[mgteich]

No team has allowed fewer redzone opportunities to opponents. I believe our defense is also 3rd in redzone TD percentage allowed, and one of the best in points allowed.

This defense is simply great for an opportunistic defense.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

If only we had a coach who understood defenses