Who should have the Patriots taken at 48 instead of Wilson

[FredFromDartmouth]

Yep, he just finished a thread about this pick and for some reason feels compelled to start the conversation all over again. The patriots had a what appears to be a great draft that people would have been foaming at the mouth for had the players simply been listed as choices before the draft, yet the douches just yammer and hammer away because Belichick didn't follow Mel's Big Board. Screw them.

Questioning Wilson is fair game. I love the rest of the draft but I don't think there should be a rule against questioning some of the dubious moves. The management of the second round was really dodgy; what's wrong with questioning it?

Is there some rule where we all have to be Pollyannas? "Oh l love everything Bill did. He can do no wrong. Whoever he picked is perfect. Oh please Mr Monitor; make Fred stop--he is being soooo mean."

 

[patri0t]

Ya me too!

In a couple of years they will be scrambling for a center/guard and might do a reach as they did for safety this year. Would have been better to take Konz this year because he was a good value that dropped right in their lap....but noooooooo they had to reach.

I am sure that Wilson will turn out to be a solid choice...if he was a 5'th rounder....but not as a high second rounder. Championships are won on the second round (I am thinking of the Giants when they got Howard and Collins and Pepper Johnson) but the Patriots love to pee away second rounders.

Ya agreed, it doesn't quite make sense. Hopefully everything pans out correctly to what the Patriots are planning.
This year is ours

 

[patchick]

Questioning Wilson is fair game. I love the rest of the draft but I don't think there should be a rule against questioning some of the dubious moves. The management of the second round was really dodgy; what's wrong with questioning it?

Is there some rule where we all have to be Pollyannas? "Oh l love everything Bill did. He can do no wrong. Whoever he picked is perfect. Oh please Mr Monitor; make Fred stop--he is being soooo mean."

Building straw men, Fred? :nono:

It's totally legitimate to say you don't like the pick and what you wish they'd done instead. Wilson was a controversial choice, and there would be no point to this board if we didn't all have opinions. What people are REALLY leaping all over you for is statements like:

"the Patriots went into panic mode"
"they screwed up as they usually do in round 2"
"the Patriots love to pee away second rounders"

(BTW, we've missed your insights over in the thread analyzing the Pats' ACTUAL record in the 2nd round....)

 

[mayoclinic]

At the risk of introducing substance to the thread, here's a really nice breakdown on Wilson. Yes, I know it's from the Bleacher Report, but it's still really nice, and I highly recommend reading all of it:

Wilson was one of the most intriguing players I watched in evaluation after the draft—I won't claim to have seen him prior to the pick—and I saw a lot of talent to work with. He is a typical Illinois defensive back: Physical, versatile, has issues with his back to the ball in coverage, but there's upside. His versatility stood out immediately because he aligned in a plethora of areas on the field such as safety, boundary cornerback, field cornerback or in the box. The versatility of Wilson was a big reason why he was drafted so high, and it was explained by his former defensive coordinator Vic Koenning: '“The spread offense in the NFL has kind of made linebackers obsolete in many ways. Offenses can now work on mismatches with linebackers in the passing game. If you have a safety that’s big enough who won’t embarrass themselves in run support, you have the best of both worlds."

Koenning's comments bring up a good point about sub-packages and how teams are having issues getting enough quality run defenders in the box while also being prepared against the pass. He showed at Illinois he can play in the box as a run defender, and he's shown he can be effective as a blitzer with his good balance, foot speed and physicality. This versatility is most likely the most significant reason the Patriots decided to spend a second-round pick on him, despite many believing he was not valued as one by draft pundits. When evaluating the draft selection, it's important to keep in mind the trend of today's NFL, which is seeing a lot of multiple receiver sets that force defenses to utilize multiple personnel groupings (sub-packages) in order to defend the pass. This leads to teams having issues against the run, consequently opening up the entire playbook for the offense.

Although he needs to clean up his technique, Wilson's performance last season was good, and he has the potential to develop into a starter, which is what you ask for from a second-round draft choice.

Patriots' Rookie Tavon Wilson: Breaking Down the Enigma of the 48th Pick | Bleacher Report

As I also posted elsewhere, one well known scouting periodical (Phil Steele's) had Wilson as a 4th team mid-season All-American and 1st season All-Big 10 at CB in 2011. Morris Claiborne didn't make their All-American list. It's subjective, but it suggests that at least someone liked the tape of Tavon Wilson.

Phil Steele
Phil Steele

Size, character, leadership, lack of selfishness, experience playing multiple positions in multiple schemes, run sport as well as coverage ability, good tape. For those who are able to put aside blind bias against the Pats for not following the herd mentality or not taking their particularly binky, there's a lot to like about the Wilson pick. He may or may not pan out, like every draft pick, but it seems like a reasonable choice if you go by the tape rather than by the media pre-draft hype.

 

[DaBruinz]

In a couple of years they will be scrambling for a center/guard and might do a reach as they did for safety this year. Would have been better to take Konz this year because he was a good value that dropped right in their lap....but noooooooo they had to reach.

I guess you haven't looked at this teams center depth lately. Besides Connolly and Koppen, they have Wendell and McDonald. McDonald played extremely well last year in his 2 starts. He's YOUNG and, with the re-signing of Connolly and Koppen, may force the Patriots to cut Wendell. You seem to need reminding that the Pats made it a point to keep McDonald even after Connolly and Wendell were both healthy.

You clearly have never read Patriots Reign or War Room and don't understand how the Patriots grade players or set-up their draft board.

It became clear to me when the Patriots re-signed both Connolly and Koppen that they were not going to draft a center and felt that needs in other areas were of bigger importance. They clearly also felt that, because the needs were more in other areas, that Konz wouldn't provide them the value they were looking for in the 2nd round.

 

[mayoclinic]

I guess you haven't looked at this teams center depth lately. Besides Connolly and Koppen, they have Wendell and McDonald. McDonald played extremely well last year in his 2 starts. He's YOUNG and, with the re-signing of Connolly and Koppen, may force the Patriots to cut Wendell. You seem to need reminding that the Pats made it a point to keep McDonald even after Connolly and Wendell were both healthy.

Mike McCarthy was very high on McDonald, and he was touted as a potential future starter at center:

"That kid's going to be a good player," coach Mike McCarthy said. "I think Nick McDonald will be on my team for a long time. I think that kid's coming fast."

McCarthy high on rookie offensive lineman McDonald - JSOnline

Despite McCarthy's prediction, McDonald was cut in a numbers crunch, and the Pack was not happy about losing him - similar to the Pats with Ted Larsen in 2010. The Pats stole him away from several other teams, and, as you say, he performed well in the 2 games that he started, earning praise from Brian Waters among others. There are rumors that the Pats could view him as a future starter:

An under-the-radar hero from 2011, McDonald stepped in nicely. The Patriots warded off several suitors to keep McDonald. They may even view him as a possible future starter, but they like his ability to play guard and center.

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: The Blitz» Blog Archive » Stepping back to examine the Patriots offensive line and its question marks…

At the very least he's a valuable backup who can start in a pinch, which was where Dan Connolly was 2-3 years ago. McDonald has nice size at 6'4" 310# and is only 24 (he'll turn 25 in a month).

It became clear to me when the Patriots re-signed both Connolly and Koppen that they were not going to draft a center and felt that needs in other areas were of bigger importance. They clearly also felt that, because the needs were more in other areas, that Konz wouldn't provide them the value they were looking for in the 2nd round.

With Koppen, Connolly, McDonald (and now Jamey Richard), it didn't make sense to spend a high pick on Peter Konz unless the Pats viewed him as really exceptional. And while Konz was touted as a possible late 1st round draft pick, he went a full round later. The Ravens, who were the team most widely projected as being interested in Konz, passed on him at both 29 and 35. They probably could have traded up to take him in the 2nd round before Atlanta eventually took Konz at 55, but there is no evidence that they actually tried to do so, instead sitting tight at 60 and taking OG Kelechi Osemele. Again, it seems that teams had less interest in Konz than the draft pundits predicted.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Building straw men, Fred? :nono:

It's totally legitimate to say you don't like the pick and what you wish they'd done instead. Wilson was a controversial choice, and there would be no point to this board if we didn't all have opinions. What people are REALLY leaping all over you for is statements like:

"the Patriots went into panic mode"
"they screwed up as they usually do in round 2"
"the Patriots love to pee away second rounders"

(BTW, we've missed your insights over in the thread analyzing the Pats' ACTUAL record in the 2nd round....)

Oh and since when has this site featured polite and respectful discourse and gentlemanly discussions? Ah....like never.

I still think that they panic'ed. The second round did not go as planned. There is no way that BB went into day two saying to himself "Well today I think I will reach for a 4 round safety and then get raped by GB in a trade down." Nope; something went wrong. The board did not fall as expected. Consider:

1. It is almost certain that they planed to trade down in round 2. There is no way that the Patriots would skip day three. I think we can all agree on that.
2. They probably had a trade partner for 48.
3. Their trade partner yanked the offer before 48 because the guy they wanted came off the board.
4. The Patriots were left gasping for air....

 

[Sciz]

Oh and since when has this site featured polite and respectful discourse and gentlemanly discussions? Ah....like never.

I still think that they panic'ed. The second round did not go as planned. There is no way that BB went into day two saying to himself "Well today I think I will reach for a 4 round safety and then get raped by GB in a trade down." Nope; something went wrong. The board did not fall as expected. Consider:

1. It is almost certain that they planed to trade down in round 2. There is no way that the Patriots would skip day three. I think we can all agree on that.
2. They probably had a trade partner for 48.
3. Their trade partner yanked the offer before 48 because the guy they wanted came off the board.
4. The Patriots were left gasping for air....

So they take the highest guy on their board. Not that hard. That's not panicking in the slightest.

 

[mayoclinic]

Something went wrong. The board did not fall as expected. Consider:

1. It is almost certain that they planed to trade down in round 2. There is no way that the Patriots would skip day three. I think we can all agree on that.
2. They probably had a trade partner for 48.
3. Their trade partner yanked the offer before 48 because the guy they wanted came off the board.
4. The Patriots were left gasping for air....

Fred, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the JFK assassination. I imagine you have some pretty creative conspiracy theories, based on your ability to jump to conclusions with no evidential basis whatsoever.

 

[DaBruinz]

Oh and since when has this site featured polite and respectful discourse and gentlemanly discussions? Ah....like never.

I still think that they panic'ed. The second round did not go as planned. There is no way that BB went into day two saying to himself "Well today I think I will reach for a 4 round safety and then get raped by GB in a trade down." Nope; something went wrong. The board did not fall as expected. Consider:
It is almost certain that they planed to trade down in round 2. There is no way that the Patriots would skip day three. I think we can all agree on that.
They probably had a trade partner for 48.
Their trade partner yanked the offer before 48 because the guy they wanted came off the board.
The Patriots were left gasping for air....

Saying that you are actually thinking when you post would be a huge surprise to everyone who has ever read a single one of your rants.

From your blathering about Gilette Stadium's turf causing injuries to your hatred for just about every pick Belichick makes.

The idea that they got taken advantage of by Green Bay only makes sense if you use the antiquated Draft Value Chart that Jimmy Johnson came up with 20 years ago. That chart has all but become worthless with the rookie salary slotting that went into effect. Also, people who complain that the Pats should have made a trade with Denver, well, who says that Denver wanted to trade with the Pats?

To say that the Pats "panicked" tells me you are absolutely clueless about Bill Belichick. He doesn't panic over football decisions. Not during the season. Not at the draft.

Yes, draft sites had Wilson rated low. But, guess what. Many of those sites get it wrong every year. That's why there are busts in the 1st round. That's why there are guys like Terrell Davis and Tom Brady and Troy Brown and Arian Foster who go late in the draft or not at all and go on to be superstars.

Fred, you get mocked because you act like a troll. That's what happens to most troll/troll-like people. Change your tune and maybe people will treat you better.

 

[mayoclinic]

Dan Pompei from the NFP had an interesting take on Green Bay GM Ted Thompson in today's weekly column:

NFP Sunday Blitz | National Football Post

It's a good read, and Thompson sounds a lot like BB in his approach to the draft:

One of the qualities that makes the Packers general manager so good is his draft philosophy is fluid, and flexible, always changing based on circumstances. That was evident in the recent draft.

One of the hallmarks of a Thompson draft is the trade down. In his seven previous drafts as G.M., Thompson made 16 tradedowns and only three tradeups. Moving down clearly has been his preferred trade mode.

And what did he do in this draft? Trade up. Three times.

2 of those trades were with the Pats (for #62 and for #160). Fred calls one of those trades a "rape". Arguably Thompson's most famous trade up was also with the Pats, trading up to 26 in 2009 for Clay Matthews.

A lot of people have questioned the trade up by Green Bay to take Jerel Worthy at #51, because Worthy seems like a questionable fit for the Packers' defense. But Thompson saw it differently:

When they saw Worthy still on the board in the middle of the round, Thompson’s eyes got big. They moved up to the 19th pick to take him, giving up a fourth round pick in the process.

“It’s always hard to give up the picks,” Thompson said. “Draft picks are very important. We don’t just casually do it. But if there comes a moment in time in the draft when we feel it’s too good to turn down, we do it. We thought Worthy was a very good value at that point of the draft. We were a little surprised he was still there.”

Thompson obviously felt that Worthy's skill set could be a fit for the Packers. It's a good reminder that guys like BB and Thompson may see value where other people don't. They make mistakes like everyone, but the basic approach is sound and works well in the long run.

 

[Water Boy]

At the risk of introducing substance to the thread, here's a really nice breakdown on Wilson. Yes, I know it's from the Bleacher Report, but it's still really nice, and I highly recommend reading all of it:

I guess I'm coming around a little on Wilson. There's no doubt he's solid against the run and I can see the trend of teams needing DBs who are very solid in run support. IMO though he's a JAG pass defender. You'd think there would be several players in the draft with that type of skill set.

 

[Off The Grid]

1 ~ It's perfectly reasonable to say that you hated the Wilson Pick. I know I did.

2 ~ It's also perfectly reasonable to say that you believe it was a mistake. Bill's made plenty.

3 ~ But to suggest that Emperor Palpatine panicked...is just funny.

4 ~ As I've said before ~ and I'm surprised no one commented:The failure of the Patriots and the Broncos to get together on a trade for #62 could only have been on Elway, if you think it through. Rookie mistake.

 

[mayoclinic]

But to suggest that Emperor Palpatine panicked...is just funny.

Sith Lords never panic. Nor do they get "raped".

 

[ZoisKing]

I guess I'm coming around a little on Wilson. There's no doubt he's solid against the run and I can see the trend of teams needing DBs who are very solid in run support. IMO though he's a JAG pass defender. You'd think there would be several players in the draft with that type of skill set.

After he was drafted, and video started becoming available of him, I still didn't see a 2nd round pick, but its not like I had all the information at my disposal.

I trust in what BB does, because he's definitely better than most, and has built a wonderful team out of rubble the past few years. I'm counting on him to continue to do so, and if he makes a pick that surprised me than it makes me more eager to see what I'm missing.

 

[patchick]

At the risk of introducing substance to the thread, here's a really nice breakdown on Wilson. Yes, I know it's from the Bleacher Report, but it's still really nice, and I highly recommend reading all of it:

Thanks, Mayo -- that may be the most calm and informative article in the history of the Bleacher Report.

I think there's a natural tendency to underrate jack-of-all-trades types in the draft process. When you filter for notable stats or measurables or abilities, they never stand out. Often their biggest contributions are away from the play, or simply not being a liability at any down and distance when the offense is running hurry-up.

IF Wilson can be that kind of versatile, dependable, under-the-radar guy in the NFL, I'd be more than happy.

 

[mrscruff]

Thanks, Mayo -- that may be the most calm and informative article in the history of the Bleacher Report.

It was written by Alen Dumonjic who provided analysis in "Inside the Matchup" series as part of Greg Bedard's game previews last season.

 

[Sciz]

It was written by Alen Dumonjic who provided analysis in "Inside the Matchup" series as part of Greg Bedard's game previews last season.

Yeah, I've found that Bleacher Report articles are often more about the author than the site. He's a good author who knows what he's talking about, no matter what site it's on.

 

[captain stone]

4 ~ As I've said before ~ and I'm surprised no one commented:The failure of the Patriots and the Broncos to get together on a trade for #62 could only have been on Elway, if you think it through. Rookie mistake.

It's not unreasonable to conclude that Elway was late getting it together for a 62 - 87 & 120 trade;
but with whom does the fault lie for not executing the 48 - 59 & 123 trade which GB eventually
made for Philly's 51?

(And let's please not fool ourselves into believing that another team would've scooped up Wilson
btwn 48 & 59. We all know in our hearts that that wasn't going to happen, ever.)

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Saying that you are actually thinking when you post would be a huge surprise to everyone who has ever read a single one of your rants.

From your blathering about Gilette Stadium's turf causing injuries to your hatred for just about every pick Belichick makes.

To say that the Pats "panicked" tells me you are absolutely clueless about Bill Belichick. He doesn't panic over football decisions. Not during the season. Not at the draft.
.

Insulting me is hardly a nice way to start a post. But I forget that insults and personal attacks are the order of the day on this nasty site.

As far as the turf; I was right. The Patriots admitted as much when they ripped it up and replaced it; it was a miserable surface. Daniel Graham said it was hard as as rock in an interview.

So you guys shelled me when I said Albert Hayneswoth would not last half the season. You also killed me when I said that Ron Brace was a flounder. Now I am getting killed for saying the the Patriots panic'ed in round 2 so ho-hum....