Who should have the Patriots taken at 48 instead of Wilson

[patchick]

It would be a very high standard to require that a pick at a given level be better than all available alternatives in order to be considered successful.

:yeahthat:

It's an easy mistake to fall into the mindset of "it's not enough that we succeed, others must fail."

For instance, a dozen years ago the Giants managed to nab a multiyear starter at LB, Dhani Jones, in round 6. That's a great pick, right? It doesn't become a bad pick just because Tom Brady was still available. (If it did, then even Brian Urlacher at #9 overall was a bad pick.)

 

[dryheat44]

Brock Williams,
Bethel Johnson,
Guss Scott,
Dexter Reid,
Cedric Cobbs (instead of Michael Turner),
Stomper Meriweather,
Kareem Brown,
Clint Oldenburg,
Mike Richardson,
Justise Hairston,
Oscar Lua,
Mike Elgin,
Terry Wheatley (instead of Terrell Thomas),
Chicken Legs (instead of Cliff Avril),
Kevin O'Connell
Johnny Wilhite,
"Pro-Bowler"(snicker) Matty Slater,
Lil' Bo Ruud,
Busto Brace (instead of Connor Barwin),
Brandon Tate,
Lil' Richie OBurger,
George Bustey,
Jermaine Cunnyham,
and Glas-IR Dowling (instead of Jabaal Sheard)
all say Thanks for having our backs.

Well now you're just being obtuse. Probably intentionally.

1) You realize that there are 53 spots on the roster. You seem to be of mind that the Patriots shouldn't draft anymore people, because there's 53 on the roster. You also seem to think that Belichick shouldn't sign people like Brian Waters or Rodney Harrison, because then Rich Ohrenburger and Antwaun Harris get knocked off the roster, and then Belichick was an idiot for drafting them. We shouldn't have used any draft picks this year at all, because Ron Brace, Myron Pryor, and Markelle Carter might get knocked off the roster. More ammunition for you, I guess.

2) At first count, I see 10 guys on that list that were 5-7 picks. Those guys shouldn't make the roster, and if they do, they shouldn't last more than one year. I think your standards are a bit high. Meriweather was a four year starter. Reid and Johnson were core special teams guys for 3 years. If you can get a guy with a seventh rounder who's a good scout team player and never makes the active roster, it's a good value. And we're going to throw in a guy who was starting last year until he got hurt, and another late pick who excels on special teams? Some of these other guys are still in the league contributing, so obviously they have talent.

3) Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Asante Samuel, Tom Brady, Matt Cassel, Deion Branch, Brian Hoyer, Kevin Faulk, Logan Mankins, Pat Chung, Devin McCourty, Stephen Gostkowski, Ben Watson, Daniel Graham, Matt Light, Dan Koppen, Sebastian Vollmer, Nate Solder, Stevan Ridley, Zoltan Mesko, Jerod Mayo, Randy Moss, Wes Welker

4) The man's got to 5 out of 11 possible Super Bowls. I don't think he needs to take a lesson from us in how to evaluate talent and build a winning roster.

 

[Off The Grid]

Brother Sull, I don't think there's a Soul on Earth who thought otherwise.

I said so many times, myself, in these pages, dating all the way back to October.

That doesn't mean he wouldn't've been phenomenal in a 425, a 245, and a 434, among others.

No doubt he would have been very good in our Sub Packages.

My only contention as far at the pick at 48 is concerned is does Wilson's value in the 3-4, 4-3, 425, 245, 434 e.t.c outweigh that sub package impact of someone like David in the 2nd.

I actually said, the post right before the one you quoted, that David would be an asset in any Package.

That is not a universally held opinion, but it is certainly mine.

Just clearing that up, Bro. Like you, I'm willing to give Brother Bill the Benefit of the Doubt.

 

[DaBruinz]

Brock Williams,
Bethel Johnson,
Guss Scott,
Dexter Reid,
Cedric Cobbs (instead of Michael Turner),
Stomper Meriweather,
Kareem Brown,
Clint Oldenburg,
Mike Richardson,
Justise Hairston,
Oscar Lua,
Mike Elgin,
Terry Wheatley (instead of Terrell Thomas),
Chicken Legs (instead of Cliff Avril),
Kevin O'Connell
Johnny Wilhite,
"Pro-Bowler"(snicker) Matty Slater,
Lil' Bo Ruud,
Busto Brace (instead of Connor Barwin),
Brandon Tate,
Lil' Richie OBurger,
George Bustey,
Jermaine Cunnyham,
and Glas-IR Dowling (instead of Jabaal Sheard)
all say Thanks for having our backs.

Matt Slater continues to be a damn good late round pick, contrary to your imbecilic rants.

Ras-I Dowling missed how many games over his college career? How do you know how Sheard would have performed in the Pats defense? You don't.

Meriweather was an above average safety for 4 years.

You fault BB for taking Cobbs and not Turner, yet Turner had a long history of hamstring problems heading in to the draft that year. I can just hear you b!tching and moaning about THAT had the Pats taken Turner and he not worked out.

BTW, the 2007 draft was one of the worst drafts in the history of the league.


OH, one last thing. Could you show us some of your mock drafts for the Patriots from the various years? I'd love to see all the MISSES you'd have drafted.

 

[DaBruinz]

"I LOVE this post; not that it will do anything to enlighten the truly delusional who think they are better talent evaluators/drafters than those who actually do it for a living, as evidenced by some of the posts in this thread.

For anyone reading this, if you had the power to overrule BB at the time the picks were made, and you would willingly exercise that power, then you are the kind of poster I am referring to"

No, this is what he said, whether your interpretation is what he meant is something different.

As for this, "It is beyond delusional to think that we're right and Belichick's wrong. Ever", I couldnt disagree more. Having information is one thing, using it well is another.

Just wanted to say that I love the irony that Captain Stone ,probably the most delusional person on this board when it comes to talent evaluation in comparison to Belichick, "LIKED" your post, SnakeEyes. Guess he didn't realize you were talking about him.

 

[DaBruinz]

If you don't feel qualified to make a hypothetical pick than don't do it but please refrain from trashing someone who thinks that, in a specific instance that could have actually done better than BB.

How do you KNOW you could have done better than BB in this SPECIFIC instance? Wilson hasn't even taken the field yet. And neither has any player mentioned. For all we know, Wilson could be an ALL-PRO and whomever else has been suggested, a bust. Or vice-versa.

And, in all honesty, FredfromDartmouth was being his typical arrogant arse of a self with his question. He's done this the last few years with picks he hasn't liked. And people like myself and dryheat point out things that show how people ignore huge amounts of data that they don't have. And because they don't have it, they pretend like it doesn't exist.

 

[Snake Eyes]

How do you KNOW you could have done better than BB in this SPECIFIC instance? Wilson hasn't even taken the field yet. And neither has any player mentioned. For all we know, Wilson could be an ALL-PRO and whomever else has been suggested, a bust. Or vice-versa.

And, in all honesty, FredfromDartmouth was being his typical arrogant arse of a self with his question. He's done this the last few years with picks he hasn't liked. And people like myself and dryheat point out things that show how people ignore huge amounts of data that they don't have. And because they don't have it, they pretend like it doesn't exist.

I don't know, nor did I claim to.

 

[captain stone]

I'm afraid that I didn't care for either, Bro: I don't trust Still's Motor, and I don't like Worthy's Core Strength.

You mentioned Taamu. I would've LOVED him in the 4th.

But all told, I didn't like the D Tackle Class at ALL, so I would've held fire on all them, signed Fanene ~ God Bless Mad Bill!! ~ and gone after Aubrayo Franklin, while awaiting the 2013 Class.

Franklin's still available, I believe:
Best Available NFL Free Agents - Defense | The Sideline View

 

[mayoclinic]

Franklin's still available, I believe:
Best Available NFL Free Agents - Defense | The Sideline View

Franklin could be a very useful pickup, to limit VWs snap count and keep him fresh. But there is a numbers crunch at the interior DL: Wilfork, Love, Pryor, Warren, Fanene and Deaderick are likely right now, with Brace, Forston and Harrison on the outside. I'm guessing the Pats will take a "wait and see" approach, and at least get a handle on personnel in OTAs and the upcoming minicamp. But if there are injuries or questions, I could see the Pats bringing Franklin in for a look. I'd love it, personally.

 

[Water Boy]

I respectfully disagree. Doubtless one or more of the other players coveted in this thread will turn out to be total studs (and one or more will be total busts). But a respectable NFL starting safety was the team's most glaring need, and they've become mighty hard to find.

If Wilson reaches that respectable starter level, the incremental value to this championship-caliber team will be tremendous and I will consider the pick successful, period.

I respectfully respect your disagreement with my premise, patchick. ; )

I think the speed at which he reaches the respectable starter level will go a long way toward shaping my opinion of this pick. Eugene Wilson was a solid contributor early on in his career so I think he may not have been the best example to use.

 

[Ivan]

And, in all honesty, FredfromDartmouth was being his typical arrogant arse of a self with his question. He's done this the last few years with picks he hasn't liked. And people like myself and dryheat point out things that show how people ignore huge amounts of data that they don't have. And because they don't have it, they pretend like it doesn't exist.

Yep, he just finished a thread about this pick and for some reason feels compelled to start the conversation all over again. The patriots had a what appears to be a great draft that people would have been foaming at the mouth for had the players simply been listed as choices before the draft, yet the douches just yammer and hammer away because Belichick didn't follow Mel's Big Board. Screw them.

 

[AzPatsFan]

First off, if there are scouts who I respect, why can't I give value to their opinions?

Next, if I look at tape and just don't like what I see from a player, is that valid?

Finally, what if I simply think that other players would have offered more value, is that legit? Wilson might have been available later, he might not have, hell, maybe someone would have pulled an Al Davis and drafted him in the first, does that mean we should have drafted him before Jones and Hightower? The point is to get maximum value, on the field, with the draft capital you're working with, I think the pick could have been better spent elsewhere.

Why?? The biggest "hole" is RS or FS. What good is a "better "player if he is cut, and merely stocks some loser like the Clots?

 

[Snake Eyes]

Why?? The biggest "hole" is RS or FS. What good is a "better "player if he is cut, and merely stocks some loser like the Clots?

- a hole might be at FS but just throwing a body at it doesnt exactly work very well to fill holes.

- Why would you assume the other player I'd prefer would be cut? How do you know he doesnt turn into a stud?

 

[AzPatsFan]

- a hole might be at FS but just throwing a body at it doesn't exactly work very well to fill holes.

- Why would you assume the other player I'd prefer would be cut? How do you know he doesn't turn into a stud?

The probability is there is less room at another "better stocked" position. OTOH, do you think that Tavon Wilson can take Sergio Brown's job?

If so, then the pick was valid, i.e. the Team is better, and Belichick has Game, Set, Match. You lose...:snob:

 

[Snake Eyes]

The probability is there is less room at another "better stocked" position. OTOH, do you think that Tavon Wilson can take Sergio Brown's job?

If so, then the pick was valid, i.e. the Team is better, and Belichick has Game, Set, Match. You lose...:snob:

Define "room". I'm not talking about just having bodies, I'm talking about having players.

Will he be better than Brown, I don't know.

All that being the case, just improving the position doesn't mean the pick was "good", if you net a 5% improvement at one position is that really a win compared to a 35% improvement at another?

Also, please drop the attitude, if you have a valid point you should be able to make it without being condescending.

 

[patri0t]

I would have preferred Peter Konz. Personally I think the Patriots rushed into it because the Chargers were interested. But I'm not against the pick, and can't wait to see Wilson on the field

 

[Water Boy]

- a hole might be at FS but just throwing a body at it doesnt exactly work very well to fill holes.

With Merriweather gone there are no A holes at FS.

 

[Off The Grid]

- a hole might be at FS...

With Merriweather gone there are no A holes at FS.

FTW, Brother Kurt!!

 

[Water Boy]

FTW, Brother Kurt!!

Thanks Brother OTG.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I would have preferred Peter Konz. Personally I think the Patriots rushed into it because the Chargers were interested. But I'm not against the pick, and can't wait to see Wilson on the field

Ya me too!

In a couple of years they will be scrambling for a center/guard and might do a reach as they did for safety this year. Would have been better to take Konz this year because he was a good value that dropped right in their lap....but noooooooo they had to reach.

I am sure that Wilson will turn out to be a solid choice...if he was a 5'th rounder....but not as a high second rounder. Championships are won on the second round (I am thinking of the Giants when they got Howard and Collins and Pepper Johnson) but the Patriots love to pee away second rounders.