Who in this draft can contribute immediately on defense?

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Andre Smith is a top 5 guy. I think he's probably as highly regarded as Clady, and we know how Clady turned out. I agree he's a nobrainer but I don't see any way he'd slip to 23.

I have a feeling that Oher might slide out of the top 15 for some reason (maybe team needs)but I love this kid and would defiantly pull the trigger if he was there at #23. Another kid who may slide is Jason Smith because of his toughness what about him at #23 if he makes it....he is ultra athleatic and a great pass protector. One OT that I expect to be there at #23 is Britton from Arizona but I think there may be better value at other positions at that point in the draft.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I basically agree but for one spot and player. I'm know I'm just a broken record but a young, big, fast, mean, complete, smart, team-leading ILB, next to Mayo would work wonders. His names start with a J and end with an S...

I was thinking of a versatile, hungry DE->OLB conversion whose names start with a C and ends with an N.

 

[spann31]

Andra Davis is a smart veteran linebacker who has played in a 3-4 his whole life. has kind of been sliding in production the last few years but he is a FA this year and can still be a starter in this league. He should not be too expensive either. Anybody?

 

[mayoclinic]

I was thinking of a versatile, hungry DE->OLB conversion whose names start with a C and ends with an N.

I'll second that suggestion. I think he could possibly move inside and be a great SILB complement to Mayo.

 

[DaBruinz]

In the absurd Trade Brady thread in the other section of this forum, some misguided forumers were ready to ship Brady for day 1 picks and "rebuild the defense". It got me to thinking, even if we managed to trade Cassel for a high first round pick, for instance, who is there in this draft that will come in and be an immediate upgrade? Who could be like Mayo, Seymour, Mankins or any of the other players recently drafted by the Pats who started most or all of their rookie year.

Aaron Curry is the only guy I can think of, he's going top 5.

All the CBs, Smith, Moore, they're all fine - but none is a huge upgrade, particularly short term, over what we have, and won't start their rookie year.

Sintim sounds fine by me, but he will take time, whether he plays outside or inside.

Basically, looking at this draft, I do not see a single player, like Mayo, who can come in and start Year 1 on the defensive side of the ball. Maybe that's not a problem, and maybe our contributions will come from the Sophomores (Wheatley, Wilhite, Crable), not the rookies. As it is, our defensive woes have been greatly exaggerated and we go into 09 in much better shape than the pundits and many forumers would have us believe.

But, if we are looking for an immediate impact player in this draft in Day 1, I think its going to be either WR or TE. I'd say OL b/c there are some good prospects, but nobody is beating any of the incumbents out of a job right now.

I think that the only players who could come in and win a job right now would be Max Unger, Alex Mack, or Levitre and at the RG position. But that is only if Neal is injured. One of the OTs may be able to, but I think thatits going to be hard to jump both Levoir and Kaczur.

 

[DaBruinz]

Andra Davis is a smart veteran linebacker who has played in a 3-4 his whole life. has kind of been sliding in production the last few years but he is a FA this year and can still be a starter in this league. He should not be too expensive either. Anybody?

This is false. Andra Davis hasn't played in the 3-4 his whole life. The Browns didn't use the 3-4 prior to Crennel getting there. Davis was the MLB for them. The question is whether or not Davis can be the SILB for the Pats.

 

[BradyManny]

I think that the only players who could come in and win a job right now would be Max Unger, Alex Mack, or Levitre and at the RG position. But that is only if Neal is injured. One of the OTs may be able to, but I think thatits going to be hard to jump both Levoir and Kaczur.

Agree about Kaczur, I doubt jumping Levoir would be that hard. He played well in Kaczur's place, but he's not a real high upside guy, and if we draft an offensive lineman, I don't think anybody past the starters is ensured a roster spot at that point. I like O'Callaghan more than Levoir, and O'Cal has played well as a starter in the handful of chances he's had, but he's been injured often.

 

[BradyManny]

No Hamlin? Oh yee of the degrading memory... :ugh:

Now to BManny's question -- first identify the hole:

LT - Light, LG - Mankins, C - Koppen, RG - Neal, RT - Kaczur
TE - Watson, RB - Maroney, QB - Brady, WR - Moss, WR - Welker
DE - Seymour, NT - Wilfork, DE - Warren
OLB - Woods, ILB - Mayo, ILB - Thomas, OLB - Vrabel
CB - Hobbs, S - Meriweather, S - open, CB - Wilhite

The one open slot can be addressed by re-signing James Sanders.

This may not be the ideal line-up, but it's a servicable one with young players who were measurably improving towards the end of the season (or prior to going on IR).

The next question, is where are the holes in the depth chart for situational players?

LT - Levoir, LG - Yates/Connelly, C - Connelly/Wendell, RG - Yates/Connelly, RT - Levoir/O'Callaghan
DE - Green/Smith, NT - open, DE - Green/Smith
OLB - open*, ILB - Guyton, ILB - Guyton, OLB - open*
CB - Wheatley/Richardson, S - Spann, S - Spann, CB - Wheatley/Richardson
* Redd took some reps at OLB towards the end of the season, but I'm not sure he's advanced enough to be part of the rotation yet.

rNT can be addressed by re-signing Wright.
rOLB either comes out of the developmental pool of Crable, Redd, Craig, Ruud, and Robertson, or by drafting a 3-4 experienced OLB (Sintim, Cushing, Matthews) or finding someone if FA or trade. I vote for Sintim.

Good way of looking at it. You have me on the bandwagon for AD to SILB. I personally have Wheatley starting over Wilhite, only since Wilhite spent so much time working as a slot corner last year, and Wheatley was on his way to starting across from Hobbs before the injury. Of course, I can see it going the other way given Wilhite's play down the stretch.

The lineup with Woods looks fine to me, and even better, when the team goes to a nickel package, or is more concerned with defending the pass, Adalius can move to OLB, Guyton can move in to SILB.

I would also say it worth looking at the nickel and dime packages.

For the nickel, if its a 3-3-5, then I see Adalius sliding back to outside, and Guyton and Mayo the other two linebackers on the field. Wilhite/Wheatley (whichever one doesn't start) takes the 5th DB spot. If it's a 2-4-5, then Adalius still moves to OLB and Guyton comes in as an ILB.

Basically my point is - Adalius's versatility helps fill out the roster in the base D and the nickel packages.


Of course, if this team does want to make a splash that dramatically improves this defense in the short term, I see two ways of doing it and both involve free agency or even trades. Somehow sign Suggs, move AD to SILB for base 3-4, again, AD to OLB on pass rushing downs, so you have Suggs and AD on the edge. Or, obtain Asomugha from Oakland and have him shut down one side of the field.

Asides from that, as I said, I don't see immediate upgrades in the draft or via free agency, and we'll have to rely on what we have, which I think is pretty good, and will get increasingly better as the season progresses. I wish I had seen more from Wheatley & Crable before the injuries, but I'm sure BB knows what he has there.

 

[BradyManny]

At safety right now, you'd only have to improve on Antwain Spann. Nothing against Spann, who is a useful player, but I have to believe that somewhere in this draft is a guy who could beat him out. Malcolm Jenkins at FS should certainly fill that bill. (BTW, why does Michael Hamlin's name never come up in our safety discussions?)

Only watched them in their bowl game, but I thought Hamlin looked good, and so did his fellow safety back there, Clemons, who I think is a late round option.

 

[patchick]

No Hamlin? Oh yee of the degrading memory... :ugh:

Err...I was away for a while.

Can you spare me a quick recap?

 

[maverick4]

Belichick could turn Aaron Curry into the next Lawrence Taylor 2.0

 

[tjones7]

I was thinking of a versatile, hungry DE->OLB conversion whose names start with a C and ends with an N.

Im thinking along the same lines however his name starts with E and ends with N(Everette Brown) from FSU. Perfect size, speed and agility. This link has a fairly in-depth (and homer) analysis of his play during his FSU days.

Exit Interview: EveretteBrown - Tomahawk Nation

A high motor, high character guy as well. Has garnered comparisons to DeMarcus Ware.

Only problem I see is that right now we seem to be a bit out of his range and if he blows up the Combine as expected he might be a top 10 pick, perhaps to the Chiefs.

 

[spann31]

This is false. Andra Davis hasn't played in the 3-4 his whole life. The Browns didn't use the 3-4 prior to Crennel getting there. Davis was the MLB for them. The question is whether or not Davis can be the SILB for the Pats.

ok u were right but still not many teams are looking at him. We could probably get him with a two year deal. Hes big 250 pounds. Probably not the quickest guy but hes not bad in pass defense and hes smart and a team leader. Also good character. At this point in his carrer hes probily dying to play for a winner. If New England calls he will probably answer.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Err...I was away for a while.

Can you spare me a quick recap?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...-needs-analysis-safety-page2.html#post1212480

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...afting-safety-replace-rodney.html#post1132901

 

[captain stone]

I'm wondering if we'd be better off with Vrable at SILB and leaving Thomas at OLB for one more year until a Crable or Redd develop (Mayo/Woods being the other starters). Thoughts?

I completely agree. Why in the world should we move our only remaining pass-rusher inside so that the older, slower, more broken-down Vrabel can remain outside? That makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever.

 

[captain stone]

Not the best answer,

1) Thomas has coverage speed Vrabes never had.

2) Thomas has also worked off the LOS much more in his career than Vrabes and in my estimation is ahead of Vrabes at reading/reacting from ILB.

3) Finally, I think Vrabes has reached a more "delicate" phase of his career, I'd prefer he not take the greater abuse of an ILB.

1) He also has pass-rushing speed that Vrabel no longer has.

2) I don't know if either is true, and at this point in time, the difference is prob. negligible, if not irrelevent.

3) Vrabel has reached the "at the end" phase of his career, so what difference does it really make if he takes more of a pounding at SILB than at OLB? He has only next year left anyway - two tops. Why should he be protected?

 

[BradyManny]

I completely agree. Why in the world should we move our only remaining pass-rusher inside so that the older, slower, more broken-down Vrabel can remain outside? That makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever.

You move him outside in the base 3-4 only. In the nickel packages, Guyton comes in, Adalius can move back outside and rush or drop. In the base D, the OLBs are playing run first and not tee-ing off anyway.

Its simple:

At SILB, Adalius is better against the run and better in coverage than Vrabel.
At OLB, Vrabel is still as good - and perhaps better - at setting the edge than Adalius.

So it makes no sense to keep Adalius outside and move Vrabel inside when they are in the base 3-4 defense, [which they used on the downs in which teams run more than they pass.]

 

[captain stone]

You move him outside in the base 3-4 only. In the nickel packages, Guyton comes in, Adalius can move back outside and rush or drop. In the base D, the OLBs are playing run first and not tee-ing off anyway.

Its simple:

At SILB, Adalius is better against the run and better in coverage than Vrabel.
At OLB, Vrabel is still as good - and perhaps better - at setting the edge than Adalius.

So it makes no sense to keep Adalius outside and move Vrabel inside when they are in the base 3-4 defense, [which they used on the downs in which teams run more than they pass.]

Well-put, and I can agree with it, too, as long as the opposing offense cooperates by running the ball. Sadly, I no longer see Vrabel as a pass-rusher of any consequence. I just hope that one of Woods, Crable, Redd, one of the PSers, a UFA or draft pick can help fill the glaring void that age & injury has created.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

1) He also has pass-rushing speed that Vrabel no longer has.

2) I don't know if either is true, and at this point in time, the difference is prob. negligible, if not irrelevent.

3) Vrabel has reached the "at the end" phase of his career, so what difference does it really make if he takes more of a pounding at SILB than at OLB? He has only next year left anyway - two tops. Why should he be protected?

Howdy Capt. Downer, long time no see! :rocker:

1. I'm not going to assume he's lost anything without further data. Adalius may or may not be a better pass rusher in 2009 - that's what all that Training Camp stuff is for.

2. Adalius is better inside than Vrabel. I see no value in taking a player who may or may not be hitting his age limit and playing him at a position where he'd be even weaker. I'd start Guyton before I'd do that.

3. Are you one of those officers who views his troopers as cannon fodder? Sheesh.

 

[captain stone]

Howdy Capt. Downer, long time no see! :rocker:

1. I'm not going to assume he's lost anything without further data. Adalius may or may not be a better pass rusher in 2009 - that's what all that Training Camp stuff is for.

2. Adalius is better inside than Vrabel. I see no value in taking a player who may or may not be hitting his age limit and playing him at a position where he'd be even weaker. I'd start Guyton before I'd do that.

3. Are you one of those officers who views his troopers as cannon fodder? Sheesh.

Thanks, Mr. Box; I would post more, but my entries seem to be caught in an as-yet-unexplained time warp lasting a couple of days. Kinda makes it hard to keep current in a thread.

As for poor ol' Mike, he'll turn 34 before Opening Day. How many OLB/DEs, one of whose duties is to rush the QB, are effective at age 34 and can still display the required explosiveness & closing speed? What I saw throughout this past season from him is what happens to everyone, eventually, and I don't see how being another year older will improve the situation. That's why I feel that he is now better-suited to help us at SILB, as he did in '05 after the miserable failure of the Beisel/Brown disaster.

After all, what are NFL players if not (well-paid) cannon fodder?