Where have all the b1tchers gone?

[PatsCanDoIt]

I just noticed that our first two picks have brothers already in the league.

 

[BritPat]

Awwe, poor little BritPat, I've hurt your little feelings. Hate to tell you young man, I have more football knowledge than in my pinkie than you have in your whole body. I live breathe and dream football, and unlike you, I've played American football. So take off your rose colored Pat's sunglasses, and look around, BB has been awful at drafting the last 5 years passing up stars for JAG's. The proof is there for all to see.

But like I said, I love the Pats, hate that they've been drafting terribly, and always hope they are right despite drafting unknowns and JAG's, and always wishing these guys turn into stars that help us win championships. Unfortunately they haven't, and BB has been wrong dozens of times the last few years.

Hell, I've been living and breathing Pats drafts since the Mike Haynes/Tim Fox days, I doubt you even know who those guys were. Google it.

Ha ha. Sorry son, you talk a good game, but sadly the rest of your posts say otherwise.

You're a whiny punk sat at home behind his computer screen thumping the keyboard because you're clueless and haven't a clue about the sport or the team you watch.

Thanks for playing though. Now, be quiet whilst the adults talk.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I believe this was the type of thing PJ was talking about when he said the board is in serious need of moderation. Is the insulting tone and the "homer" talk really needed? Nope.

Also, people who claim since they played football they have more knowlegde about it than someone who didn't...it's no better than the posters who claim since they build good teams on Madden they know how to run a franchise.

This.

Seriously. I would like to add in that the reason I don't get geeked for every draft is that it is a crap shoot. Read it again, slowly. It. Is. A. Crap. Shoot.

You can play the opposite game and look at the guys the draftniks are stoked about that come to nothing, or the guys other teams drafted never heard from again. For every "We didn't get ___, wahhhh!" thread there could be a "we didn't get ki-jana carter, we didn't get Ryan leaf, we didn't get Jeff George, we didn't get Mike Williams" thread.

You can quantify how well a team does in the draft by the team's long-term health. The Colts, Chargers, and Steelers are always impressive. Anybody else? I don't see a front office you can even argue beats the Pats at this game, especially working with almost all lower-down picks this decade. You really want Detroit's brain trust? Minnesota's? Washington's?

"In BB we trust" doesn't mean "BB is always right". It just means he is more likely to be right than you. Cope. It is fact.

I know, I know, you played college ball and woulda coulda shoulda had a real shot at somebody's practice squad except for that injury sophomore year. Come on dude. These guys send out squads of real live talent evaluators, all of whom sweat game film, measurables, interviews, blah blah blah, for months. Then Real Real Smart Guys figure out what to do w/the strategery, a game the Pats are renowned for winning.

Here is the thing: BB will draft guys you don't like. He will not draft guys you do like. He will see a need as not pressing enough to override value, when you think it does. He will pick guys that get injured. He will pick guys that don't pan out.

Reverse-homers come out on draft day to tell everybody how Philip Rivers was right about Ellis Hobbs, how Asante Samuel really was so overrated, how Sebastian Vollmer can't block a drain, how Darius Butler sucked so much as a rookie we needed to bring in Leigh Bodden, etc. etc. etc. They'll harp that since a guy went in the 2nd round or was still there when we picked in the 1st, we could have had him and were fools to pass him up.

Lately we're all convinced Dez Bryant is a can't miss sure-fire hall of famer. Like I dunno, Roy Williams, Mike Williams, Troy Williamson, whatever.

News flash guys - any given guy the Pats "should" have picked can still flop. By the high standards we hold Pats' picks to, most will flop.

You can't trot out the "proof" that the Pats can't draft, because it does not exist. You can retroactively and selectively fabricate the proof by naming binkies that panned out for one or another draftnik, or by pointing to one or the other pick someone made that panned out.

But I challenge anybody here to produce a relevant statistical survey demonstrating that the Pats "suck" at drafting.

PFnV

 

[RayClay]

What, one good draft day and all of you b1tches head for the hills? What, nothing to say now that BB might not have "lost it"? Gee, please come back with an 86 page thread about Dez Bryant.

I've been lurking for a long time now because I can't stand to post amongst the gripers-for-the-sake-of-griping. This board has been in need of some serious moderation lately, and for some reason it's been absent. Maybe BB has provided it himself.

Yeah, I know I'm just a stupid homer and GFY and whatnot.

Welcome to the new Pats!

Sorry, but the horror is just starting. You realize a lot of the defense will be comprised of rookies and second year draft picks now which means....

Busts.....they're all busts. The jests rookie has three sacks already, their linebacker is all pro!!! (all pro projection at the three game mark).

I told you they should have drafted __________!!!

We need to cut them all and sign (expensive free agent ______$$$!!!).

 

[FirstAndGoal]

It doesn't have to be about the experts.

It could be from people watching the games.

I'm at UBuffalo and I'm a UConn fan. I've actually seen Price play quite a bit (live, I've seen him in 3 games).

I don't think we know what we're getting with him. He has the size, speed, mental makeup to be a #1 receiver for us. His competition is questionable, his offense is questionable, a few things are questionable. He's a swing for the fences kid.

Some would have preferred Gilyard (I'm a huge fan of his from watching him play, not from reading scouting reports) and I think he will be ready to play in the NFL from day 1. But, he'll never be a #1 receiver. He'll be a gamer right away, run precise routes, snag balls, and play bigger than his body size. He is the definition of a wide receiver. He's also a safer pick.

So, it's a matter of preference. BB swung from the fences and that's a good thing. We also need young guys to take over the reigns from Moss and Holt.

By the way, Gilyard is still out there and he's still available so I don't see why the Patriots wouldn't take another rookie WR. I see only Welker, Moss and Edelman as locks. Holt will likely make it. so there is space for one more guy who could beat out Tate and upgrade the team.

The point is, some of us actually watch college football.

There are over 100 Div 1A teams. I doubt anyone here is watching anything remotely approaching what the scouts and coaches watch. Watching one team and determining that you can find better is pretty strange...no?

Coaches pour over film constantly and it's still a guess.

 

[upstater1]

There are over 100 Div 1A teams. I doubt anyone here is watching anything remotely approaching what the scouts and coaches watch. Watching one team and determining that you can find better is pretty strange...no?

Coaches pour over film constantly and it's still a guess.

I don't get this.

Why do people just reduce what someone says to something they didn't say.

Nowhere in my post do I say I know more than Belichick.

I've only been on here for ages, being called a homer, for pointing out to people that they don't know more than Belichick or the professionals.

I was responding to someone that said people's preferences are determined by scouting reports. It's just not totally true.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

I don't get this.

Why do people just reduce what someone says to something they didn't say.

Nowhere in my post do I say I know more than Belichick.

I've only been on here for ages, being called a homer, for pointing out to people that they don't know more than Belichick or the professionals.

I was responding to someone that said people's preferences are determined by scouting reports. It's just not totally true.

So where did I say you thought you knew more than BB? I was talking about "anyone else". You're guilty of what you just said I was doing.

 

[BritPat]

This.

Seriously. I would like to add in that the reason I don't get geeked for every draft is that it is a crap shoot. Read it again, slowly. It. Is. A. Crap. Shoot.

You can play the opposite game and look at the guys the draftniks are stoked about that come to nothing, or the guys other teams drafted never heard from again. For every "We didn't get ___, wahhhh!" thread there could be a "we didn't get ki-jana carter, we didn't get Ryan leaf, we didn't get Jeff George, we didn't get Mike Williams" thread.

You can quantify how well a team does in the draft by the team's long-term health. The Colts, Chargers, and Steelers are always impressive. Anybody else? I don't see a front office you can even argue beats the Pats at this game, especially working with almost all lower-down picks this decade. You really want Detroit's brain trust? Minnesota's? Washington's?

"In BB we trust" doesn't mean "BB is always right". It just means he is more likely to be right than you. Cope. It is fact.

I know, I know, you played college ball and woulda coulda shoulda had a real shot at somebody's practice squad except for that injury sophomore year. Come on dude. These guys send out squads of real live talent evaluators, all of whom sweat game film, measurables, interviews, blah blah blah, for months. Then Real Real Smart Guys figure out what to do w/the strategery, a game the Pats are renowned for winning.

Here is the thing: BB will draft guys you don't like. He will not draft guys you do like. He will see a need as not pressing enough to override value, when you think it does. He will pick guys that get injured. He will pick guys that don't pan out.

Reverse-homers come out on draft day to tell everybody how Philip Rivers was right about Ellis Hobbs, how Asante Samuel really was so overrated, how Sebastian Vollmer can't block a drain, how Darius Butler sucked so much as a rookie we needed to bring in Leigh Bodden, etc. etc. etc. They'll harp that since a guy went in the 2nd round or was still there when we picked in the 1st, we could have had him and were fools to pass him up.

Lately we're all convinced Dez Bryant is a can't miss sure-fire hall of famer. Like I dunno, Roy Williams, Mike Williams, Troy Williamson, whatever.

News flash guys - any given guy the Pats "should" have picked can still flop. By the high standards we hold Pats' picks to, most will flop.

You can't trot out the "proof" that the Pats can't draft, because it does not exist. You can retroactively and selectively fabricate the proof by naming binkies that panned out for one or another draftnik, or by pointing to one or the other pick someone made that panned out.

But I challenge anybody here to produce a relevant statistical survey demonstrating that the Pats "suck" at drafting.

PFnV

QFT.

See, the thing is I actually hated yesterday's picks bar Price, I have major worries over Gronk's back and the TE utilisation, I have major worries about Cunningham's play against the run, and I have major misgivings about Spikes ability in pass-coverage and shedding blocks.

But I'll happily sit here and let the 5 ring-owning coach of ours run the draft and pick the players he thinks are the best way of making sure this team is competitive every year, and give the players time to pan out and prove themselves on the field.

Instead of posting witless, pointless, clueless comments on a message board making myself look like I have the intellectual capacity of a house-brick.

 

[condon84]

I believe this was the type of thing PJ was talking about when he said the board is in serious need of moderation. Is the insulting tone and the "homer" talk really needed? Nope.

So let me get this straight: BritPat's snide comment doesn't need to be moderated because it's coming from a "homer's" POV, but when scott99 retaliates with a snide comment of his own, that needs to be moderated?

I mean, the whole premise of this thread is an insult to the posters who criticised the Pat's first round pick (calling them b1tchers).

 

[PatsFanSince74]

What, one good draft day and all of you b1tches head for the hills? What, nothing to say now that BB might not have "lost it"? Gee, please come back with an 86 page thread about Dez Bryant.

I've been lurking for a long time now because I can't stand to post amongst the gripers-for-the-sake-of-griping. This board has been in need of some serious moderation lately, and for some reason it's been absent. Maybe BB has provided it himself.

Yeah, I know I'm just a stupid homer and GFY and whatnot.

Welcome to the new Pats!

Well said, as usual, PJ.

Sometimes I think the mods just let people run out of steam or embarrass themselves, whichever comes first...unfortunately, it takes them a long time to run out of steam some days (Bryant is so clearly not a Pats' guy that it's silly).

I've been content to assume that BB has forgotten more about what it takes to build an NFL team than I'll ever know in my lifetime. Just think about what Belichick is trying to do now!

Unlike any other coach in the history of the league, he's trying to retool a team around a HOF QB to have a shot at a fifth trip to the SB and a fourth ring in a second decade.

Bradshaw's four rings came in a six year period; Joe needed nine seasons to get his (and two coaches, though he got number four in Seifert's first season). Tommy is now entering his tenth year as an SB winner. Only Elway, who lost on his first three tries, had trips to the SB that spanned a longer period (13 seasons) but he did in two different "eras" (pre and post cap, with virtually totally different teams), under two different coaches.

 

[BritPat]

So let me get this straight: BritPat's snide comment doesn't need to be moderated because it's coming from a "homer's" POV, but when scott99 retaliates with a snide comment of his own, that needs to be moderated?

I mean, the whole premise of this thread is an insult to the posters who criticised the Pat's first round pick (calling them b1tchers).

Snide? It wasn't snide - anyone with a clue about the game (especially someone claiming to have been following the Pats for 17 centuries or whatever) knows there is a draft next year.

He then spat his dummy out, blew his top etc etc and got personal.

And as I said, I hated the picks yesterday - I'm a homer?

Bite me.

 

[PatsFanJess]

"In BB we trust" doesn't mean "BB is always right". It just means he is more likely to be right than you. Cope. It is fact.

Absolutely.

 

[upstater1]

So where did I say you thought you knew more than BB? I was talking about "anyone else". You're guilty of what you just said I was doing.

You wrote that no one watches what the scouts and coaches watch.

I thought by coaches you were referring to Belichick.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Welcome to the new Pats!

The new Pats are the old Pats... underdogs who can play together exceptionally well and who know if they all play their roles, the sum of the whole is more than the parts... a la 2001

Most were disappointed that there weren't any of the "names" mentioned by experts selected... but McCourty is a good example of what Belichick is trying to do.

He's been panned for few INTs - yet Belichick doesn't want a guy who's a ball hog... he wants a quality player who will play the role he needs to play - a good leader and a guy who will over achieve and make others around him better as well.

People think Belichick stretched, even though some think he'd have been gone with the next pick - but for some perspective, if we took Tom Brady in the 1st round in 2001 can you imagine how loud the cries of "reach" would have been?

 

[Joker]

We have drafted lots of players that seem like the players we just drafted, and were not seeing much of a conversion rate past draft hype.

In my opinion, over the past 5 years, our drafts have been poor on field drafts. for the past few years it seems like every 3rd rounder gets put on the PUP to never be heard from again.Price is our only third round pick...so you are judging this draft on whether Price goes on I.R.???and that's what you expect to happen???do you get up in the morning and see a beautiful sunrise and say "what a rotten day!"???

On the cover of this draft story, I like it, I love the TE, but I LOVED Watson, Watson at TE with his speed should have been a unique weapon in the NFL, and was barely used.that is a flat out lie.LAST season was the first season that one can say that Watson was underutilized.Yes Watson has great speed, but he also had many bad drops during his time here.Your backhanded slam infers Brady is to blame for "underutilizing" Watson, since, on pass patterns,Brady has multiple reads.OK, then who would you rather have at QB to properly use the great Ben Watson??

So Gronk has me pumped for a long term weapon at TE. But that only matters if we even try to use him.here you are again....you seem TE "use" crazed...so take away receptions from Moss and Welkerto make sure a rookie gets enough receptions??? Huh????

We have been drafting LBs for years, and only Mayo has emerged as a real starter.once again, you are making these fairy tale assertions like they are fact based.From your whiny complaint I get that the two picks the Patriots made in the second round are in the same class as all these high LB "busts' over the past five years...except for Mayo...OK, let'
s look at all the LB's the Pats have been wasting high picks on

2009...Tyrone McKenzie...pick #97...on the roster...3rd round pick...uh...well THAT'S it for 2009...already a bust, eh?

2008...Je'Rod Mayo...first round at 10....Shawn Crable...pick#78...on the roster...questions still surround him..a third round pick..that's it for 2008

2007...Justin Rogers...pick 180...6th round...Oscar Lua ..pick 211...7th round...I guess you're going nutso about "all these linebackers!!!!!!!!" because a 6th and a 7th didn't stick on a team that went 18-1

2006...Jeremy Mincey...round 6 at 191....that's it...wow, what a waste!!!! another 6th round pick right in the garbage...how did the Patriots ever manage to go 18--1 the next season???

2005...Ryan Claridge...5th round...pick 170...ANOTHER HIGH PICK WASTED!!!!...oh wait...no, that's not right...

So, obviously, "all these high round linebackers are stashed!!!!" comes down to Tyrone McKenzie and Shawn Crable. TWO linebackers in FIVE years higher than a fifth rounder, but to you "this is a MAJOR CONCERN!!!!!" as far as their latest SECOND ROUND picks go...I'm sorry...I think you're uninformed and just parroting garbage.

So although so far I love this draft, I want to see these players get on the field, and get a chance, becuase if in July I read that Spikes, or Cunningham, or Price go on the PUP, you can pretty much guarantee you will never see them again, just like every other mid rounder drafted before and before their first game, was stashed away.second rounders are NOT "mid rounders", so I still don't get "just like every other mid rounder drafted!!!",but, again, what the hell are you talking about? They've taken two 6th rounders, a fifth rounder, a 7th and 2 3rd rounders(who are still on the team) in five years. I could see a person arguing they haven't taken enough linebackers in this span, but YOUR argument is ridiculous.

And then next year we will just be saying they are losing their position because we just drafted the same guy, with the same upside that never gets a chance to stay on the field.as shown above, you are trying to equate what either doesn't exist or what doesn't equate to our two 2nd round picks.

So like all drafts before, I will reserve my judgment until I see some playing time from these guys.

and if you're planning on jumping off that bridge you're perched on, you'd be better off asking somebody else if that is water down there and not concrete.It's obvious you can't tell the difference.

 

[Kontradiction]

I figured you had probably been on a lurk break. Anyway, welcome back. I wasn't high on the McCourty pick at first either but with everything the team has done in the second and third rounds, that pick is looking really good now.

 

[Gwedd]

I figured you had probably been on a lurk break. Anyway, welcome back. I wasn't high on the McCourty pick at first either but with everything the team has done in the second and third rounds, that pick is looking really good now.

This. I was also of a "what?" mindset with that 1st pick, but as other commenters said, you cannot judge a draft pick in a vacuum. It has to be seen as part of the entire draft package. After that, the best way to judge the draft pick is 3-5 years down the pike.

So far, I am very much liking these picks, and liking even better the way this division is rounding out.

 

[Rob0729]

It is funny that most of the usual suspect of Patriots basher have been around since the Pats started to draft. Maybe they all had more important stuff to do on this lovely weekend (but really, what is more important than the draft). Or maybe they are just frauds who just want to biatch about the Pats for sport.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I'm sure it's been said and probably in a more appropriate thread, but I LOVED Gronk's reaction to becoming a Patriot. I HOPE he's good enough, I HOPE he produces, etc., but I LOVE his reaction to the pick... now, granted, we have to see how good a pick it was.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

and if you're planning on jumping off that bridge you're perched on, you'd be better off asking somebody else if that is water down there and not concrete.It's obvious you can't tell the difference.

Nope, and after reading your overly critical, read into everything I wrote, response...

I still maintain that many of what we have drafted, doesn't get the chance, and our draft picks lately haven't turned into much as far as playing time. Watson's production was watered down becuase we threw the ball every play. Yes he caught 50 something balls a few years, but that's still a small percentage of the total passes that were called those years. Watson was extremely underutilized, and the TE position does not seem to play a factor in our offense.

I remain a fan of the TE position, and like in 03/04, I enjoyed when our TE's played a role in the ball control offense of methodical drives down the field.

Thanks!