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What to do with the 1st Pick overall

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by TMoney, Apr 22, 2007.

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  1. TMoney

    TMoney Rookie

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    Why is oakland taking Russell with there first pick, why not Joe Thomas. With out a good offensive line your QB is pretty much screwed. Look at the way the Pats are set up- they have a good OL that give there QB plenty of time and the QB rarely makes mistakes. I don't care how good a QB is, if his OL is bad, then he will be bad. If I had the first pick and was trying to rebuild the franchise I would take trade down take thomas, and pick drew stanton in the 2nd round.
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Because Thomas isn't THAT good. If you can get a great QB you get him. End of story. You have to trust your scouting judgement that he has the talent and that your coaching staff can turn the talent into plays . . . but you never pass on a great QB. Never.
  3. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    They tried that a few season's ago when they grabbed Gallery #2 overrall and they got screwed. I don't think they will take that chance again.
  4. TMoney

    TMoney Rookie

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    First of all Russell is not a great QB and second OL are the safest picks in the draft. Look what happened to carr cause he had a bad OL. And thomas is good OL man. Games are won and lost on the line of scrimmage you OL are the ones who make the run game good by opening up holes for the RB.
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who's the best LT in the league ? Take your pick, whoever you like.

    Would you trade Brady for him ?

    End of discussion.
  6. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Great point
    DW Toys
  7. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Raiders might fool everyone and take the consensus best player in the draft: Calvin Johnson.
  8. TMoney

    TMoney Rookie

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    BelichickFan what are you talking about. When did I say OL were more important than QB's............you got to stop making things up. I am saying that Russell is over rated and Thomas is the best pick for them. You do know that LT are the 2nd highly paid position in football. So I guess it is worth you while to get a good one.
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think most people think that Russell is as good, at least, a prospect at his position as Thomas is at his. Thomas is a good one, a legit top five or so. But he's not some monster stud. He just isn't. In fact Pro Football Weekly says some teams have Levi Brown ranked ahead of him because Thomas isn't a mauling thug of a run blocker.

    QB is more important than LT. By a wide margin. If you think Russell is overated, so be it. Most disagree.
  10. TMoney

    TMoney Rookie

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    Any body that can see past the smoke says Russell isn't a top QB, he is all hype. Trust me OL are very important. You aren't going to win anything with out good OL men.
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thanks for the news. Duh. Problem is, they don't get the top two picks they get the top ONE. If they think Russell is a top five pick caliber QB, that's who they should take. Only if they don't should they look elsewhere. But Thomas isn't a great LT - just a very good one. No way do I take him #1 when I have the choice of two worthy QB.
  12. TMoney

    TMoney Rookie

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    Any body that can see past the smoke says Russell isn't a top QB, he is all hype. Trust me OL are very important. You aren't going to win anything with out good OL men.


    Russell shows up overweight at the combine - Ryan leaf did the same thing.

    Ran a very simple offense and was not good at reads

    Not very mobile in the pocket - hence the OL

    etc....................
  13. TMoney

    TMoney Rookie

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    They trade down for him.....as you say Duh,

    Line men are the safest pick in the draft (you can look that one up) QB's arent. So Thomas will more than likely not be a bust. You are going to have to give a big contract to your 1st round pick. if that pick busts then your franchise could be screwed for the next few yrs on salary cap issues. So trade down take the safe pick, pick your QB in the second round cause it won't cost as much and if they bust no big deal. Russell is not the kinda guy you want to give all that money to. Its a way to risky bet, he will not be ready for an NFL offensive scheme for at least a yr or two. Now you can only sign a 1st round pick to a 4yr contract where as you can sign a 2nd round to a 5 year. so you are getting a QB for cheaper and you know you have him for longer.
  14. BelichickFan

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    You always take the QB if you think he's good. All the rest is just words.
  15. TMoney

    TMoney Rookie

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    thats all russell has now is words. And you have to factor in salary cap in football nowadays.
  16. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What to do with the 1st Pick overall

    Thank the deity of your choice that our Pats are on this entertaining winning binge, so we don't have to consider this question in the real world.
  17. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    Yeah but, more to the point, would you trade Culpepper for him? Or Carr? I would. Ridiculous to suggest that Russell or Quinn are sure to be the next Brady or Manning. They each represent one shot in the dark for the team that drafts them. Gold mine if they hit.

    Anyway, Brady way a 6th rounder. So the idea that you cant afford to pass up a first round QB when you're presented with one... well... that doesn't really hold water. What round was Favre taken?

    It's a crapshoot. You're betting on horses running different races on different tracks.
  18. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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  19. BelichickFan

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  20. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    Brady may go down as the best of all time so that's a ridiculous comparison.

    Daunte Culpepper is more likely. And where is he now? Historically QBs taken 1st or 2nd overall have only about a 50/50 shot of becoming a solid NFL starter.

    I'd take Calvin Johnson.
  21. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm just saying, talent being equal you take the QB.

    Russell vs. Thomas you take Russell. That was the question that was posed. Russell vs. Johnson is tougher because most think Johnson is a better talent but at a position of lesser importance.
  22. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Rookie

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    Well, if you fail to take Russell, likely he is going to be the new QB in Oakland. Right now they have no-one to deliver the mail. (actually, even if they do get Russell he might be the new QB in oakland, everything I have heard suggests Russel needs at least half a year to sit)

    A great quarter-back can make JAG recievers look good, but the greatest reciever can not make an JAG quarterback look good. The QB has the ball in his hands 99% of all offensive plays and is the center of gravity for any offense. The value of the QB for the offense is greater then any other position on the O including the lineman, so when it comes time to rebuild, then you have to start with the QB.

    1st round QBs maybe 50/50 but the odds go down considerably after that.
  23. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    yeah but the odds of a 1st round WR bust are less IMO. Especially one that's being compared to the physical attributes of a Randy Moss/Terrel Owens with the personality of a Jerry Rice in a year where the WR class is very deep.
  24. Oswlek

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    Here is a historical view of all offensive tackles taken since 1982. I see nothing there that indicates to me that OT is nearly as "safe" a pick as propaganda suggests. I think it is just a combination of factors:

    1) QBs are visibly involved in every offensive play. I realize that OTs are just as involved, but it isn't so obvious how well they preform unless they are great or terrible.

    2) Only one QB can play at a time. A medicore QB picked high looks like a failure. A mediocre LT can still be covered up with TE play or by switching over to RT.

    It just comes down to the simple fact that QBs are easier to analyze than OTs.
  25. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Rookie

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    Even if Johnson lives up to all of his potential, he would still be less value able to a team then a franchise quarterback. Thats why you see plenty of teams trade away star wide recievers. You do not trade away your franchise quarterback. The position is just too valuable. Being right on a quarterback is just a lot more important then being right on a reciever.
  26. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    Yeah but being wrong on a QB is a LOT worse. You set your franchise back about 5 years when you pick the next Ryan Leaf or Rick Mirer.
  27. BelichickFan

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    You can't be scared to make a mistake.

    There's only two reasons to pass on a stud QB :

    - If you think he's just not that good.
    - If you don't think your coaching staff can translate his talent into plays.

    If you think he's that good then you have to trust your scouting ability. If you think your coaching staff is worth it's paycheck you have to trust them to turn ability into plays.

    There's no other reason to pass on a QB. Being afraid to make a mistake CERTAINLY isn't a good reason.
  28. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    Well if the rumors are true I'd say Oakland is very scared. They've been inquiring about QBs like Tim Rattay & Josh McCown just so they can have an adequate excuse not to select Russell #1 overall.
  29. TMoney

    TMoney Rookie

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    Oakland do need a QB, but is Russell the QB for them, probably not. in all honsety they should have taken leinart last year. They should draft Quinn this year if they are going to take a QB.

    Calvin johnson is a good player, but the raiders are a few years away from being able draft a WR in the first round of the draft. A team like the pats could take the top rated player with the first pick in the draft, but the raiders need plug holes, they gotto find there guy and trade down for him.

    I have to admit I have only recently started to watch american football, but I cannot believe all the hype that goes aling with it. You have a few good games and all of a sudden you GOD!! I look at the draft and all I see is hype, so many players are over rated and so many under rated. One of the reasons I love the pats so much is that they are so smart. They never buy into the Hype (I loved how the chargers bought into the hype and we smoked them). The pats will make the smart choice with there picks, they get good character guys,they type who have helped forged the pats into what they are today and the type who will keep they credo alive.

    Sorry I went off on a tangent. what would I do with the Number on over all pick.......(this is the point I wanted to get across) trade down, there is always some fool who will take the over rated guy, you can take more picks and equally good guys when you trade down. I suppose Belichick fan does have a point if you think you got your guy take him, but you gotto be as sure as hell that he is your guy. Personally I don't think Russell is that guy, only time will tell if I am right or wrong. He doens't seem to have that fire in him, i don't get the impression that he is the kinda guy who wants to win it all over and over again. I watched an interview with Jarvis Moss, he seems like a guy who is going to do well, I think her has the hunger (I am not saying anything about where he should go in the draft(don't wanna open another kettle of ishh)).

    Anyways the draft is only a few days away and I can't wait for 12hrs of sports talk!!
  30. Patriot Missile

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    Completely agreed. The whole draft is mining for gold but if you look at the QB's drafted the last twenty years in the first round you will find some very discouraging results if you are looking for a Super Star QB Manning type player. The safer picks are Calvin Johnson,Gaines Adams, Joe Thomas. That's my opinion mixed in with some radio I've listened to.
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