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What About the Defense?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by billdog3484, Mar 22, 2012.

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  1. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am not unhappy with any of the moves we have made thus far. But I just dont get it. Since when was Offense our problem? We scored a zillion points this year. We would have won the Super Bowl if not for our best player tearing his ankle in the AFC Championship Game, and probably still would have won if Brady hadnt injured his shoulder in the 3rd Quarter of the super bowl.

    We havent lost a game in a really long time, in my mind, due to the offense. We lose because our defense cannot get off the field. How have we rectified this.

    I have called our defense the "No-Brady" defense, because it is the only thing that stops us from scoring. We cannot get our D off the field and Offense onto the field.

    I really hope we have something coming up our sleeve to change this.
  2. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    defense.....BAH
  3. BlueThunder

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    Defense was mid of the pack by end of year. It should be improved this season with players healthy and a few of the FA Pats already signed. I have to think Gregory, Fanene, Cole and Scott along with their high draft picks will help make the D better than last year's version. Just call me Mr Opptimistic ;)

    Hurts to lose Anderson, but he's only one player.

    In BB We Trust :rocker:
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A year of playing together and overall maturity will help the Defensive Backfield....
  5. naF staP

    naF staP Rookie

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    Nobody can beat the Patriots when putting 50+ points on the board every week!! :D
  6. Patriots Nation NY

    Patriots Nation NY Banned

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    if i told you the defense last year out performed the offense in the last two most important games of the year would you believe me?
  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1.) Mario Williams aside, what great defenders were missed out on?

    2.) What players, on either side of the ball, were overpaid?

    3.) The team has brought in 3 players for the defensive secondary and 2 players for the front seven.

    4.) The draft is still to come.

    5.) Free agency isn't over yet.

    6.) There will likely be more veteran cuts to look at in the future.
  8. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I just want to know who our pass rushers will be ...............
  9. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative Rookie

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    Exactly. We've brought in more defensive players than offensive ones. The only possible imbalance is that there's no defensive player with the potential upside that Lloyd has - at least that's how it is perceived.

    We do seem to be missing an explosive athlete on the edge. That would about complete the work. But other than Williams, who was available?
  10. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    Improvements were needed on both sides of the ball. The offensive players to make that happen were available at reasonable prices. The defensive players were not (although we did add some complementary pieces in Fanene, Gregory, Allen, and Scott). Do you really want Mark Anderson for what Buffalo paid him? Let Scott, Cunningham, Andre Carter (if resigned) and a rookie battle it out for a situational rusher role. There are some good edge rushers available in the draft and Fanene and a healthy Pryor will dramatically improve our interior rush.
  11. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    Were you hibernating in 2011?

    The Patriots lost 4 games. 3 1/2 were due to the offense.

    Go back and watch the games and then discuss.
  12. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    isn't that what was said about the entire defensive unit after the 2010 season?
  13. TyronePoole

    TyronePoole Banned

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    Apparently during the regular season now you aren't allowed to play defense but once the playoffs start there are no longer rules against holding and PI. This allowed our pretty awful defense to look above average last year so call me crazy but I just don't worry too much about the D assuming this trend continues and we improve at least a little.

    It may just be a sad truth that defense no longer matters that much. And now they're talking about treating the QB like a kicker and having a no contact rule. I'm not one of these guys going on about the pussification of this or that but it really is kind of imbalanced.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  14. cavtroop

    cavtroop Rookie

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    [citation needed]

    Really? I havent seen this anywhere? I did see a proposed change to call horsecollars on QBs in the pocket, but thats it...
  15. TyronePoole

    TyronePoole Banned

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  16. Blizzzard

    Blizzzard Rookie

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    The thing that most people forget is that a bunch of good-to-great 2010 defenses were poor-to-piss poor in 2011, because of the
    Lockout. That affected defenses a lot more than offenses because of the need to play as a cohesive group being even greater than that need on offense ( where skill position players can take over a game)

    We saw it ourselves, as our defense got MUCH better as the year went on and they had played together for an extended period.

    I believe that we will get much better ( closer to what BB envisioned ) just by virtue of having a training camp. Not to mention getting players like Dowling back and adding draft picks and veteran cuts later on in the offseason. :rocker:
  17. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    I know you're addressing a specific claim in this post, but it got me thinking. In the past two seasons (regular season and postseason) the Pats have scored no fewer than 14 points in any single game. They've scored fewer than 20 points in just 4 of their 36 games. That's amazing.

    In the NFL the past two seasons as a whole, teams scored fewer than 20 points 429 times. Teams won 90 of those games, for a winning percentage of .210. Obviously not great, but it's just over 1 in 5. (obviously if a team wins with fewer than 20 points scored, it also means that a team loses with fewer than 20 points scored)

    The Patriots have scored fewer than 20 points 4 times, and is 0-4 in those games. If they had scored 19 points against Dallas instead of 20, they'd be 1-5 in such games....right on pace with the rest of the NFL. So we can't exactly "punish" the Patriots for that.

    Nevertheless, it is true that the Pats have 7 losses over the past two years, and in 4 of them they've scored fewer than 20 points. Here are their 7 losses:

    2010 - at NYJ, 28-14
    2010 - at Cle, 34-14
    2010 - vs NYJ, 28-21
    2011 - at Buf, 34-31
    2011 - at Pit, 25-17
    2011 - vs NYG, 24-20
    2011 - vs NYG, 21-17

    So in 6 of their 7 losses, they have scored 21 or fewer points.

    Here's kind of the point I'm trying to make. Their offense has been ridiculously good in recent years. Very rarely do they not hold up their end of the bargain. But it's not reasonable to expect them to put up big numbers every game, and when they don't, the D needs to step up and win a game. But the D hasn't done that. The D, when the offense needs to be bailed out, hasn't bailed them out. The offense has, however, bailed out the D numerous times, by winning a bunch of games where the D gave up 27 or more points (4-2 in such situations). Here are those games:

    2010 - vs Buf, W, 38-30
    2010 - vs Ind, W, 31-28
    2010 - vs GB, W, 31-27
    2010 - vs NYJ, L, 28-21
    2011 - at Buf, L, 34-31
    2011 - at Was, W, 34-27

    So the O has consistently done a much better job than the D (no surprise) but they've also bailed out the D four out of six times, but the D has never bailed out the O, going 0-for-4 in such games.
  18. eom

    eom Rookie

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    fanene, scott, and gregory all play defense.

    also, there's the draft.
  19. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    Actually, no.

    The worst example is thinking the offense bailed the defense out against the Redskins.

    Go back and actually watch that game. You might notice:

    The defensive TD.
    The game not being sealed after great field position because of an end zone INT.
    The game getting sealed by a Mayo INT.
  20. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    Well we could play that game the other way too. The Super Bowl, for example. The Pats led 17-15 until the Giants' final drive. The D had given up only 13 of those points. Great job, right? Bailed out the offense, right? Well, that is, until the Giants shredded them in the last 2 minutes to win the game.
  21. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    Marquice Cole also plays cornerback.
  22. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    Rob Gronkowski and Logan Mankins played through injuries in the Super Bowl. Dan Koppen was placed on injured reserve early in the 2011 NFL Season. The three aforementioned players have been AFC Pro-Bowlers at one time or another.
  23. Ronin

    Ronin Rookie

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    I am looking forward to the draft, rest of free agency, cuts from other teams, and the continuity of the young defense to all come together for offseason mini-camps/training camp. Because of the strike prior to last season, Belichick did the best he could during the season to prepare the young defense. I know there are a lot of questions regarding the defense, but with some key additions through the draft and free agency, Belichick is building depth and a quality team to challenge the AFC next year.
  24. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Pats defense held the NYG to one touchdown in the first 59:01 of the Super Bowl. That is certainly a great job. They held vaunted WR Cruz to 25 yds on 4 catches.

    The key play of the last NYG drive was the incredibly perfectly throw pass from Manning to Manningham. I don't know if you could honestly blame the defense.

    The offensive production of the last 2 losing SB's has been 14 pts and 17 pts, which is obviously pathetic.

    The defense played pretty well in the playoffs, and also down the stretch last yr when the injured players returned and the safety position was shored up.

    It's quite possible Belichick is addressing both (it seems that way), but is counting more on the draft to fill the needs of the few positions/depth on defense.
  25. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    To quote the Son of the Cleveland Cavaliers owner at the NBA Draft Lottery when they got the #1 Selection.

    "What not to like":cool::p
  26. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Before we get too much deeper into a "defense vs offense--who's to blame more?" discussion, let's remember that it was a team effort.

    That said, there were some positions on the offensive side of the ball that needed addressing too, actually there still are.

    With the LM ACL injury, the probable retirement of Light, the lack of any type of stretch the field/outside the #'s WR, the need of a 3rd TE, and the loss of BJGE, the offense certainly had some needs to be addressed too.

    After all, the offense will always be our bread and butter, at least in my opinion while Brady's still around. The defense needs to be able to play well enough to keep us in games, and show improvement. If they can allow something in the area of 18-19 pts allowed on average, that by all accounts should be good enough to allow us to compete at an awfully high level.

    The defense will continue to be addressed via the draft and FA, and since the secondary was probably our worst area last yr, I would expect that side of the ball to be better this yr.
  27. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    Good question Bob with lots of possible answers. First is that since he didn't go on a single visit, even though he had a better year than Anderson, Andre Carter seems like he's likely to want to come back. He had his most winning experience ever. He comfortable in the defense, and he loved the organization. I'd go up to $4MM for a year - give him $8MM for 2, guarantee $4MM, and make it so if he or the team doesn't want the 2nd year it will be a painless split.

    However don't look for this signing to come much before camp. A guy his age, coming off an injury doesn't need to participate in OTA's Right now he needs rest and rehab.

    After that who knows who BB might bring in. When they signed Anderson and Carter, they weren't thought of as locks to make the team, let alone account for half our sacks.

    Patience Bob, as disappointed as I was not to get Anderson back, I'm really feeling good about the way this defense played at the end of the year and who we will be adding to it from the IR and FA....so far. I'm thinking that it might not be a Texan-like turnaround, but it could be damned close. ;)
  28. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    You are playing with something alright.

    I'd recommend actually watching the Super Bowl.

    If you actually watch the game, you might notice a key Welker drop late in the 4th quarter that would have sealed the game.

    Your problem is you are intellectually committed to something dumb...and while I admire committment in general, it can also drive one to get stuck on stupid.

    1.) In general, it's not good to give up come from behind game wining TD's. What you and many others can't quite seem to grasp is that a review of recent Eli Manning history shows that Eli Manning has had several come from behind 4th quarter wins. If someone does something to everybody then nobody who had it done is noticeably bad.

    Based on this the 49er defense also sucks.

    Bill loses a game of "21". Therefore, he must suck as a basketball player. Yeah, but he lost to Micheal Jordan in his prime. So what? He lost so he sucks.

    As the Douche says.....context.

    2.) The defense bailed the offense out plenty. Between the post safety TD and the final drive....six points....including three after the INT. The offense had plenty of chances to put the game away and didn't. This culminated in the Welker drop.

    Offense bailed out? Plenty...just not EVERY time.

    3.) Another thing you can't grasp is the inherent concept of offense and defense. By definition, offenses are proactive and offensive ....that's why we call then offenses. Defenses are reactive and defensive....that's how they got the name defenses.

    The reality of football and life is if you give anybody enough chances to do offense, they will be successful at some point. That's why the blind squirrel will eventually find the nut.

    If you give a top 10 offense like the Giants enough chances, they will score. Sorry that bursts your world but it's simply reality.

    4.) The reality of football is once a defense hits the 50 snap total. The balance goes to the offense. That's why you put games away as soon as possible. If you let someone hang around, bad things happen.

    This is a real problem if the hanger around is a top 10 offense that has a QB with a record amount of 4th quarter come from behind wins.

    This is reality.

    We straight?
  29. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

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    Pats don't need a big splash on defense.....some solid vets signed that have a lower learning curve is fine. Having Ras-I back should help also. BB has grabbed the players on D that give better depth so we hopefully won't have Edelman on D or even Brown playing. If Sergio makes the roster, it will be ST only. Makes sense to give Carter healing time and sign him at the last minute.

    Let the draft fill in any needs. I don't see any defensive players from the draft starting unless BB pkgs picks to move up and grab one in top 11-15 and I can't see that happening knowing BB's draft MO.

    Enjoy the rest of FA and the Draft and quit worrying ! :rocker:
  30. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    The main thing that we can take away from this offseason is that based on the signings.....we are going to be as Bernard Pollard proof as possible.

    What alot of people don't fully appreciate is that when one team wins, the amount of fate and luck required is huge.

    If Gronk doesn't get hurt, we win by 2-3 scores.

    Fumble recovery should be 50/50. What if we get one of the fumbles?

    It's about the moment's execution and universal concepts.

    Based on March and April activity, what fans should appreciate is the chance to let fate be.

    Based on history and 2012 activity, we are in excellent position.

    As the Polish general who surrendered Warsaw in 1939 said,...."A wheel always turns."
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