What About the Defense?

[Kontradiction]

A year of playing together and overall maturity will help the Defensive Backfield....

A year of playing together is going to help the secondary play man coverage at anything more than an appalling rate? Please explain.

 

[randomk1]

We have a good core of players. I'm feeling confident about them barring injuries of course. Injuries have really been biting us in the ass in recent years.

 

[billdog3484]

I find it pretty funny that Billdog basically dodged Deus' first question. Instead of giving actual NAMES of players who he thinks the Pats should have signed, he wimps out and just says that he thinks the Pats should have made at least 3 other signings to the defense. No names or anything. And, what else does Billdog do? He downplays the signings that were made. As if they have little chance to actually help the team.

comical dabruinz. I "wimped out." I dont have to name names. in fact if you read all of my posts in this thread you will see I am actually pleased with the personnel we brought in so far. did you read that part of my posts? or did you just read the parts you wanted to? did you wimp out? cmon guy.

my point is we need to upgrade the defense. we have brought in 3 quality guys i believe on D. approx 6 on offense. will the defense get better? i hope so. however, I would have liked to see more players brought in for D than for O. and i agree there still is time, but as we roll along, presumably the level of talent decreases. read all of my posts.

and dabruinz, just because people dont go into such specific details as you want them to, that doesnt mean their points are not legitimate. general comments are ALLOWED on this board. there is no rule against that, as much as you may wish that were not the case

 

[ATippett56]

What about the defense?

2012 NFL Draft (food for thought)

#27 Devon Still or Kendall Reyes
#31 Mark Barron or trade down
#48 Harrison Smith or Andre Branch or Shea McClellin or Vinny Curry
#63 Josh Robinson
#95 Jamell Fleming or Trumaine Johnson (if Josh Robinson is not available at #63)

Bolded = Updated Draft Binkies

 

[DW Toys]

I think this point is great. Awesome post.

Maybe not 'just' the draft alone, but your point remains the same.

Good solid signings that will add depth and competition; not high priced gambles that may or may not work out.

The draft will certainly make things better for the defense this yr, and as a whole that should trickle down to the next few yrs all over again.

It's important that we remember how this team has gone through somewhat of a youth movement/rebuilding process on the fly..without missing a beat or anyone else even noticing. If you asked the majority of other NFL fanbases, they likely wouldn't know too much about what you were discussing, in regards to the NEP rebuilding of the team.

Couisn Sup, The Draft day for the Pats is always a disappointment to most fans as Used Car Salesman Bill has his day. Let's hope this year is as productive as 2010, but fact is, per average only two from this class will make an impact on the Pats (17% of a Draft Class) and that it can take three years for said players to develop to their fullest potential.

Fact is he is much better picking up bargains in FA, Trades or UDFA than his Draft record. We deify him but that has been his only flaw has been not so great drafting. He still builds a team better than anyone and wins with what he has. Last years horrible "D" is a case in point. They were pretty damn good in the playoffs and SB. There wasn't a single 2011 actual Draft pick that was on that Defense!!!

I would not rest easy thinking BB won't trade past available talent as per the norm for those terrifying additional "value picks". I only hope he would take a year off from that methodology that has been proven as mediocre at best, and hold onto some of the higher rated talent.

I still think pieces can be added on the D in this FA period. There are a few Safeties out there yet. Bell might be a decent pick up. Giordino might have been the best Raider DB and had a career year. Terrell Johnson is only 26 but was rated as one of the top young safeties in the NFL until a Hammy surgery he is recovering from (typical BB pick up) . None are Ed Reed but we need one or two.

The caveat is Barrett. Did BB see enough of him in the few games he was in to warrant him still on the 2013 Roster with a salary of $1m? If you need CAP his $1m might have been a thought. Because he still is on the roster I expect him to get a chance in TC. BB might see big things from him. He took him over Sanders and Merriweather.

My big hope is if we can sign Castillo. He had a leg fracture, not a knee. He has size and speed. He is only 28 with a proven NFL pedigree that you can't say about even a first round Draft choice. I hope they are still talking. He might be the Goldston player this year that got away.

These few moves still in FA would be outstanding to assist the D.

DW Toys

 

[TyronePoole]

It would be really nice to hit on an elite defensive playmaker this draft, i feel like we're due.

 

[Keyser Söze]

It would be really nice to hit on an elite defensive playmaker this draft, i feel like we're due.

We'll trade down again, so we could get a good player...just not play maker as usual.

 

[mgteich]

Let's be clear. Belichick clearly sees something in Barrett, at least enough to give him chance this year as the #4 or #5 safety. He was the starter when he was injured. Belichick will not be worrying about his salary either. $1M is chump change. His likely replacement would likely get $500K or $600K anyway. The net cost isn't much.

The bottom line is that we are such bad shape at safety that one more free agent safety and draftee should make the 53 man squad, and Barrett would still make the squad. After all, as of now, he is the only one other than Chung who knows Belichick's system. Of course, we might bring in even more to have some competition at the position.

As you say, there are still lots of options out there.

.

The caveat is Barrett. Did BB see enough of him in the few games he was in to warrant him still on the 2013 Roster with a salary of $1m? If you need CAP his $1m might have been a thought. Because he still is on the roster I expect him to get a chance in TC. BB might see big things from him. He took him over Sanders and Merriweather.

DW Toys

 

[patfanken]

A year of playing together is going to help the secondary play man coverage at anything more than an appalling rate? Please explain.

The secondary will be better for the following reasons.

1. Haven't you heard of repetition K. The the Pats have a VERY young secondary. Their most experienced player last season has played only 2.5 seasons and started less that 2 seasons worth of games. (Chung) Arrington and McCourty will be entering their 3rd season of starting. That experience counts. The repetition adds up, and the reactions speeds up. For that reason alone without any personnel changes and the defense would be better

2. The people we are getting back from IR. Dowling and Barrett both would have made big impacts had they remained healthy, getting both back will greatly impact the efficiency and flexibility of the DB's.

3. The players we have added in FA - Gregory is a natural FS who did OK as a SS. I know for a fact, even if he doesn't start, he'll be better in coverage than any S that played for us last season, except for the 8 games Pat Chung played. The bar hasn't been set high at the FS position. We also can expect at least one draft pick S as well, and its very likely he can make the same claim as Gregory the day he shows up in camp.

So the additional experience will greatly help the CBs (Arrington, McCourty and Moore) Since we had only one legit starting S all year, and he played only 8 games, so I'd be hard pressed to think that things won't be better in that area as well, before all is said and done. Hard to think of a scenario that could be worse

 

[mgteich]

I agree 100%.

CORNER
3 youngsters with a year more experience, plus a top draftee off the IR.

SAFETY
It seems hard to say that Chung, Gregory, Barrett and a draftee or additional free agent will be much better than last year. But, let's be clear. As you said, we had one safety last year, for half a season. We also had Barrett for awhile plus a Ster.
=====================
This year, we will start with a secondary who has much more experience than last. In addition, a core of seven are in place now and will work together for the entire off-season.

Obviously, I expect another safety of two. But after Barron is gone in the first 25, I'm not sure that Belichick will draft any of the safeties. In any case, a draftee is likely to take a year to develop. So, for 2012, I think we have the secondary, with the possible addition of another free agent or two.

The secondary will be better for the following reasons.

1. Haven't you heard of repetition K. The the Pats have a VERY young secondary. There most experienced plays last season has played only 2.5 seasons and started less that 2 seasons worth of games. (Chung) Arrington and McCourty will be entering their 3rd season of starting. That experience counts. The repetition adds up, and the reactions speeds up. For that reason alone without any personnel changes and the defense would be better

2. The people we are getting back from IR. Dowling and Barrett both would have made big impacts had they remained healthy, getting both back will greatly impact the efficiency and flexibility of the DB's.

3. The players we have added in FA - Gregory is a natural FS who did OK as a SS. I'm not sure how he will be, but I know for a fact, even if he doesn't start, but I know he'll be better in coverage than any S that played for us last season, except for the 8 games Pat Chung played. We also can expect at least one draft pick S as well, and its very likely he can make the same claim as Gregory

So the addition experience will greatly help the CBs (Arrington, McCourty and Moore) Since we had only one legit starting S all year, and he played only 8 games, so I'd be hard pressed to think that things won't be better in that area as well, before all is said and done.

 

[RayClay]

Although I'm for stacking the defense in the draft, our offense has significantly underperformed in the playoffs/super bowl compared to the regular season for a while now.

Sure, it would be great to have a defense that could absolutely hold the other team to less than 17 points guaranteed, but we should be able to score at least in the twenties.

I'd rather patiently build the defense than keep patching with over the hill big names. A young stud draft pick will have benefits for years and teams still underrate players like Carter and make them available, so why go free agent crazy?

 

[ATippett56]

Although I'm for stacking the defense in the draft, our offense has significantly underperformed in the playoffs/super bowl compared to the regular season for a while now.

The New England Patriots have stockpiled wide receivers in the 2012 unrestricted free agent market. In addition, the New England Patriots signed tight end Daniel Fells and guard Robert Gallery in the 2012 unrestricted free agent market.

Sure, it would be great to have a defense that could absolutely hold the other team to less than 17 points guaranteed, but we should be able to score at least in the twenties.

Injuries to Gronkowski and Mankins slowed down the New England Patriots offense in the Super Bowl.

I'd rather patiently build the defense than keep patching with over the hill big names. A young stud draft pick will have benefits for years and teams still underrate players like Carter and make them available, so why go free agent crazy?

Hopefully the 2012 NFL Draft will be severely skewed towards the defense for the New England Patriots.

 

[mgteich]

I guess this means that we had insufficient depth. We had ZERO depth at TE in 2011, and apparently insufficient quality depth at OG. Belichick address this by the addition of Fells and Gallery.

.

Injuries to Gronkowski and Mankins slowed down the New England Patriots offense in the Super Bowl.

 

[ATippett56]

But after Barron is gone in the first 25, I'm not sure that Belichick will draft any of the safeties.

Based upon what?

 

[mgteich]

The draft is primarily for the future, so the issue is where we expect to need help in 2012 and 2013. Also, Belichick has his strong preferences with regard to certain positions. He has had little success in draftee OLB's.

That being said, I do believe that safety and defensive end will be top priorities before Friday night ends (end of Round 3). Even at safety, the player might just not be there. I suppose that Belichick could draft another young corner. We can never have enough.

I would not be at all surprised to see draftees on offense (OL and/or WR). After all, Light, Waters, Vollmer, and Gallery could all be gone for 2013. Is Connolly the long-term answer at center? We are throwing everything against the wall this year at WR. Something might stick for 2012. But what about going forward. Who are the projected WR's for 2013? Lloyd and maybe Welker in his last year. It seems that we might draft a WR in this very deep WR class.

My guess for our first five picks in no particular order: DE, WR, OL, DB and a double dip at one of those positions.

.

Hopefully the 2012 NFL Draft will be severely skewed towards the defense for the New England Patriots.

 

[ATippett56]

I guess this means that we had insufficient depth. We had ZERO depth at TE in 2011, and apparently insufficient quality depth at OG. Belichick address this by the addition of Fells and Gallery.

The New England Patriots did select a tight end in the fifth round of the 2011 NFL Draft, and subsequently cut the aforementioned draft pick during the cut down to 53. After Deion Branch, one could argue the New England Patriots had ZERO depth at wide receiver, as well.

 

[TyronePoole]

why do you preface everything with "the New England Patriots....?"

sorry but it's tilting me for some reason

 

[mgteich]

I agree. What we are pointing out is the major depth problems we had on offense in 2011.

The New England Patriots did select a tight end in the fifth round of the 2011 NFL Draft, and subsequently cut the aforementioned draft pick during the cut down to 53. After Deion Branch, one could argue the New England Patriots had ZERO depth at wide receiver, as well.

 

[ATippett56]

The draft is primarily for the future, so the issue is where we expect to need help in 2012 and 2013.

The draft is for the present and the future. The New England Patriots defense is in dire need of upgrades.

Also, Belichick has his strong preferences with regard to certain positions. He has had little success in draftee OLB's.

Prior to Jerod Mayo, Bill Belichick did not select an inside linebacker in the first three rounds in any draft. Conditions on the ground change over time.

That being said, I do believe that safety and defensive end will be top priorities before Friday night ends (end of Round 3). Even at safety, the player might just not be there. I suppose that Belichick could draft another young corner. We can never have enough.

New England Patriots defensive draft priorities:

3-4 Defensive End(s)
3-4 Outside Linebacker(s)
Safeties

 

[ATippett56]

I agree. What we are pointing out is the major depth problems we had on offense in 2011.

Which, hopefully, has already been resolved in the 2012 unrestricted free agent market.