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Wes Welker, Hall of Famer ?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by scott99, Oct 16, 2012.

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  1. scott99

    scott99 Rookie

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    What say ye all, will Wes wind up in the Hall of Fame ? 600+ catches in 6 seasons w/the Pats. I bet he winds up with at least 900+ catches in his career. I think he makes it to the Hall.
  2. Jose

    Jose Rookie

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    How can you make the HOF when the biggest plays of your career are losing on a 18-0 team and then dropping essentially the game winning pass in the next Superbowl? I'm sorry, but Welker isn't a HOFer. Brady and Vince deserve to be there, no one else on this team at this point.
  3. Ivan

    Ivan Rookie

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    He's definitely well on his way to Canton. Only a complete moron would think otherwise.
  4. IndianPat

    IndianPat Rookie

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    900 catches in a career will not get him in to the HOF. There are several receivers with 1000 plus catches that are unable to get in. However, he is on the right path. He needs another 5 seasons with 100 plus catches every year to make it.
  5. Palm Beach Pats Fan

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    can some mod clean up this POS trash troller who is pretending to be a Patriots fan?

    Thanks in advance.
  6. Boomer B

    Boomer B Rookie

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    It's gonna be tough for Welker to get in on numbers alone. The perception that slot receivers are not as important as outside threats may come into play.

    There are a lot of really good WRs already waiting to get in and more to come in the next decade. Cris Carter and Tim Brown are near the top of WR stats and haven't been able to get in. Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Terrel Owens, Randy Moss, and Hines Ward are recently retired or will be retiring soon and they are all near the top of the record books.

    Moss and Owens will make it, although maybe not first year because of there antics. Ward is interesting, maybe best blocking WR ever, but not a dynamic player. The others I think are borderline.

    For Welker to ensure a spot he will have to continue his production for another 3-4 years, and more importantly have some big playoff games and defining moments.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  7. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

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    14,000 all-purpose yards, about 700 catches & closing in on 8,000 yards receiving
    -listed in the NFL dictionary under the phrase "slot receiver"

    If he adds 4 more years anything at all like the last 5, you can flat-out guarantee it.

    How many wide receivers with 1,000 catches and 12,000 yards are not on the HOF? Two, Tim Brown and Chris Carter. They will get in, most people think. Carter would be in now, but for his personality.

    Q: How many hall of famers period have more catches and yards than 1,000/12,000?
    A: One: Jerry Rice

    Only two HOF-ers have more than even 800 catches: Rice, Largent, and Art Monk.

    None have even close to his return yardage.

    A ring will help, though. Damn that Tyree...

    Enshrinement » 2012 Finalists comparative stats: Wide Receivers
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  8. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    I don't know. I don't think he has had the longevity yet to really get there. I would think he would need at least two more years at a very high level and another one or two years at a lesser level to make it.

    Remember, there are currently only 11 WR in the Hall and there are many great receivers out there that will be lining up to get in. Chris Carter, Isaac Bruce, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Marvin Harrison I think are at the top of the list. Not to say that he isn't deserving but its going to be very hard for him to make it.
  9. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    It took 8 long years for the great Art Monk to get in,Welker is not guaranteed anything.
  10. VJCPatriot

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    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  11. Ivan

    Ivan Rookie

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    People keep making that claim but there is absolutely nothing to support it, if anything he just continues to get better and better, and using the logic that he has to get worse doesn't make sense in a day and age where players are lasting longer because of training, medicine, and personal care. People can start talking of Welker's decline when there is evidence on the field of it, and so far there has been absolutely no evidence of that. People said the same things when he had the major knee injury a couple of years ago and he came back better, then they said the 2 TE's would eat up his production, and agin he just got better, so until we actually see Welker slowing down and not playing as well it makes no sense to me to attribute decline to him.


    Imo the only reasons for people making these claims is their fascination with draft reviews and numbers and madden ratings, and they flat out ignore his actual play and production, which is off the charts. You simply do not get rid of a player of this caliber in their prime, and that is right where Welker is at. The fans who don't appreciate Welker are morons, plain and simple, he is one of the best players the patriots, and that is obvious, and should be obvious even to the idiot Maddenites who keep ripping on him.
  12. Ivan

    Ivan Rookie

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    I don't see anyone guaranteeing anything, they are just saying he's heading that way, and he clearly is.
  13. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    The problem is there are 8 receivers that have accomplished that feat and 7 aren't yet eligible to be in the Hall yet (except for Brown).

    1. Jerry Rice
    2. Tony Gonzalez
    3. Marvin Harrison
    4. Cris Carter
    5. Tim Brown
    6. Terrell Owens
    7. Isaac Bruce
    8. Hines Ward

    Moss will probably also make this list before his career is over. This many receivers suddenly hitting this mark really highlights the difference in receiving statistics. It also speaks to a coming log jam at the position. It will take quite a bit for Welker to make it.
  14. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    Slow it down paco. Nobody is busting on your boy. I'm just saying that he isn't there yet. If he goes on for the next 10 years at this pace then sure no problem. He's in. The problem is that you can't just assume it and if you do then you have to assume it for others as well. There are another 5 receivers at around Welker's age that already have more catches and yards then he does in their career. Add that to the 8 or so Hall worthy candidates already waiting to get in and you are going to have bevy of WR waiting. There are only 11 WR already in and maybe a dozen or so that could have similar numbers when they are all set and done.
  15. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

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    4 more years like the last 4 and he will be up around 1300 receptions and 14,000 yards. That will top the contemporaries, even Marvin Harrison w. about 1100 catches, by a fair amount.

    And that is ignoring his place as a return man.

    Nobody but perhaps Tim Brown among all contemporary wide receivers who would merit consideration based upon receiving skills alone (so ignoring pseudo WR specialists like Hester) will come remotely close to Wes in all-purpose yards.
  16. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Dont think about quantity, think quality. What is the record for 100+ reception seasons? Rice has 4 and Welker will have 5 after this year.
  17. VJCPatriot

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    21 wide receivers in the hall of fame currently. I expect Moss to be first ballet. TO and Harrison will also get strong consideration.

    I am wondering about TO though - the guy has all the stats but he was also a consistent team cancer. Do voters take that into consideration? The guy had awesome stats and a great receiver on the field but he killed lockerrooms left and right wherever he went!
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  18. stcjones

    stcjones Rookie

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    I don't think he will....if he agrees to a deal after the season is over and sticks around...I would imagine he will get into the Patriots HOF though.....

  19. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think that Wes will get in, because I think passing game stat inflation is going to raise the bar significantly enough that Wes' raw production won't be able to overcome the perception that he's "just" a slot receiver and essentially a system player. I'd like to be proven wrong, though.

    If he leaves after this season, I think that will basically be the end of his chances to make the HOF. He needs Brady as much as Brady needs him.
  20. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If he never catches another pass for the Patriots, he'll still belong in the Patriots HOF
  21. Creative Username

    Creative Username Rookie

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    This is a discussion I had with my dad a couple of weeks ago.

    First off, let me explain that neither I nor my father thinks that he will get in the hall if he leaves New England, because he likely won't produce as much.

    As it stands, he has nearly 700 receptions and 8,000 receiving yards.
    Subtract 100 receptions and 1100 receiving yards (estimates from his Miami years) that gives him 600 receptions and 6,900 receiving yards IN 5 YEARS.
    So assuming we sign him to a 2-3 year deal, and he keeps up his production, he'll end up with around 800 catches and close to 10,000 yards receiving. If we win a SB in that time, I don't think it's debatable. You also have to look at the situation. He will have surpassed Rice's record of 100 catch seasons and I'm willing to bet he'll have another 120 catch season under his belt, surpassing Cris Carter for the most seasons with 120+ catches in a season with three.

    As we all know, the slot machine is not stoppable by man coverage, or zone coverage. If you're having trouble believing this, then you haven't watched him play enough. I remember a play last year against Revis (a.k.a. the "best shutdown corner" in the league) and he gave up something like a 76 yard pass play whilst covering Welker.

    I don't know how the voters decide who is worthy and who is not... But you look at a 5'9, 185 pound receiver with this much production. Maybe I'm biased but he's a lock for me. If not the HOF, then the Patriots HOF for sure. There's no way they could keep him out.
  22. TinhWoodhead

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    do voters look at the numbers of pro bowls?
  23. Boomer B

    Boomer B Rookie

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    Another issue going against Welker is touchdowns. He has only has 34 which is well below what others that are looking to get in have. Moss and Owens are both over 150. Chris Carter at 130. Marvin Harrison at 128. Tim Brown at 102. Isaac Bruce at 91.

    Voters may look at the touchdown stat and say not enough big plays.
  24. Creative Username

    Creative Username Rookie

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    Then voters are idiots.

    If it helps your team win, it's a big play. First downs help your team win. Therefore, first downs=big plays. How many has Welker had since he came here? I'm willing to bet at least 300.
  25. Boomer B

    Boomer B Rookie

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    I'm a Welker fan, but touchdowns are a lot bigger then first downs.

    Who do you think voters would be more impressed by?

    Receiver 1
    Average per season
    80 catches
    1300 yds (16.5 yds per catch)
    10 touchdowns

    Receiver 2
    Average per season
    100 catches
    1050 yds (10.5 yds per catch)
    5 touchdowns

    My guess is they would value Receiver 1 more
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  26. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    That's a load of nonsense. There are some unbelievable receivers not in the HOF. Like Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Gary Clark, Harold Carmichael, Henry Ellard, Andre Reed, Drew Pearson, and Cliff Branch.

    Before we say that Welker's stats blow those guys' out of the water, just remember that QBs back in the day used to consider 3,000 yards to be a really good year. Now the top QBs throw around 5,000 yards. So obviously the #s for receivers is going to be way up there.

    I love Welker and hope he makes it, and I think he might, but to suggest that "only a complete moron" would think that he might not make it is ludicrous.
  27. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So Wilfork splitting time as a rookie to get one ring is the difference?
    Brady lost on that 18-0 team, and he threw that pass.
    Jose can you see?
  28. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that Welker will long be considered as a very tough player, but he isn't anywhere near HOF status; at least not yet anyway.

    3-4 more incredible seasons would make it a very different conversation.
  29. Nehalem

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    Unfortunately, I think his knee injury may hurt his case

    If he had 5 100+ catch season in a row (likely 6 after this one) that might be his best case.

    Wes Welker is a great player, but unfortunately for him he wasted 3 seasons early in his career and there are a lot of great WRs now.

    You also have to worry about if he stays with the Patriots people arguing that Brady just made him look good.
  30. Palm Beach Pats Fan

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    Three more years after this one, at his NE averages, actually gets him up to over 950 catches and over 11,500 receiving yards for his career. Add 2 more years at 1/2 production, it's 1050 catches and 12,500 yards.

    His all- purpose yards would exceed 20,000, which is unprecedented for WRs not named Jerry Rice.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
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